Open Carry in San Diego to San Marcos

GeneticsDave · Aug 15, 2009

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Hey guys! I'm a Utah subforum guy, but I've been frequenting the PRK quite a bit this summer. Most of my time is in San Diego, Rancho Santa Fe and San Marcos.

I brought my sidearm last trip (since we drove), but only carried in Utah and Arizona (NV just cancelled reciprocity with us - dirty birds). Anyways, I carried at our residence in CA, but not outside. I recently read an article from the San Diego Weekly Reader ( http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2009/jul/15/cover/ ) and was surprised.

What I want to know is how I can OC in the areas I will frequent. The only thing I know is that your mags must only carry 10 or less rounds. And I think you can't have the mag in the firearm, it must be kept separate.

I appreciate your help, please let me know what to do and what to expect. Thanks!

SOneThreeCoupe · Aug 15, 2009

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http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/8457.html

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/4842.html

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/27519.html

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/11495.html

Read the fliers and pamphlets, and watch the videos.

It's not something you want to get wrong.

CA_Libertarian · Aug 16, 2009

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www.californiaopencarry.org is a great one-stop shop for info.

just be mindful of the LE memos and DA memos... some of it is FUD; they're posted mostly for posterity.

You're bound to have questions. Please search the forum with specific questions. If you don't find it, feel free to ask, most of us know where to find the answers.

pullnshoot25 · Aug 16, 2009

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http://caopencarry.blogspot.com/2009/06/newest-oc-videos.html

Berzerker · Aug 21, 2009

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Hello to all!

This is my first posting and I saw thiswhere the gentleman from UT was stating that loaded mags were OK as long as they were 10 Rnds. I think that may be inaccurate in that if you owned a firearm and magazines BEFORE the Hi-Cap magazine ban can into place here in Commiefornia they are grandfathered in and are legal to possess and I see no reason not to carry them.

I am still a cherry where as I've only open carried once here in OC.

Decoligny · Aug 21, 2009

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Berzerker wrote:

Hello to all!

This is my first posting and I saw thiswhere the gentleman from UT was stating that loaded mags were OK as long as they were 10 Rnds. I think that may be inaccurate in that if you owned a firearm and magazines BEFORE the Hi-Cap magazine ban can into place here in Commiefornia they are grandfathered in and are legal to possess and I see no reason not to carry them.

I am still a cherry where as I've only open carried once here in OC.

I think that need a little clarification.

If you owned a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds prior to January 1, 2000,

AND

You had that magazine actually in the State of California prior to January 1, 2000,

THEN

It is legal for you to bring that magazine back into the State.

So, if you bought the magazine in Utah in 1998 (pre-ban), and then brough the magazine with you when you came to California on vacation in 1999 (pre-ban), you can bring it back into California legally.

The ban does not apply to:

PC 12020(b) (23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state.

CA_Libertarian · Aug 22, 2009

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Well-stated, Decoligny.

I would only add:

If you are from out of state, you would be wise to have some sort of proof you had the magazine in the state before the ban. I'm not 100% certain, but I believe statutory exemptions are only a 'positive defense'. That is, the burden of proof is on you to show you meet the exemption.

Since possession is not a crime, the burden of proof would be on the DA to show that you imported, manufactured, or attempted to sell the 'large-capacity' magazine.

However, if you didn't reside in state prior to the ban, then it would be easy to assert that you imported the mags (legally or not). Since importation is a crime, you would need to prove an exemption.

coolusername2007 · Aug 22, 2009

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Just a little off topic, but has anybody UOC'ed while getting a haircut? What to do about the drape?

horsetrader · Aug 22, 2009

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How about a meeting in North San Diego County ? Yes, I watched the videos and took notes. Yes , I looked at Pull&Shoot 25 's website and found nothing listed for future events. Yes, I read everything over at Calguns. So what about a meeting in North San diego county ?

ConditionThree · Aug 22, 2009

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coolusername2007 wrote:

Just a little off topic, but has anybody UOC'ed while getting a haircut? What to do about the drape?

Yes. Please see my police encounter. Bear in mind that at the time, it didn't matter whether it was exposed or concealed as I held a valid license to carry concealed. The drape can be tucked behind your weapon but you willprobably get clippings all over.

Mike · Aug 22, 2009

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ConditionThree wrote:

coolusername2007 wrote:

Just a little off topic, but has anybody UOC'ed while getting a haircut? What to do about the drape?

Click to expand...

Yes. Please see my police encounter. Bear in mind that at the time, it didn't matter whether it was exposed or concealed as I held a valid license to carry concealed. The drape can be tucked behind your weapon but you willprobably get clippings all over.

quick question - if a person holds the Calif. permit to conceal, does the fact that they open carry void any of the immunities for , e.g., carrying in school zone, carry loaded in an incorporated area, etc?

pullnshoot25 · Aug 22, 2009

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ConditionThree wrote:

coolusername2007 wrote:

Just a little off topic, but has anybody UOC'ed while getting a haircut? What to do about the drape?

Click to expand...

Yes. Please see my police encounter. Bear in mind that at the time, it didn't matter whether it was exposed or concealed as I held a valid license to carry concealed. The drape can be tucked behind your weapon but you willprobably get clippings all over.

I have. I tried to keep the drape behind my gun.

coolusername2007 · Aug 22, 2009

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horsetrader wrote:

How about a meeting in North San Diego County ? Yes, I watched the videos and took notes. Yes , I looked at Pull&Shoot 25 's website and found nothing listed for future events. Yes, I read everything over at Calguns. So what about a meeting in North San diego county ?

There's a meeting being organized at the Bass Pro Shop in Rancho Cucamonga. Check out the thread here http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/29070.html If you want to attend let me know.

ConditionThree · Aug 22, 2009

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Mike wrote:

ConditionThree wrote:

coolusername2007 wrote:

Just a little off topic, but has anybody UOC'ed while getting a haircut? What to do about the drape?

Click to expand...

Yes. Please see my police encounter. Bear in mind that at the time, it didn't matter whether it was exposed or concealed as I held a valid license to carry concealed. The drape can be tucked behind your weapon but you willprobably get clippings all over.

Click to expand...

quick question - if a person holds the Calif. permit to conceal, does the fact that they open carry void any of the immunities for , e.g., carrying in school zone, carry loaded in an incorporated area, etc?

No. There is no statutory duty for a licenseeto conceal- (unless the issuing authority imprints a "reasonable restriction" on the license as per 12050 (b) and (c)). 12031, 626.9 and 171(b) do not stipulate in their exemptions what format the license must be for the exemptions to be in effect.

This in no way inhibited the Sheriff in his decision to revoke my license to conceal, however.

mjones · Aug 23, 2009

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ConditionThree wrote:

Mike wrote:

ConditionThree wrote:

coolusername2007 wrote:

Just a little off topic, but has anybody UOC'ed while getting a haircut? What to do about the drape?

Click to expand...

Yes. Please see my police encounter. Bear in mind that at the time, it didn't matter whether it was exposed or concealed as I held a valid license to carry concealed. The drape can be tucked behind your weapon but you willprobably get clippings all over.

Click to expand...

quick question - if a person holds the Calif. permit to conceal, does the fact that they open carry void any of the immunities for , e.g., carrying in school zone, carry loaded in an incorporated area, etc?

Click to expand...

No. There is no statutory duty for a licenseeto conceal- (unless the issuing authority imprints a "reasonable restriction" on the license as per 12050 (b) and (c)). 12031, 626.9 and 171(b) do not stipulate in their exemptions what format the license must be for the exemptions to be in effect.

This in no way inhibited the Sheriff in his decision to revoke my license to conceal, however.

I agree with C3s assesment completely. The only 'legal wrangling' that I think would be possible is that since CA has statutory licenses for both Open Carry & Concealed Carry a DA might somehow try to prove that Concealed must be concealed and that open must be open.

CA_Libertarian · Aug 23, 2009

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ConditionThree wrote:

Mike wrote:

quick question - if a person holds the Calif. permit to conceal, does the fact that they open carry void any of the immunities for , e.g., carrying in school zone, carry loaded in an incorporated area, etc?

Click to expand...

No. There is no statutory duty for a licenseeto conceal- (unless the issuing authority imprints a "reasonable restriction" on the license as per 12050 (b) and (c)). 12031, 626.9 and 171(b) do not stipulate in their exemptions what format the license must be for the exemptions to be in effect.

This in no way inhibited the Sheriff in his decision to revoke my license to conceal, however.

I would only add that it is common FUD in CA for CCW instructors, gun shop owners, etc to proclaim that even accidental exposure of a concealed firearm by a CCW permitee is 'brandishing'.

I have yet to find a single person who can prove this claim.

wewd · Aug 24, 2009

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A California CCW does not allow you to openly carry a loaded weapon. There is a separate permit for that (which are apparently never issued). You must still unload when open carrying in incorporated areas. But as the issuance of permits is discretionary, so is the revocation of permits, and people have had their CCWs revoked by the Sheriff for open carry even if they were following the law.

ConditionThree · Aug 24, 2009

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wewd wrote:

A California CCW does not allow you to openly carry a loaded weapon. There is a separate permit for that (which are apparently never issued). You must still unload when open carrying in incorporated areas. But as the issuance of permits is discretionary, so is the revocation of permits, and people have had their CCWs revoked by the Sheriff for open carry even if they were following the law.

Citation please. The issuance of a license allows the activity of concealing a weapon, which is criminalized by 12025.

Please show me where 12050 invalidates the license for incidental and deliberate exposed carry where it it otherwise lawul.

mjones · Aug 24, 2009

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There might be some confusion here specifically in Wewd's case if he has an SBSO issued CCW.

I'm not positive, but I believe SBSO specifically prints "Weapon Must Be Concealed" as a 'reasonable restriction for method of carry'

In most regards a CA CCW is outstanding compared to most states...including Arizona; but when local CLEOs get to makeup whatever 'reasonable restrictions' they want the CA system as a whole can get REALLY fubar.

Edited to add:

incase I was too vague...any CA CLEO can statutorily

"include any reasonable restrictions or
conditions which the issuing authority deems warranted, including
restrictions as to the time, place, manner, and circumstances under
which the person may carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person.
(c) Any restrictions imposed pursuant to subdivision (b) shall be
indicated on any license issued."

If the licensee doesn't abide by the printed restrictions the license becomes invalid while those condition are not met. i.e. if "Weapon Must Be Concealed" is a printed restriction; then the license is not in effect while Open Carrying (whereby PC 12025 is now irrelevant) there is no exemption from PC 12031 for its loaded condition.

bigtoe416 · Aug 24, 2009

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wewd wrote:

A California CCW does not allow you to openly carry a loaded weapon. There is a separate permit for that (which are apparently never issued).

Those permits exist only for counties containing fewer than 200,000 residents:

Code:

12050. (a) (1) (B) The chief or other head of a municipal police department of any city or city and county, upon proof that the person applying is of good moral character, that good cause exists for the issuance, and that the person applying is a resident of that city and has completed a course of training as described in subparagraph (E), may issue to that person a license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in either one of the following formats: 

(ii) Where the population of the county in which the city is located is less than 200,000 persons according to the most recent federal decennial census, a license to carry loaded and exposed in that county a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

Only 31 of 58 counties have fewer than 200,000 residents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_counties )

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