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Thread: Wheeler Historic Farm, illegal signs

  1. #1
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    So, I got a response from a Mr. Tsakalos about the illegal signage, as well as a few pieces of correspondence about the situation.

    Here it is.

    Mr. (THX):

    Your email to the folks at recreation has made its way to me. I appreciate your observations and we are retooling our ordinances and that process should alleviate any concerns you have raised. Our approach is not limited to the signs that you have complained about but encompasses a county-wide review. It will take some time, but you may contact me directly with any specific questions. Thanks for bringing this matter to our attention.

    From: Jeff Thorpe
    Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:49 PM
    To: Tyke Tsakalos
    Subject: FW: park sign prohibiting firearms

    [size= ]
    TJ,
    Here is the email we discussed. The original complaint is from (THX).
    Jeff

    Jeffrey H Thorpe
    Deputy District Attorney
    Office of the District Attorney
    2001 South State Street S3600
    Salt Lake City, Utah 84190-1210

    (801)468-2645
    jthorpe@slco.org
    http://www.districtattorney.slco.org

    CONFIDENTIAL: This electronic message, including any and all attachments, is confidential. This message is intended only for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply electronic mail and delete the original message. Thank you.



    From: Wayne Johnson (P&R)
    Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:04 AM
    To: Jeff Thorpe
    Subject: FW: sign.jpg

    [size= ]
    Jeff

    Your thoughts on the issue below?

    Wayne

    From: Glenn L Cox
    Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:43 AM
    To: Wayne Johnson (P&R)
    Subject: RE: sign.jpg

    [size= ]
    Wayne,

    From my basic understanding of laws and ordinances, if an ordinance contradicts a state statute then the statute is the predominating rule of law. I would have to concede the point to Mr. THX.

    My question, however, is why does he (Mr. THX) have his panties in a bunch about the signage and the ordinance? What’s his purpose in contesting the applicability of the ordinance?

    Glenn

    From: Wayne Johnson (P&R)
    Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:14 PM
    To: Michele Nekota ; Kristin Riker ; Martin Jensen; Glenn L Cox
    Subject: RE: sign.jpg

    [size= ]
    Glenn

    Your thoughts on the contradiction between County and State code? (See below)

    Wayne

    This is the most recent county ordinance
    13.04.230 Firearms and explosives prohibited--Exception.
    No person within a park shall carry or discharge any firearms, firecrackers, rockets, torpedoes, powder, or any other fireworks or explosives except persons who have obtained a special permit from the mayor to put on a fireworks show, in which event the person conducting the display shall be trained in fireworks pyrotechnics. (For other events, see Section 13.04.270.)
    (Ord. 1473 (part), 2001: prior code § 17-2-11)


    From: Wayne Johnson (P&R)
    Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:07 PM
    To: Michele Nekota ; Kristin Riker ; Martin Jensen; Hollis Robison
    Subject: FW: sign.jpg

    [size= ]
    Whoops………….the rest below

    From: Wayne Johnson (P&R)
    Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:52 PM
    To: Michele Nekota ; Kristin Riker ; Martin Jensen; Hollis Robison
    Subject: FW: sign.jpg

    [size= ]
    This a picture of standard park regulation signs. It states no archery or firearms. It should say “no discharge of…..” This will be a problem due to the number of signs installed . The intent is to prohibit shooting, not carrying of. To my knowledge, there have been no attempts to prohibit carrying firearms by law enforcement or anyone else. This is the first complaint regarding the wording and the signs have been up for over a year. If necessary, we could place a “no discharge of” sticker above the offending verbiage if necessary.

    Wayne





  2. #2
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Apparently though, Mr. Cox believes that any citizen who bothers to point out that they are posting illegal signs has their "panties in a bunch"

  3. #3
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    What a maroon! Mr Cox needs a lesson in public records.

  4. #4
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    Ok, who is who here? Wanye? What is his position? How can we help him realize that we are defenders of freedom from people like him. He is suffering from Third World mentally, let me explain.

    My ex-wife is from Brazil and she told me the following story that happen to her. She would take a crowded bus to work in downtown Rio, the creepy guys would either picth or rub up against her and other women (while they were excited.) She would not stand for it and say in a loud voice, you sick-o what is your probelm? Well, the Creep would turn the table and act like he did nothing wrong and started to make her sound like the "crazy one." He would say, hey lady you wish I would touch you, you need that much attention to make a scene on the bus? Get a life, he would say!

    Sounds familiar? Panties in a bunch that sounds real professional doesn't it? Look at the difference between his email and that of the DA.





  5. #5
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm not entirely sure who is who, but I haven't sent an email back yet.

    I can't figure out the best way to address Mr. Cox lack of professionalism.

    I don't believe Mr. Tsakalos meant to send the other correspondences, but since they were released, now I know how Mr. Cox thinks of me.

    It seems that Mr. Cox is in records of some sort.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Utah_Patriot's Avatar
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    Maybe the media could exploit Mr. Cox lack of professionalism. I would love to see what Mr. Cox has to say about his comment.



    Thanks

    801-448-7574
    Zach
    8014487574
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

  7. #7
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    thx997303 wrote:
    Yeah, I'm not entirely sure who is who, but I haven't sent an email back yet.

    I can't figure out the best way to address Mr. Cox lack of professionalism.

    I don't believe Mr. Tsakalos meant to send the other correspondences, but since they were released, now I know how Mr. Cox thinks of me.

    It seems that Mr. Cox is in records of some sort.
    suggestions for reply could include:

    Acknowledging his allegation that you wear panties and that they are uncomfortable in that they are "in a bunch". Suggesting that whether you wear boxers, briefs, or panties is absolutely none of his concern.

    Asking what specifically that has to do with your inquiry regarding signs posted claiming to prohibit activity that is in fact legal.

    As a helper...
    I have seen many on a beach or at a pool that discretely hook a finger under a leg opening and UN-BUNCH THE PANTIES!!!!!!!!! LOL
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  8. #8
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    Glenn asks "What’s his purpose in contesting the applicability of the ordinance?". Hello? I say mainly to educate the uneducated. We know we are within our rights to carry there but others obviously don't. I always open carried there with no problem, but that's not the point. One last thing is I love how Wayne called it "offending verbiage". I call it illegal verbiage. Good job THX.

  9. #9
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    I sent this in response to Mr. Tsakalos' email.

    Mr. Tsakalos:

    Thank you for the response, and I appreciate the effort you are taking to correct the issue.
    It seems that some of your co workers need a primer in professionalism. It would be appreciated if you would let Mr. Cox know that the reason I have my "panties in a bunch about the signage and the ordinance" and my "purpose in contesting the applicability of the ordinance" is, If I have to follow the law, so does the county.
    It is through the apathy of the public that we have ended up in the mess that our country is in today. Government has been allowed to run wild and largely uncontested for too long and it is time for that to stop. But it can't be immediately affected at the highest levels, it must start with the cities and counties, and then move on to the state and federal levels.
    Therefore, when I see a department within a county infringing on basic human rights as enumerated by the constitution, it is my duty to take reasonable measures to correct the problem.
    Recently, the city of Logan was found to have illegal firearms ordinances on the books, and through the efforts of others like myself, the ordinances have since been removed.
    Similarly, the Salt Lake International Airport had signs to the same effect, those were also removed due to similar efforts.
    Thank you again for your help in this matter, and I look forward to the absence of such signage at my next visit to Wheeler Historic Farm.

    Sincerely:
    (THX)

    P.S. I apologize for the lateness of my reply. I am currently on active duty and it is a bear to find the time for such things.

    --- On Thu, 8/13/09, Tyke Tsakalos <TTsakalos@slco.org> wrote:

    From: Tyke Tsakalos <TTsakalos@slco.org>
    Subject: RE: park sign prohibiting firearms
    To: sniperthx1@yahoo.com
    Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 3:49 PM

    Mr. (THX):

    Your email to the folks at recreation has made its way to me. I appreciate your observations and we are retooling our ordinances and that process should alleviate any concerns you have raised. Our approach is not limited to the signs that you have complained about but encompasses a county-wide review. It will take some time, but you may contact me directly with any specific questions. Thanks for bringing this matter to our attention.



  10. #10
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    More results will occur when follow-up happens. Although you are not a formal spokesman for the gun carrying populace, I would suggest you respond and informTyke we will followup in 3 month to see what stepshe has takenin their review of the county. I wish I could have more faith in Tykes words butifthe county isnot followed up on, I think the review will disappear with the budget cuts.

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