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run in with LEO's

Citizen

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headhunter09 wrote:
So today my girlfriend and i needed to go to the bank to cash a check well we had to walk cause the car is down for the count. So i told her that i cant go in because im carrying, so i wait outside the bank to wait for her. When she came out we went over to the bus stop at overland and vista to catch the bus, and while waiting we see 2 police cars heading our way and i didnt think anything of it until they swarmed the bus stop and asked me to walk over to them with my hands up. I get over to them and i did the whole down on the ground thing so they could check my gun and ask me what i was doing. They told me they got a call about a man with a gun. Well it all went good because i did everything they asked and let me go on my way but my girlfriend was sitting there laughing the whole time so she got a kick out of it. So that is the fun i had today with the local BPD.
That has got to be thecraziest consensual police encounter I've read yet.
 

DCR

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So, did you file any complaints yet? Please keep us posted.......
 

headhunter09

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To say the least it was one of the most friendly encounters i have had with BPD. I have not yet gotten down to the office to file yet i have been busy with other things, i know it sucks but i really need a job right now lol. So i will be at the OC meet tomorrow at the park so i hope to meet some of you there!
 

Conradm

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headhunter09 wrote:
To say the least it was one of the most friendly encounters i have had with BPD. I have not yet gotten down to the office to file yet i have been busy with other things, i know it sucks but i really need a job right now lol. So i will be at the OC meet tomorrow at the park so i hope to meet some of you there!
Pretty sure that got canceled.
 

codename_47

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Wow, Rattrapper, thanks for visiting now try to be productive.

That is good advice. I'd sue them for that.
 

DCR

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Please don't let this opportunity to educate LE and the general public go to waste - it could prevent future problems.

Are you afraid of retribution from BPD? Talk to the Ombudman and lay it all out for him - he may allay all your concerns.
 

IndianaBoy79

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We've spoken by PM. He is not letting it go. I did advice him to not make any more public posts about the incident until the situation is resolved.
 

ecocks

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I would definitely pursue a complaint with the PD. Not to get anyone fired or sue them, but to keep this from happening in the future. One of the reasons for OC is to contribute to the education and atmosphere of the community.

I thought the OC event on the 6th was not in Boise but over in either Caldwell or Nampa? Will look this up after this post.

Your bank may not be happy about you open carrying but most seem to understand it here in ID. If there is no sign, I'd try it and see how it goes.
 

Thelukaskezik

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I was... well, the best way i can describe it is "hunted down" in Boise Town Square Mall for carrying. I'm very new to the area, and fairly new to OC, but i know the rules. i checked for posted "no weapons" signs and did not see any. but i kept seeing their security team walking around, radio-ing back and forth, looking for someone. i made no effort to hide or anything, and they walked right by me twice, so i figured it wasnt me. but on my way out, i was literally 20 steps from the exit and a white-shirted security guard and a Boise LEO stopped me and told me the rules and that it is a posted no-gun zone inside their private property mall. i was very polite and appologetic. the security advisor left after thanking me for my cooperation, but the LEO followed me and my wife to the door before turning around and going back toward the security office.
 

IndianaBoy79

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Posted or not, you didn't break any laws. Those signs are simply "requests" and you don't have to comply with them. I'm not saying you shouldn't comply with them, I'm just saying your not breaking any laws by walking right by it even if you did see it. They asked you to leave...you complied. They can always tell you to leave but they can't dictate what you choose to wear on your hip.

Welcome to the area, sorry you had an issue there. Write em a letter and tell them about your unpleasant experience and don't spend your money there.
 

IdahoCorsair

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I'm LE and with the caveat that you might have left something out of your story... there is no reason for them to disarms you if your story is correct and complete, and sure as hell no reason to cuff you. THAT IS AN ARREST. (as defined, it is a siezure of the personand you were not free to go)

They don't need "probable cause"... what they need is "reasonable articulable suspicion" which, sadly, can be almost anything and can (again, sadly) be made up after the fact. Of course they're not supposed to after the fact, but 95% of LE would tell you that they'd made it up after the fact at least some times. If all you were doing is sitting outside a bank, any reasonable officer would have called the bank after getting the "man with a gun" call to see if any threats, attempts, etc had been made. If not, there is no issue, as OC is legal in Idaho... some departments might want them to swing by and check you out, but it should be a "consentual encounter," and yours was not.

Now, a lot of this changes if they ASKED you to do certain things and you did them voluntarily... though, knowing BPD I won't be surprised if they did over react.

PM me when you have the police report and I'll see if I can be of any help.
 

Hiredgun30

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one important piece also is to have the dispatchers retrained to ask certain questions when they get a "man with a gun" call..

1- is the gun holstered?

2- is the person threatening anybody with the gun?




as for caldwell p.d-- i have never had a problem, even walking downtown area at dusk.
 

bourneshooter

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Hiredgun30 wrote:
one important piece also is to have the dispatchers retrained to ask certain questions when they get a "man with a gun" call..

1- is the gun holstered?

2- is the person threatening anybody with the gun?
Exactly. Should be a MANDATORY part of ALL Dispatch/LE training.
 

IndianaBoy79

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I don't mind a polite "consensual" contact after someone has reported what that person believes to be suspicious behavior (us having guns exposed). So long as it is completely consensual. It gives the person who called it in a chance to see the cops come and talk to us and then leave us in peace.

In principle, I agree with you.
 

NightOwl

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It might be worth checking to see if there is dashcam footage. It's my understanding that at least some, if not most/all, of the BPD vehicles have them. Some video footage from the police vehicles would go a long way towards corroborating your story, and lend significant weight to the complaint.
 

aadvark

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18 U.S.C. 930(g)(1) the term'FederalFacility' means: a building... or any part thereof... that is owned or leased by The United States Federal Government... where Federal employees are regularly present... performing their duties, and

18 U.S.C. 930(h)requires these restrictions to be...posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal Facility.

Whenever any Bank attendant tries to tell you that their Bank is off limits per Federal Law, then, politely ask them if they are a Federal Facility and ask to see the posted prohibitions per Federal Law restricting Firearms from their Financial Establishment. If they are rude, or insist that you are trespassing, just inform them that you will take your business elsewhere.If the Bank has signs at the door prohibiting Firearms, then, just take your business elsewhere before you even go in. However, if you have aConcealed Firearms License just conceal your Firearm before you go in, and therefore... none the wiser, so they say. Although someStates spell out exceptions, like Texas or South Carolina, most times those signs carry no legal weight in the Court of Law unless you are specifically told that Firearms are not welcome and you bring them inside anyway, hence... Criminal Trespassing.

The FederalDeposit Insurance Corporations protections do not make a Private Bank off limits, but per 18 U.S.C 930 their headquartersat 1776 F Street, N.W. is though.

I would be extremely upset about this encounter, especially seeing as how it took place in The State of Idaho. Idaho is one of the most gun friendly States in the Country, bar none, and I guarantee you that The Boise Police Department knows that they are wrong.

There are only three places of limits in Idaho, per Idaho Law 18-3302C, these places are: Courthouses, Juvenile Detention Facilities/Jails/Penitentiary, and Schools K-12. Furthermore, per 18-3302C, the first two off limits places seem only to apply to concealed carry, whereas the last place... per Federal Law18 U.S.C. 922(q)... is off limits period whether one open carries or concealed carries.

If I were in Idaho, I would carry my Firearm right into the Boise Police Department and I wouldfile a complaint. Next, I would hire an Attorney.

There are no 4th Amendment exceptions to a 'Man with a Gun Call'.

In general, a Law Enforcement Officer must have a reasonable articulabe suspicion to believe that a crime has occurred,is occurring, or will occur in order to initiate or begina Terry Stop. The stop has to be based on more than a hunch, but nevertheless, a probable cause.

Per The Idaho Legislature, there are no real Terry StopLaws concerning this situation. There are also no Stop and Identify Laws inIdaho either, tothe best of my knowledge.

In your dialogue,where I assume you remembered everything correctly, the Officers gave several reasonswhy thestop was invalid. You should take this matter to Court, whereI am sure that you would prevail.

Shame on The Boise Police Department for needlessly detaining that Man in Public.
 

Statesman

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DCR wrote:
The Ombudsman can be a police apologist (usually is), and may respond that everyone did everything by the book, that public policy dictates they rush to MWAG calls, and society's interest in stopping and preventing crime outweighs the individual's right to carry for a few minutes while they "check you out" in a detention, or some other nonsense like that,
This is a classic collectivist argument that society is more important than the individual, and at the end of this cycle, collectivism's sick and twisted logic, leads to genocide.

I offer exhibit A as evidence. Most if not all of the countries listed on this map, were rooted in collectivism in the period genocide took place.

Exhibit A: http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm#chart

The rebuttal here is that by respecting everyone's individual right to lawfully defend themselves, society is better protected from criminals. This is why, IMHO, "crime prevention" is flawed, as it has a strong tendency to undermine individual rights to allegedly benefit collective rights. Only use the coercive power of government to prosecute criminals, as that serves as the disincentive for crime prevention everyone so eagerly desires.
 

ecocks

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While I don't really WANT to have a confrontation with anyone, I confess it wouldtickle me to no end to be told that Icould not carry in a bank "because it was Federal property" or (here in ID) because we are prohibited from carrying per law.

My simple response would be that the shareholders of the bank would be interested in hearing that their facilities are government property. It's just so out of left field that it isn't worth a discussion of the FDIC, federal prohibitions or whatever. Of course, state law does not restrict carry in banks either. If I remember correctly, NC and a couple of other states do specifically identify banks asprohibited fromcarry per their statutes but Federal property, no way.

Interestingly I asked in the Silverdale, WA PO about carrying in the facility and was told if they didn't want guns in the facility, they would have posted the area. They further informed me that the only prohibition they had was none behind the counter for either employees or customers/visitors. Note: Offices were located behind the counter.

IIRC, there is also a clause (or used to be) that even where guns are prohibited on federal properties, that prosecution/conviction is not possible unless they were properly posted.
 
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