• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Sebewaing police advised NOT TO OPEN CARRY

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
imported post

h2ofowl wrote:
i did refer the pd to this sight to review the info on open carry but until they do and until they talk to the local prosecutor the officer i know and talked to still advised not to open carry until they look into the law he or they know nothing about as of yet.
i will be dropping off the info i got from the portage picnic from you autosurgeon
to them today...
I suggest that you employ proper punctuation, spelling, sentence and paragraph spacing, whether you are posting here, or writing to an individual off-board.

If you cannot be bothered to take the time to do so, why should anyone A) want to take the time to decipher what you are trying to say, and B) think of you as anything other than an uneducated rube?
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
imported post

I must admit that I cringed when I first read H2OFOWL's post. I say this only because of his question concerning a "new law" regarding OC. However, I do realize that he did quite explicitly state that he is not very good at this sort of thing [contacting the police department]. Word to others who feel this way: post here for advice first.

I also don't fault the police department; I believe they answered the question as asked. I appreciate that the chief took the time to respond to subsequent communication, and even acknowledged that OC is legal.

I guess we need to remind new people here that we do not suggest calling the police department or to ask friendly LEOs what their opinion is. I understand that people do not want to deal with the "hassle" of a LEO confrontation or otherwise face the possibility of being arrested. However, I once again argue that a person could be challenged by anyone at anytime... that's just the way it is folks.

"Newbies" need to take the time to see that there is no such thing as a guarantee that the police and citizens in general will acknowledge your right to OC... that's just the way it is. There are people such as myself who, although OCing everyday for over 2 years, have yet to be challenged by a police officer. There are others here who have been challenged the first or second time OCing. Are the police where I OC any more knowledgeable than the police elsewhere? I don't really think so considering that the same police department where I OC without an issue is also the same police department that has gone out of their way to harass one member here. I can point to no logical reason for them acting differently to different people.

I hope H202fowl sticks around; I think all of us have taken umbrage at a posting or two, feeling that we were subjected to an unwarranted attack. The nature of this sort of communication lends itself to such interpretations. If he does stick around, though, I think he will discover that this is a knowledgeable group of people who are here to help people exercise the RKBA.

I will also strongly suggest to anyone contemplating a call to their local PD that they access the website first. By using the accumulated knowledge here by asking how a letter or call should be worded, one can avoid the type of response that the poster experienced.

Carry on...
 

KittyBomb

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
32
Location
Michigan
imported post

springerdave wrote:
No crap, H2o should have read the stickies, period. Now maybe he will or maybe not. Sarcasm does have a place in our posts, but maybe we should hold off just a little till we know if someone is a total dolt or just so new that they need a little grooming. H2o may have turned out to be one of our greatest allies or he may just go away mad. This guy was asking for help and maybe he did take the lazy way to get it when he solicited from the forum and also from the police department, but he has only 5 posts. No way to know if he actually has the potential to become a strong, active member yet. I say hold off on the dumping until you find out that a poster is a total jerk and then let him have it. Want to find total jerks go over to that other forum and read a little, you'll find them there. Venator, I read his post and nowhere did he say that it was your fight. He referred to this cause and i didn't get that he thought it was yours alone. The poster also stated that he was not good at approaching or teaching people, given time this may change. Other newbees have been automatically been referred to the stickies, as this one should have been as well. I know that it can become old, but veteran members should just do it, refer the new guys to the stickies and then wait. We are all about education and all, right? When I first started I made a lot of mistakes, now I hope they are fewer. I wonder who here knew it all right from the get go? Rant off.springerdave.
I know I was pretty shy when I made my first post, I had actually contacted a person here from my local area asking him specifics about any LEO encounters in my town.
I first read EVERY post in the List your OC experiences and every post in the Wash, Rinse, Repeat threads before I made any posts because I really didn't want to jump in asking silly questions.

I had been at another forum unrelated to firearms a few years ago and got completely flamed and that did made me quite gun shy, so to speak, about making posts on forums unless I had done a lot of research on the topics covered.

As I stated in my first post here, I only just very recently found out that OCing is legal in Michigan for all legal gun owners and found this site through an article about an OC picnic.

You all have been very helpful and informative to me and I thank you.
 

h2ofowl

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
35
Location
gobles, Michigan, USA
imported post

so BB people have to be highly educated for you to respect them?Should everyone post there level of education on their posts so you can decide if you want to read them or not,hate for you to have to waste your education by reading some rubes post.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

h2ofowl wrote:
so BB people have to be highly educated for you to respect them?Should everyone post there level of education on their posts so you can decide if you want to read them or not,hate for you to have to waste your education by reading some rubes post.
Have you contacted the Chief yet? What did he say when you straightened out their mistake about OC?
 

h2ofowl

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
35
Location
gobles, Michigan, USA
imported post

Nothing was said about a NEW LAW! I asked Tim, the officer on the phone if he knew it was legal to open carry in mich.He then asked what open carry was.After i explained that to him he told me flat out "you can't do that here it is illegal".
So i take the chiefs response as he was defending the officer's ( Tim E.) knowledge of the laws he is trying to uphold.
Thanks Springer for the defense.
Sorry for the issues and any inconvenience asking for help from the more experienced members here has created.I know now not to ask again!I just thought the explanation to law enforcement on oc would be better explained and easier to understand coming from someone with more knowledge on the oc law then i have.
I just assumed that help from the directors of this forum and or group was available to those of us needing to be educated (so BB will read our posts) on the oc laws so we too can learn and offer to help the cause and the rights for those who wish to legally carry a firearm. Sorry for the assumption!
I did oc while i was there and while working the outdoor show for 2 days was asked how i can legally do that.I did not however try to give any explanation to any of the vendors or attendees of the show because i am just an uneducated rube to some and did not want to give out any misinformation.
As i become better educated on the do's and dont's of oc i will try to educate people interested in their rights to legally open carry.
 

T Vance

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
2,482
Location
Not on this website, USA
imported post

If you are not sure about certain aspects of OCing, and are questions about just do what you did and not answer. You could give them a response like "I'm sorry, but I am new to this and wouldn't want to misinform you, but there is a website called opencarry.org that should be able to answer any questions you might have".

Obviosuly there has been some miscommunication here, don't feel likeyou can't ask any questions, but you can't expect people to do certain things for you either. This is a grass roots movement and it requires people to take their own initiative to get some things accomplished. So lets all move forward and help the OC movement.

Welcome H20fowl!
 

T Vance

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
2,482
Location
Not on this website, USA
imported post

KittyBomb wrote:
I had been at another forum unrelated to firearms a few years ago and got completely flamed and that did made me quite gun shy, so to speak
I've been to gun shops that have made me feel like that too!
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
imported post

T Vance wrote:
KittyBomb wrote:
I had been at another forum unrelated to firearms a few years ago and got completely flamed and that did made me quite gun shy, so to speak
I've been to gun shops that have made me feel like that too!
I have yet to find a dedicated Gun Shop that is OC-friendly.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

T Vance wrote:
Schupach's in Jackson is. They have a OC sticker on the door too thanks to Cabman!

The gun shop in Bath and Hample's in Traverse City have OC stickers on their doors. I have to check on Classic Arms in Lansing, I gave them one but I don't know if they have it up yet. All three of these shops are OC friendly.

Check out the OC friendly businesses we have posted on the events thread.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

h2ofowl wrote:
Nothing was said about a NEW LAW! I asked Tim, the officer on the phone if he knew it was legal to open carry in mich.He then asked what open carry was.After i explained that to him he told me flat out "you can't do that here it is illegal".
So i take the chiefs response as he was defending the officer's ( Tim E.) knowledge of the laws he is trying to uphold.
Thanks Springer for the defense.
Sorry for the issues and any inconvenience asking for help from the more experienced members here has created.I know now not to ask again!I just thought the explanation to law enforcement on oc would be better explained and easier to understand coming from someone with more knowledge on the oc law then i have.
I just assumed that help from the directors of this forum and or group was available to those of us needing to be educated (so BB will read our posts) on the oc laws so we too can learn and offer to help the cause and the rights for those who wish to legally carry a firearm. Sorry for the assumption!
I did oc while i was there and while working the outdoor show for 2 days was asked how i can legally do that.I did not however try to give any explanation to any of the vendors or attendees of the show because i am just an uneducated rube to some and did not want to give out any misinformation.
As i become better educated on the do's and dont's of oc i will try to educate people interested in their rights to legally open carry.
I will point out that you did have your request meet, information was offered to you, and OC information was sent to the Chief by aMOCcoordinator. If there is a discrepancy between you and what the Chief stated I suggest you inquire further into the matter. MOC really can't do much more than we already have, since none of ourrepresentatives werepresent during the conversation.

If MOC can be of further assistance please ask. I would also invite you to become a paying member so you can vote on and/or run for MOC office.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
imported post

h2ofowl wrote:
so BB people have to be highly educated for you to respect them?Should everyone post there level of education on their posts so you can decide if you want to read them or not,hate for you to have to waste your education by reading some rubes post.
Ah, yes, the straw man argument - mention education and respect- neither term was used by me.

You seem to be all about gimme, gimme, gimme, with little or no respect for others.

You get respect when you show it.
 

autosurgeon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
3,831
Location
Lawrence, Michigan, United States
imported post

PDinDetroit wrote:
T Vance wrote:
KittyBomb wrote:
I had been at another forum unrelated to firearms a few years ago and got completely flamed and that did made me quite gun shy, so to speak
I've been to gun shops that have made me feel like that too!
I have yet to find a dedicated Gun Shop that is OC-friendly.
On Target in Kzoo is now ... I have OCed while having a lengthy reloading discussion with the owner... They used to be against it but work of some of the members on here changed their mind!
 

h2ofowl

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
35
Location
gobles, Michigan, USA
imported post

When do you show it BB.APPARENTLY not from your first impression of people,maybe
after you find out their level of education?
Gimme-I didn't ask for anything to be given to me but some help to educate the pd on something i know as little about as what they did.
Don't ask for respect after you make rude comments to someone then you want them to show you respect,what has your level of education taught you on being a hypocrite?
I suggest you learn to read and understand the post's being made before you try to use your education to make you feel more intelligent then us rubes as you put it!
To show my respect to this forum and to those who are helping this cause, my comments to you are now over so carry on if you wish.
 

springerdave

Regular Member
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
665
Location
Northern lower & Keweenaw area, Michigan, USA
imported post

BB62 wrote: Idaho Born wrote:
Idaho Corsair -

Yes, I am a cop - wasn't trying to hide it...
Welcome to OCDO!!

Having seen a few LEOs recently take their ball and go home, whatever you do, don't get unduly worked up by those here ("here" being the board, not this thread) who lack nuance or who may beinarticulate on the subject of LEOs.

P.S. - A good way to see subjects across the US is to click on the main discussion forum, then click "Recent".

Again, welcome.

Advice we can all use,BB62.springerdave.
 

KittyBomb

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
32
Location
Michigan
imported post

T Vance wrote:
KittyBomb wrote:
I had been at another forum unrelated to firearms a few years ago and got completely flamed and that did made me quite gun shy, so to speak
I've been to gun shops that have made me feel like that too!
I know that feeling as well, the first time I went to buy my very first handgun I went to a gun store with cash money to spend and the permit to purchase. I was asking to see a certain gun in the showcase and he said something about me having PMS (???). He completely disregarded me as a serious customer and went back to talking with a guy who he was just BSing with when I came in. He made me feel like he didn't really want to sell a gun to a woman so I left. Needless to say he lost an actual paying customer then. I was not completely unknowledgeable about guns either, I had been doing a lot of research on which would best suit my needs, I even had a few in mind when I went to buy my first gun. I went on to Target Sports in Royal Oak after that and was treated with respect, not condecended to and they sold me two guns that year, one that day and another a few months later.
 
Top