dirtykoala
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Calguns is a public forum, a BIG tent and the Biggest tent we have in CA. Want to change opinions and influence events in CA? Be on Calguns and stay on calguns. Make reasoned and well written arguments. Do not be baited into personal tiffs. Do not respond to a hostile poster directly. Stay on topic and redirect discussion back toour "reasonable" position.
Be willing to consider someone elses point of view (or at least sound like you do). Doing the above may not influence the individual getting your goat BUT it WILL influence the thousands reading and sitting on the fence.
OC activities over the years have made a dent in the general doom and gloom assumptions of CA gunnies (even thought the tide of opinion ebbs and flows at times). The best thing OCers can do is get involved in supporting the CGN booth at gun shows/events. Be a constituency which is active, valuable, and engaged!
I'm reminded of the old saying: A quitter never wins and a winner never quits.I've decided it's not worth going to CalGuns.net anymore. Not to say there's nothing worthwhile there, but I just don't feel it's worth wading through all the open carry hate to get to the 'good' stuff.
In fact, I'm pretty fed up with the entire "gun rights movement" in CA, with exception to a few people (most found on this board). There's too many people that will cry about CCW and OLLs, but when it comes to OC... "what the hell are you guys thinking exercising your right in that way?"
(Like 'poor man CCW' and OLL-building aren't just as socially unacceptable "loopholes".)
Either it's an absolute right, or it is not. Just because a certain exercise of that right is unpopular doesn't make it any less of a right. It sickens me when people disparage those who have the courage to push the envelope, especially since that's the ONLY way we're going to change social meme.
I'm reminded of the old saying: A quitter never wins and a winner never quits.
Calguns is a public forum, a BIG tent and the Biggest tent we have in CA. Want to change opinions and influence events in CA? Be on Calguns and stay on calguns. Make reasoned and well written arguments. Do not be baited into personal tiffs. Do not respond to a hostile poster directly. Stay on topic and redirect discussion back toour "reasonable" position.
Be willing to consider someone elses point of view (or at least sound like you do). Doing the above may not influence the individual getting your goat BUT it WILL influence the thousands reading and sitting on the fence.
OC activities over the years have made a dent in the general doom and gloom assumptions of CA gunnies (even thought the tide of opinion ebbs and flows at times). The best thing OCers can do is get involved in supporting the CGN booth at gun shows/events. Be a constituency which is active, valuable, and engaged!
We haven't even raised enough for Theseus' bill. We don't need or want any more cases.Note to CGN Brass: couldn't you continue to support UOC'ers through specific donation funds like Theseus' and not out of your general fund?
VCDL had and has the courts and laws of Virginiaon their side (it's a Right). We don't have a any state right to arms and we're still waiting on theprotections of the Federal one.I strongly desire there to be a big tent organization like Virginias VCDL, but Im afraid CGN is not quite as audacious as their east coast counterpart.
I hear what you are saying. I think it's a good strategy.But...it can get downright frustrating with some over there. And some of the worst are those that hold officer positions on CGF.
Before I comment, a pre-comment: Ihave no illusions here, I am certain I will not change your mind or the CGN brass, nor am I trying,I post mostlyfor rhetorical purposes.coolusername2007 wrote:We haven't even raised enough for Theseus' bill. We don't need or want any more cases.Note to CGN Brass: couldn't you continue to support UOC'ers through specific donation funds like Theseus' and not out of your general fund?
The lawsuits in play, 9th and DC Circuit, WILL lead to LOC (even though Sykes is billed as a CCW case)in my opinion and make PERMANENT changes to CA law.
There is no need for individual OCersto place their finances, jobs, and freedom at great risk at this time.
Just curious, is there a poll on CGN regarding thefavor of OC? It would be interesting to know the numbers if CGN was for and against. People will follow your lead, so gaining OC support will be tough as long as CGN is openly against it.If Calguns has taught us anything is that OCers need to convert those closest to us to beginto even think ofmaking a dent in CA public and LEO opinion. Having the courts on our side will make that unnecessary, as the public and LEOs will then just have to get used to it.
To quote Ron Paul, "If you subsidize something, you get more of it." There was a time then the UOC arrests for 12031 were stacking up, it cost money. They were fully committed to backing two marines (different cases) if it went to trial and beyond. With a few more arrests it was clear that UOC defenses only resulted in returning to the status quo with no positive change in the law. Doing the same thing over and over again with no progress is not smart.The money may and probably never will be enough, but CGN could still support in small amounts.
Just curious, is there a poll on CGN regarding thefavor of OC? It would be interesting to know the numbers if CGN was for and against. People will follow your lead, so gaining OC support will be tough as long as CGN is openly against it.
So, cato, are you not UOC'ing?If not, how long will you not UOC? What is the CGF strategy? What are the milestones that we should look for to know that their strategy is "on-track"?[SNIP] There is no need for individual OCersto place their finances, jobs, and freedom at great risk at this time.
The point of the poll question was because of your comment on converting those within our ranks. I have little idea of the popularity of UOC, I just anecdotally know the comments are generally unfavorable to it.There have been polls and I don't like them. A sampling of 100 regulars is of no merit IMO. The logic to hold off UOC or to continue should stand on it's own. It should be a cost/risk/benefit analysis. I support LOC as a defensive tactic (anywhere)and OC as political tactic (where it's a Rightwhich gives us leverage beyond our numbers). If that is what I believe I will stick to those guns regardless of CGN opinion. It's been the steadfastefforts of those here over the past two years which I believe has caused many on the net to see OC with more general approval then before (even if they disagree with doing it now).
cato wrote:So, cato, are you not UOC'ing?If not, how long will you not UOC? What is the CGF strategy? What are the milestones that we should look for to know that their strategy is "on-track"?[SNIP] There is no need for individual OCersto place their finances, jobs, and freedom at great risk at this time.