My self defense stories

Thoreau · Nov 11, 2009

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Klown wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

In Virginia making a deliberate show of your CCd gun may bring you a brandishing charge - same if putting your hand on it.

Reaching inside you coat or behind your back with non-dominate hand (no weapon there) wont - leaving dominate hand free to move if needed.

OC avoids all of these particular problems.

Yata hey

Click to expand...

Not in Arizona where the OP is from:

A.R.S. §13-421. Justification; defensive display of a firearm; definition

A. The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.
B. This section does not apply to a person who:
1. Intentionally provokes another person to use or attempt to use unlawful physical force.
2. Uses a firearm during the commission of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706 or violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03.
C. This section does not require the defensive display of a firearm before the use of physical force or the threat of physical force by a person who is otherwise justified in the use or threatened use of physical force.
D. For the purposes of this section, "defensive display of a firearm" includes:
1. Verbally informing another person that the person possesses or has available a firearm.
2. Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.
3. Placing the person's hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.

IANAL but I dont think road rage would be a justifiable cause for this. I dont believe there is a road rage law only the violations that come with it (i.e reckless driving). Although one could argue on the whole vehicular aggravated assault thing. But I dont have the funds to be a test case so I probably won't be trying this one on road rage incidents. Glad all went well Dragon

The OP doesn't specify, but I very much doubt the timing matches up for the above law to apply since it didn't go into effect until 42 days ago (September 30th.) Prior to that, there was no such thing as justified defensive display. If you so much as touched the weapon, you sure as hell better have shot the person, otherwise there was no justification.

SlackwareRobert · Nov 11, 2009

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Gotta go with fail on #1 also, Now if he is driving a semi that could seriously
do some damage to you and car you have a little more wiggle room.
But encroaching isn't a brandishing defense.

#2 - if he is ordering the dog to attack, shoot the dog, the next victim won't have
a gun to defend themselves. How do you know onstar doesn't sense the danger
and lower your window remotely, or the window regulator jumps track and drops.
Vicious dog attacking at owners orders, he might get the double tab himself.
But i'm a cat person so have no problem with removing Vicks next money maker.
If it's good enough for officer friendly it's good enough for me.:banghead:

#3 Lassie should have known better. I am surprised with shots fired they still
took their time. I would think the mere temptation to harass someone who
dares have a gun and won't use it on them would be to much to pass up.

But since you are alive and not in jail you can't find much fault. Just added
experience for future encounters.

Phoenix David · Nov 12, 2009

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S1 - IMO bad move. "Hello 911 do you have an emergency?" "Yes I am behind this car on the I-17 and there is this dude pointing a gun at cars!!!"

S2 - IMO probably a bad legal move, but I was not sure was the dog's head inside your car or just at the glass trying to get in? If it's head was inside the car would have been good to go on shooting it.

S3 IMO good move but wrong caliber. .380 is for aluminum cans, don't shoot at any steel cans cause they will just bounce off

simmonsjoe · Nov 12, 2009

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Phoenix David wrote:

S3 IMO good move but wrong caliber. .380 is for aluminum cans, don't shoot at any steel cans cause they will just bounce off

Please. The .380 is insufficient argument is a little played with the newest bullet technology.

Try
Cor-Bon 90g JHP
Cor-Bon 80g DPX
or if you can't shoot hot loads in your pistol
Federal 90g JHP

Phoenix David · Nov 12, 2009

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simmonsjoe wrote:

Phoenix David wrote:

S3 IMO good move but wrong caliber. .380 is for aluminum cans, don't shoot at any steel cans cause they will just bounce off

Click to expand...

Please. The .380 is insufficient argument is a little played with the newest bullet technology.

Try
Cor-Bon 90g JHP
Cor-Bon 80g DPX
or if you can't shoot hot loads in your pistol
Federal 90g JHP

The limited research I have done on the issue just makes it IMO a sub standard defense round. As I don't own anything in a .380 it kind of makes it a moot point but my personal power floor is .9mm/38+P.

We could discuss this for days but it's just my opinion and worth every penny you paid for it

simmonsjoe · Nov 12, 2009

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.38 sp +P has a muzzle energy of 250-270 ft-lbs
.380 Auto(standard pressure) has a M.E. of 220 ft-lbs
.380 Auto +P has a M. E. of 285 ft-lbs

So your snubby gives you:
5shot x270 = 1,350 ft-lbs of energy to transmit to your target.
6shot x 270 = 1,620 ft-lbs

and My 6+1 auto gives me:
7shots x 220 = 1,540 ft-lbs
7shots x 285 = 1,995 ft-lbs

The benefit of a snubby is reliability, however the cylinder gap with snub barrel
limits the velocity of the round.

You will notice a .380 +P has more kenetic energy than a .38spl +P
Yeah, that is right. More power plus 2 more rounds.
Don't let the tiny case fool you. New powders, new bullets, allow performance out of a solid chamber/barrel that snubbys can't match with their cylinder gap.

The only way a .38 can get more power is the longer barrel of a full size revolver(4").
This negates the argument because a 4" revolver is no longer a conceal piece so comparing it to .380 auto is apple to oranges. You would now have to look at a full size auto, meaning at least a 9mm Luger cartridge. The 9mm has superior ballistics to a .38spl.

So your opinion was valid 10 years ago, but technology changes.

Ezrider · Nov 13, 2009

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in the first story you should have pulled over or turned off the road to let the guy around you if he would have followed you and gotten out of his car you probably would have been justified to pull your weapon. when faced with an aggressive driver its best to find a way to let them pass you and then put some distance between you and them.

in the second two story's i feel your actions were reasonable.

smash29 · Nov 16, 2009

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simmonsjoe wrote:

.38 sp +P has a muzzle energy of 250-270 ft-lbs
.380 Auto(standard pressure) has a M.E. of 220 ft-lbs
.380 Auto +P has a M. E. of 285 ft-lbs

You will notice a .380 +P has more kenetic energy than a .38spl +P
Yeah, that is right. More power plus 2 more rounds.
Don't let the tiny case fool you. New powders, new bullets, allow performance out of a solid chamber/barrel that snubbys can't match with their cylinder gap.

I was made fun of when I bought my "cute" Kahr P380 and was told I should've bought a .38 snubbie instead because the only way the .380 would work was if the BG died oflaughter when I pulled it.

A snubbie is too chunky for my intended use and I suck when it comes to shooting.38 Special +P loads so I'll live with the 20-30 less ft-lbs the standard .380 offers and be happy that I'll be much more likely to hit what I'm aiming at.

okboomer · Nov 16, 2009

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smash29 wrote:

I was made fun of when I bought my "cute" Kahr P380 and was told I should've bought a .38 snubbie instead because the only way the .380 would work was if the BG died oflaughter when I pulled it.

Just a thought... two to the chest, one to the head, and if they don't stop, repeat until they do

Enough lead in the heart cloggs the function, enough lead on the brain, same result. YMMV

UtahJarhead · Nov 16, 2009

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okboomer wrote:

smash29 wrote:

I was made fun of when I bought my "cute" Kahr P380 and was told I should've bought a .38 snubbie instead because the only way the .380 would work was if the BG died oflaughter when I pulled it.

Click to expand...

Just a thought... two to the chest, one to the head, and if they don't stop, repeat until they do

Enough lead in the heart cloggs the function, enough lead on the brain, same result. YMMV

We were taught the same in the Corps! 2 to stop them, 1 to drop them.

Streetbikerr6 · Nov 19, 2009

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Lol just being comedic and no ill-will toward dragonfly but after your first scenerio about flashing the gun to the driver behind you I thought the next two scenerios were going to play out like this...

The second time I was in a drive thru line waiting to order when a.... stupid bitch was taking to long to order her number 7 so I said bitch hurry your ass up or your going to get a order of lead in your face!!

The 3rd time I was at home and was in my living room with the front door open, when I heard a bicycle crash at the end of my walk. I saw it was the 5 yr old boy... so i pulled out my gun and said, damnit boyscout!S top crying!take your cookies and get outta here or Imma put a hole through that merit badge of yours!!

But in all seriousness, it takes a lot of self-control not to want to stop a driver like that behind him with a quick flash of a gun, best thing to do in that scenerio is to just pull over and let him pass, if he pulls over as well looking for a fight, well then he messed with the wrong driver. The other 2 stories though were quite justifiable... *depending on the state you live in*!!

crotalus01 · Nov 28, 2009

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I wouldnt have done what you did in your first story, but people here need to understand that "brandishing" is State by State. Here in Tennessee there is no "brandishing" as we have a Handgun Carry Permit - it would be technically legal to walk around with the gun in your hand all day. Nothing in TN law that says exactly how I may carry my gun, only that I may carry it with a permit.

Story number 2, had that been me there would have been a dead dog involved in the telling.

Story 3 I would have done the same.

My self defense stories

Thoreau

Regular Member

SlackwareRobert

Regular Member

Phoenix David

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simmonsjoe

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Phoenix David

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simmonsjoe

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Ezrider

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smash29

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okboomer

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UtahJarhead

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Streetbikerr6

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crotalus01

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