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Thread: run in with LEO's

  1. #1
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    So today my girlfriend and i needed to go to the bank to cash a check well we had to walk cause the car is down for the count. So i told her that i cant go in because im carrying, so i wait outside the bank to wait for her. When she came out we went over to the bus stop at overland and vista to catch the bus, and while waiting we see 2 police cars heading our way and i didnt think anything of it until they swarmed the bus stop and asked me to walk over to them with my hands up. I get over to them and i did the whole down on the ground thing so they could check my gun and ask me what i was doing. They told me they got a call about a man with a gun. Well it all went good because i did everything they asked and let me go on my way but my girlfriend was sitting there laughing the whole time so she got a kick out of it. So that is the fun i had today with the local BPD.

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    A: Why can't you go into a bank?

    B: I thought Boise PD were squared away with respect to OC. What's goin' on here?

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    There is NO Idaho or federal law that prohibits carry in a bank.

    Did you have a voice recorder running? Unless they had Reasonable Articulable Suspicion that you had committed, were in the process of committing, or were about to commit a crime, they were completely in the wrong to take you down and detain you.

    Check out Terry v Ohio and JL v Florida, the simple act of carrying a firearm is NOT sufficient cause.

  4. #4
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    all i can really say is, with the trigger happy boise cops, following their directions can be the safe course, and then telling them they were wrong, after you have them caught in the wrong.

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    John Wolver wrote:
    all i can really say is, with the trigger happy boise cops, following their directions can be the safe course, and then telling them they were wrong, after you have them caught in the wrong.
    Yes, you must always obey the direct orders of police officers, however, it takes more than just "telling" them they were wrong. It takes taking legal action against them for violating your rights. It is a federal crime to deny your right against unreasonable search and seizure under color of law under 18 USC 241 and 18 USC 242

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...1----000-.html

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...2----000-.html


    It is also grounds for a civil suit under 42 USC 1983

    http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/1983.html


  6. #6
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    wow thank you guys i didnt know that what they did was wrong. so what do ou guys think i should do? and no i didnt have a recorder i dont have the money for one.

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    headhunter09 wrote:
    wow thank you guys i didnt know that what they did was wrong. so what do ou guys think i should do? and no i didnt have a recorder i dont have the money for one.
    Since you didn't have a voice recorder, that leaves your only witness as your girlfriend who doesn't sound like she would be a great help, so that make me think that your only real course of action at this point would be to file a formal complaint with the PD.

    If you think your girlfriend would really be a good witness, you could file a complaint with the local FBI office for a color of law violation.

    Regardless of what you ultimately decide, I would definitely file an open records request for the 911 call and all related radio traffic and all related messages, email, etc. I don't know what the exact procedure is in Idaho, but there is likely someone on the forum who can tell you.

    IANAL - I am not a lawyer, this is just my humble opinion.


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    SUE THE A##HOLES AND THEIR BOSSES FOR FAILURE TRAIN AND FAILURE SUPERVISE ABD MAYBE DELIBERATE INDIFFERENCE. Yes I am Yelling

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    Wow, Rattrapper, thanks for visiting now try to be productive.

    Headhunter, file a complaint with BPD and then get ahold of one of our local news agencies. With all of the recent stories about BPD screwing things up around here they would jump at the chance to hammer Beiter's Boys some more, especially when the violation of a person's civil rights are involved. Your 4th amendment was just horribly trampled on by BPD. The older cops in BPD are pretty cool but their younger patrol officers are way too aggressive for this state.

    Honestly, you are lucky they didn't shoot or Tase you, BPD has gotten very trigger happy and aggressive recently and they are the reason I don't OC in Boise. It started about 5 years ago when they began to actively recruit cops from Southern California. ACSO is by far the best agency around here to deal with, in my not so humble opinion. And no, I am not a cop.

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    Why worry if BPD shot at you? How many 50+ round "gunfights" have they been involved in where the "suspect" commited suicide to end it?

    Yeah, they need help shooting wise.

    BTW, everybody who has brought up the illegality of the officers "terry" stop is correct. The OP needs to complain at the least - an IA can be launched if you file a complaint. Then file with the Federal Court system when you get the officers names and recordings.

  11. #11
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    How do you keep from getting shot by Boise PD? Stand directly in front of them.

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    Another OCer was recently stopped and had his weapon removed for a short time recently. He'll remain nameless unless he wants to share his story publicly.

    Please don't just let this pass by. Unless there is some other information we're missing, the police have no probable cause (in Idaho) to detain and disarm you. They must have reasonable articulable suspicion that you are in the commission of a crime or about to commit one. In simple English this means unless you're waving your gun around, pointing it at people, wearing a ski-mask at the bank in mid summer, ie, something that points to you doing something illegal. Here in Idaho guns are legal and so is the lawful open carry of guns. At the very most, a "man with a gun" call should get you a consensual contact. While you're free to converse with them if you choose (and I do often) at any time you can walk away and go about your buisness. I'm sorry this happened to you and I hope you speak up about it to keep it from happening to others.

  13. #13
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    i wonder if this is how we'll be treated at our gathering... "everybody on the ground"

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    Wow, so I was wrong on "B" in my previous post...Boise PD is not squared away on OC.

    Interesting. Keep it up, ladies and gentlemen.

  15. #15
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    Well, one would think that BPD would be squared away on Open Carry, ACSO seems to be, from what I have gathered by talking to many of their deputies and detectives. I think a lot of it comes from the cops who didn't grow up around here and their leadership, specifically the Mayor.

    If I get the time today I may email Chief Masterson to get his take on how OCers are to be treated.

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    Don't stop with a complaint to the chief - it may get disregarded. I suggest you do the following:

    1. Get a copy of the "DR" (daily report? don't know what it stands for) regarding the incident. With multiple cars and officers, one or more of them would have had to make a report. I don't have the URL, but google the Boise Police Department; they have an online public records request section on their website. Fill it out - date, time, location of incident, your name, etc. They've got 3 days to respond, 10 if they tell you they need extra time. The DR will indicate whether one or more officers recorded the incident; BPD policy requires that all "subject" contacts be recorded. It should also indicate the exact time the "man with a gun" call came in.

    You might want to go to Barrister (the Ada Co. Sheriff's office is there) and fill out a public records request asking the Ada Co. Sheriff dispatch to provide you with a copy (tape or cd or audio file) of the call and any written documentation (dispatch logs) regarding the call and communications between the dispatch and the officers.

    Consider asking the Boise PD for a copy of any and all text or car-to-car messages regarding the call and your contact with them.

    2. File an online complaint with the Boise City Ombudsman.

    http://www.boiseombudsman.org/

    The complaint form will ask what you what your idea of a proper resolution of the case to be, or something like that. Ask that all BPD officers and employees be trained regarding Idaho's open carry laws, so they can respond accordingly when they receive such calls and prevent future unnecessary, possibly unlawful detentions.

    The Ombudsman can be a police apologist (usually is), and may respond that everyone did everything by the book, that public policy dictates they rush to MWAG calls, and society's interest in stopping and preventing crime outweighs the individual's right to carry for a few minutes while they "check you out" in a detention, or some other nonsense like that, but at least you'll get an outside investigation, as opposed to the laughable "internal review" by BPD. Stress that you feel you may have been unlawfully detained, because a man standing out in public, lawfully carrying a firearm, does not rise to the level of a reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime has occurred, or will occur. Also throw in something about "the uninformed public's perception" or "individual trepidation or fear with no rational basis" by the caller also is not a reasonable or articulable basis for a detention.

    This one will be interesting - I'd like to see the Ombudsman dance between law enforcement, the Second Amendment, and Article I, Section 11 of the Idaho Constitution.

    Keep us posted.

  17. #17
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    That is the funny part i was sitting on the little half wall just outside the doors waiting for my girlfriend with my hands in my lap!!This was at the wells fargo on vista and the encounter was at overland and vista. Then at the bus stop i was doing the same damn thing, just sitting there waiting for the bus. and my girlfriend would make a great witness because she cant stand BPD because they are so curupt. I think i will go down and file a complaint with someone, most likely on thursday.

  18. #18
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    Did I read this correctly that you were proned out onthe ground? Were you at gunpoint?
    Chuck Norris/Ted Nugent That's the ticket for 2016!

  19. #19
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    I was on my knees when they removed my firearm and searched me and then put me in cuffs and i didnt see any of them with there guns out they were just ready i guess.

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    That's crazy bro... I OC around this area all the time. Surprised nobody's called me in yet.

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    headhunter09 wrote:
    So today my girlfriend and i needed to go to the bank to cash a check well we had to walk cause the car is down for the count. So i told her that i cant go in because im carrying, so i wait outside the bank to wait for her. When she came out we went over to the bus stop at overland and vista to catch the bus, and while waiting we see 2 police cars heading our way and i didnt think anything of it until they swarmed the bus stop and asked me to walk over to them with my hands up. I get over to them and i did the whole down on the ground thing so they could check my gun and ask me what i was doing. They told me they got a call about a man with a gun. Well it all went good because i did everything they asked and let me go on my way but my girlfriend was sitting there laughing the whole time so she got a kick out of it. So that is the fun i had today with the local BPD.
    That has got to be thecraziest consensual police encounter I've read yet.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    So, did you file any complaints yet? Please keep us posted.......

  23. #23
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    To say the least it was one of the most friendly encounters i have had with BPD. I have not yet gotten down to the office to file yet i have been busy with other things, i know it sucks but i really need a job right now lol. So i will be at the OC meet tomorrow at the park so i hope to meet some of you there!

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    To say the least it was one of the most friendly encounters i have had with BPD............. if that was the most friendly encounter..... what were the other encounters like???
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

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    headhunter09 wrote:
    To say the least it was one of the most friendly encounters i have had with BPD. I have not yet gotten down to the office to file yet i have been busy with other things, i know it sucks but i really need a job right now lol. So i will be at the OC meet tomorrow at the park so i hope to meet some of you there!
    Pretty sure that got canceled.

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