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Thread: CPL if it expires ?

  1. #1
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    Article published at MonroeNews.com on Aug 15, 2009
    Londo: Guns were for protection from wild animals

    Handguns found inside the pickup truck of former Monroe County Administrator Charles A. Londo were secured in cases and had been used to protect himself from predatory animals while he hunted in the wilds of the Upper Peninsula, police records show.
    Mr. Londo, who for years oversaw the multimillion dollar financial system of Monroe County and was supervisor to its department heads, freely admitted to police that he had firearms in his truck when he was pulled over for driving around train crossing gates Wednesday night.
    But his permit to transport them legally expired months ago and the 62-year-old former county official said in a statement to police officials that he is a sportsman who simply forgot to remove the guns from his vehicle after he returned from a recent trip to the Upper Peninsula.
    "I have no particular excuse for leaving the weapons in my vehicle," Mr. Londo wrote in a statement submitted to the Monroe County Prosecutor’s Office. "I spend a lot of time in the bush and have the weapons for my own personal protection while in the woods to protect myself from predatory animals, i.e. wolves, bear, etc."
    The statement and Michigan State Police report were obtained by The Evening News through the Freedom of Information Act. Mr. Londo of Monroe Township was arraigned Friday before First District Judge Terrence Bronson on one count of carrying concealed weapon, a felony with a maximum penalty of five years in prison. He was released on a personal bond.
    Reached Friday night, Mr. Londo declined to discuss particulars of the case because it is pending. However, he did say that the state police handled the situation well. Although he wasn’t arrested the night he was pulled over, Mr. Londo was handcuffed and taken to the Monroe post on Jones Ave. for questioning.
    "I’m not going to knock anybody for doing their job," Mr. Londo said Friday night. "They were very professional. I understand they have a job to do, and they did it very well. I can’t say enough about their professionalism and courtesy."
    Mr. Londo did say that being placed in that type of situation gave him a "different kind of feeling" and he hopes to resolve it soon through the proper legal channels. He said he has not driven that truck for weeks before that night.
    "Now it’s up to the courts to determine what happens," he added.
    Trooper Michael Peterson pulled over the 1997 Ford pickup around 9 p.m. at LaPlaisance and Dunbar Rds. when it drove around the crossing arm that was in the process of closing, reports said. Mr. Londo was ticketed for that violation.
    During his routine background check, Trooper Peterson discovered that Mr. Londo had a CCW permit that expired in January. When asked if he had firearms in the vehicle, Mr. Londo said that he did and he forgot to remove them.
    The trooper found a .22-caliber, a 9mm, a .38-caliber revolver and a .32-caliber pistol. All four, including ammunition, were in three cases that were stacked behind the driver’s seat, reports said.
    After he made a statement to police and submitted a written statement, Mr. Londo was released.
    "I realize that this is a violation of the CCW law and I apologize," he wrote.
    Mr. Londo was the chief financial officer for the county for 15 years before the Monroe County Board of Commissioners declined to renew his contract last month.


    [line]
    He {LONDO} was CFO and ran county inocent or guity ?



    var adCode = "Ray Kisonas , last modified August 14. 2009 4:11PM

    Former Monroe County Administrator Charles A. Londo was expected to be charged this morning with a weapons violation felony after police reportedly found four handguns in his vehicle during a traffic stop Wednesday night.


    Mr. Londo, 62, whose contract as the county's chief financial officer expired in July, was pulled over around 9 p.m. at E. Dunbar and LaPlaisance Rds. when he reportedly drove around a train crossing gate that had been lowered.


    A Michigan State Police trooper from the Monroe post spotted the violation and stopped his vehicle. The trooper noticed Mr. Londo had an expired concealed pistol license, commonly called a carrying concealed weapon permit, or CCW. It expired in January.


    The trooper asked Mr. Londo if he had any firearms in the vehicle and the former county official said he had four pistols. Police officials said the guns were not loaded but ammunition was found inside the truck.


    The four guns were each in locked cases, but were reachable by Mr. Londo, he told The Evening News. He is being represented by Monroe attorneys William Godfroy and C.J. Horkey, who declined to comment.


    The trooper seized the guns and took Mr. Londo to the state police post on Jones Ave. where he was questioned. He was not arrested, authorities said, and was allowed to leave.


    Police said that Mr. Londo did take a preliminary breath test to measure alcohol in his system, but the results were below the legal level of .08. He is not facing any drinking and driving charges, officials reported. Mr. Londo reportedly was on his way home from a golf outing.


    A violation of concealed weapons law is a felony punishable of up to five years in prison. It also carries a $2,500 fine. Mr. Londo was ticketed for disobeying a railroad crossing sign, a civil infraction.


    The Monroe County Prosecutor's Office issued the warrant this morning and Mr. Londo was expected to be arraigned in First District Court.


    Mr. Londo was the chief financial officer for Monroe County for 15 years before the county's board of commissioners in a 5-4 vote decided not to renew his contract, which meant he was out of a job.


    Following the vote, board Chairman William Sisk said that Mr. Londo lost credibility with county employees, which led to the ouster. Over the years, the county board gave Mr. Londo high marks for his financial abilities. The county board is in the process of hiring a replacement and concluded the final of three interviews Thursday afternoon.


    Evening News staff writer Joshua Kennedy contributed to this report


  2. #2
    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    Am I missing something here, it sounds like he was transporting them legally, unloaded and in a case in the back of the vehicle... At least that's what I got out of it...

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    X2

    "To transport a pistol unloaded and in a container in a trunk of a vehicle or, if the vehicle has no trunk, the pistol is in a container and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle, provided that the pistol is being transported for a lawful purpose."



    i don't think the article stated if the guns were loaded or not. Transporting a loaded pistol would violate the statute.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    And this is why you do not discuss the contents of your vehicle nor allow the police to search your vehicle on a traffic stop!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    And renew your permit before it expires!springerdave.

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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    lapeer20m wrote:
    X2

    "To transport a pistol unloaded and in a container in a trunk of a vehicle or, if the vehicle has no trunk, the pistol is in a container and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle, provided that the pistol is being transported for a lawful purpose."



    i don't think the article stated if the guns were loaded or not. Transporting a loaded pistol would violate the statute.
    The trooper asked Mr. Londo if he had any firearms in the vehicle and the former county official said he had four pistols. Police officials said the guns were not loaded but ammunition was found inside the truck.

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    So it sounds like to me that he did not commit a crime.

  8. #8
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Since the vehicle is a pickup, he can have the pistols in the
    passenger compartment, but they can not be readily accessible.
    The courts have ruled that behind the driver's seat is "readily
    accessible". Besides that, in his letter he admits that he knew
    that what he did was a violation of the CCW law.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    DrTodd wrote:
    Since the vehicle is a pickup, he can have the pistols in the
    passenger compartment, but they can not be readily accessible.
    The courts have ruled that behind the driver's seat is "readily
    accessible". Besides that, in his letter he admits that he knew
    that what he did was a violation of the CCW law.
    The police may have also "talked" him into believing he commited a crime.

  10. #10
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    DrTodd wrote:
    Since the vehicle is a pickup, he can have the pistols in the
    passenger compartment, but they can not be readily accessible.
    The courts have ruled that behind the driver's seat is "readily
    accessible". Besides that, in his letter he admits that he knew
    that what he did was a violation of the CCW law.
    The police may have also "talked" him into believing he committed
    a crime.
    It is very probable that they did. Although it appears that he did
    violate the ccw law, any possible defense that he could have averred
    is pretty much destroyed by admitting he violated the law. I guess
    he never saw the "Don't talk to the police video". He probably
    thought that the police were there to help him and didn't realize
    that the charge would be a felony. There is a very important lesson
    in here for us: Don't talk to the police and don't make any statements
    after the fact!
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  11. #11
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    And this is why you do not discuss the contents of your vehicle nor allow the police to search your vehicle on a traffic stop!
    "Officer I do not wish to discuss the contents of my vehicle" "Now if they is anything else am I free to go?"

    REMEMBER people, you DO NOT have to answer questions from the police and your refusal to do so IS NOT probable cause.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Here, here!

  13. #13
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    Never disregard a traffic control device ![ train crossing gate ]

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    I agree that he didn't commit a crime, but it sounds like he did violate a statue. Let's repeal the transport restrictions and move on.


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    DrTodd wrote:
    Since the vehicle is a pickup, he can have the pistols in the
    passenger compartment, but they can not be readily accessible.
    The courts have ruled that behind the driver's seat is "readily
    accessible". Besides that, in his letter he admits that he knew
    that what he did was a violation of the CCW law.
    I don't mean to sound stupid here but were else am I suppose to put them in my pickup since behind the seat is the only place they'll fit. I can't fit a case handgun under the seat and we know the glove box is out. So were else in the cab would I transport them not "readily accessible". Here's to repealing the transport restictions.

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    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    And this is why you do not discuss the contents of your vehicle nor allow the police to search your vehicle on a traffic stop!
    "Officer I do not wish to discuss the contents of my vehicle"* "Now if they is anything else am I free to go?"*

    REMEMBER people, you DO NOT have to answer questions from the police and your refusal to do so IS NOT probable cause.
    While this may be the case, try convincing the officer of that. If you refuse, I can almost gaurentee that you'll be getting a search whether you like it or not. Not everyone (me for example) can afford a lawyer to fight the case either.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  17. #17
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    malignity wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    And this is why you do not discuss the contents of your vehicle nor allow the police to search your vehicle on a traffic stop!
    "Officer I do not wish to discuss the contents of my vehicle" "Now if they is anything else am I free to go?"

    REMEMBER people, you DO NOT have to answer questions from the police and your refusal to do so IS NOT probable cause.
    While this may be the case, try convincing the officer of that. If you refuse, I can almost gaurentee that you'll be getting a search whether you like it or not. Not everyone (me for example) can afford a lawyer to fight the case either.
    And what would be the probable cause for a search warrant? Remember you have to convince a judge to sign one.

    Cop:Your HonorI would like a search warrant for a vehicle.

    Judge: Why?

    Cop: This guy won't talk to me and let me search his car.

    Judge: No I mean what PC do you have?

    Cop: I just told you.

    Judge: Oh.. I see. In that case come back after you study what PC is.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    the500kid wrote:
    DrTodd wrote:
    Since the vehicle is a pickup, he can have the pistols in the
    passenger compartment, but they can not be readily accessible.
    The courts have ruled that behind the driver's seat is "readily
    accessible". Besides that, in his letter he admits that he knew
    that what he did was a violation of the CCW law.
    I don't mean to sound stupid here but were else am I suppose to put them in my pickup since behind the seat is the only place they'll fit. I can't fit a case handgun under the seat and we know the glove box is out. So were else in the cab would I transport them not "readily accessible". Here's to repealing the transport restictions.
    As the former CFO and MONROE County Administrator, Londo ran Courts,Sheriffs,Jail,payroll, Budget,etc. Duh ?

  19. #19
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    malignity wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    And this is why you do not discuss the contents of your vehicle nor allow the police to search your vehicle on a traffic stop!
    "Officer I do not wish to discuss the contents of my vehicle" "Now if they is anything else am I free to go?"

    REMEMBER people, you DO NOT have to answer questions from the police and your refusal to do so IS NOT probable cause.
    While this may be the case, try convincing the officer of that. If you refuse, I can almost gaurentee that you'll be getting a search whether you like it or not. Not everyone (me for example) can afford a lawyer to fight the case either.
    And what would be the probable cause for a search warrant? Remember you have to convince a judge to sign one.

    Cop:Your HonorI would like a search warrant for a vehicle.

    Judge: Why?

    Cop: This guy won't talk to me and let me search is car.

    Judge: No I mean what PC do you have?

    Cop: I just told you.

    Judge: Oh.. I see. In that case come back after you study what PC is.
    Touche' Venator, I didn't realize you needed a search warrant to search a vehicle.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  20. #20
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    the500kid wrote:
    I don't mean to sound stupid here but were else am I suppose to put them in my pickup since behind the seat is the only place they'll fit. I can't fit a case handgun under the seat and we know the glove box is out. So were else in the cab would I transport them not "readily accessible". Here's to repealing the transport restictions.
    I believe the correct answer is this: behind the passenger's seat, not the driver's seat.

  21. #21
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    the500kid wrote:
    DrTodd wrote:
    Since the vehicle is a pickup, he can have the pistols in the
    passenger compartment, but they can not be readily accessible.
    The courts have ruled that behind the driver's seat is "readily
    accessible". Besides that, in his letter he admits that he knew
    that what he did was a violation of the CCW law.
    I don't mean to sound stupid here but were else am I suppose to put them in my pickup since behind the seat is the only place they'll fit.* I can't fit a case handgun under the seat and we know the glove box is out.* So were else in the cab would I transport them not "readily accessible".* Here's to repealing the transport restictions.*
    There are no guarantees, but if he would have LOCKED them in the cases, it may have helped. Also, if you have to get out of the truck to access the firearms, it strengthens the case of "not readily accessible". Perhaps by putting them as far behind the passenger seat as possible, where he would have access only from the passenger side door. This probably would not help if there were a passenger present, though.

    Since any interaction with the police while traveling with firearms [esp. without a valid CPL] increases the likelihood of problems, he should have kept his mouth shut. I think Venator gave a good example above.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  22. #22
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    malignity wrote:
    And what would be the probable cause for a search warrant? Remember you have to convince a judge to sign one.

    Cop:Your HonorI would like a search warrant for a vehicle.

    Judge: Why?

    Cop: This guy won't talk to me and let me search is car.

    Judge: No I mean what PC do you have?

    Cop: I just told you.

    Judge: Oh.. I see. In that case come back after you study what PC is.



    Touche' Venator, I didn't realize you needed a search warrant to search a vehicle.
    Unless they have PC or see something in thevehiclelike drugs, a gun, or you give them permission they do. But not just becauseyou refuse to answer questions and refuse a search, they have to have something more to be able to search.

    Watch COPS and see how many illegal searches they do. Also see how many times people allow the search. The LEOs are very good at intimidation and have tactics to get you to let them search. Often they have the door open and are sticking their heads or bodies in your vehicle as they ask the question "You don't mind if I search your vehicle" and don't wait for an answer.

    Theycanalso bring a drug sniffingdog and if it alerts, that's considered PC and they can search without a warrant.

    Learn your rights and use them.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  23. #23
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    As a former LEO, here is the biggest thing-

    the authoritieshave becomeUn-American (2nd Amendment) and Londo was/is a lethargic fool.

    Why is there not a "license" required (yet) for your First Amendment?

    How about the Fifth Amendment RIGHT? License?

    And by the way, how long does the "flag" on your DL stay,if you let your CPL/CCW expire? Is it there for everso theofficer has the "right" to ask if you are carring or armed?

    I have said it before. The only reason for a license (for any RIGHT) is to keep tabs onhonest citizens that have guns, so when it comes time to remove guns....well, they know exactly where togo.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Scooter's Avatar
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    ldabe wrote:
    As a former LEO, here is the biggest thing-

    the authoritieshave becomeUn-American (2nd Amendment) and Londo was/is a lethargic fool.

    Why is there not a "license" required (yet) for your First Amendment?

    How about the Fifth Amendment RIGHT? License?

    And by the way, how long does the "flag" on your DL stay,if you let your CPL/CCW expire? Is it there for everso theofficer has the "right" to ask if you are carring or armed?

    I have said it before. The only reason for a license (for any RIGHT) is to keep tabs onhonest citizens that have guns, so when it comes time to remove guns....well, they know exactly where togo.
    It would have sounded crazy to me years ago but, I can actually see a time when you are required to have a license to "use" other rights. Scary.

  25. #25
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    This thread is called 'CPL if it expires?' but what if your driver's license is expired. If you are supposed to present your DL and CPL when pulled over for a traffic stop is therean addedgun chargethey can get you for while CC'ing with a valid CPL, but with an expired DL?

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