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Thread: Westland City Ordinance

  1. #1
    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    So i was bored at lunch and came across this section in the local Westland ordinances under public safety ~weapons



    [size=Sec. 62-283. Possession or exhibition.]

    [size=(a)It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any dangerous weapon on or about his person.]

    [size=(b)As used in subsection (a) of this section, the term "dangerous weapon" means:]

    [size=(1)Any firearm;]

    [size=(2)Any knife with a blade which exceeds three inches in length;]

    [size=(3)Any club or karate stick;]

    [size=(4)Any mace or other aerosol repellant;]

    [size=(5)Any gun, pistol or rifle from which can be propelled, by any means, a pellet, BB or other projectile.]

    [size=(6)Any slingshot;]

    [size=(7)Any bow and arrow; or]

    [size=(8)Any starter pistol.]

    [size=(c)No person shall transport or have in his possession in any motor vehicle any firearm, facsimile of a firearm or gun from which can be propelled, by any means, a pellet, BB or other projectile, unless:]

    [size=(1)It is unloaded in both the barrel and the magazine; and]

    [size=(2)It is enclosed in a wrapper or container and contained in the trunk of the automobile; or if the automobile does not have a trunk, the wrapper or container is located where it is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.]

    [size=(d)No person shall draw, exhibit or brandish a facsimile of a firearm in a threatening, rude or hostile manner with the intent to frighten, harass, vex or annoy another person.]

    [size=(e)As used in this article, the term "facsimile of a firearm" means any device or object made of plastic, wood, metal or other material, which device or object is a facsimile, replica or toy version of, or is otherwise recognizable as, a pistol, revolver, shotgun, sawed-off shotgun, rifle, machine gun, rocket launcher or other firearm, including, but not limited to, toy guns, movie and stage props, hobby models (either in kit form or fully assembled), starter pistols, air guns, inoperative firearms or other devices which might reasonably be perceived to be a real firearm.]

    [size=(Code 1981, § 22-100; Ord. No. 109-J-2, § 1, 2-17-98)]

    State law references: Weapons in vehicles, MCL 312.10(g), (h), MSA 13.1339(1)(g), (h).

    I know the poice are aware of legal open carry, but it looks like the city hasn't changed the ordinances per pre-emption. I found a "pre- written" letter from Mr Jeffs that I will send if I'm correct on getting this changed






    Dear Mayor Wild:

    Looking through your ordinances I discovered this one (below). Under the 1990 state preemption law this ordinance is unenforceable in regards to firearm possession and is misleading to the people ofWestland and other citizens. I am requesting you amend this offending ordinance within 90 days. Failure to amend this ordinance would be considered an act of malfeasance as it willfully misinforms the public of what is and is not allowed in the city ofWestland.
    Thank You,

    Your name here

    In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    THE[/b]MICHIGAN APPEALS COURTCONCLUDED:
    April 29, 2003
    9:10 am. v No. 242237 MCGRO vs Ferndale.

    In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas. ][/b]

    [/b]Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse. [/b]

    City of Westland ORDINANCE in question:







    [size=Sec. 62-283. Possession or exhibition.]

    [size=(a)It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any dangerous weapon on or about his person.]

    [size=(b)As used in subsection (a) of this section, the term "dangerous weapon" means:]

    [size=(1)Any firearm;]

    [size=(2)Any knife with a blade which exceeds three inches in length;]

    [size=(3)Any club or karate stick;]

    [size=(4)Any mace or other aerosol repellant;]

    [size=(5)Any gun, pistol or rifle from which can be propelled, by any means, a pellet, BB or other projectile.]

    [size=(6)Any slingshot;]

    [size=(7)Any bow and arrow; or]

    [size=(8)Any starter pistol.]

    [size=(c)No person shall transport or have in his possession in any motor vehicle any firearm, facsimile of a firearm or gun from which can be propelled, by any means, a pellet, BB or other projectile, unless:]

    [size=(1)It is unloaded in both the barrel and the magazine; and]

    [size=(2)It is enclosed in a wrapper or container and contained in the trunk of the automobile; or if the automobile does not have a trunk, the wrapper or container is located where it is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.]

    [size=(d)No person shall draw, exhibit or brandish a facsimile of a firearm in a threatening, rude or hostile manner with the intent to frighten, harass, vex or annoy another person.]

    [size=(e)As used in this article, the term "facsimile of a firearm" means any device or object made of plastic, wood, metal or other material, which device or object is a facsimile, replica or toy version of, or is otherwise recognizable as, a pistol, revolver, shotgun, sawed-off shotgun, rifle, machine gun, rocket launcher or other firearm, including, but not limited to, toy guns, movie and stage props, hobby models (either in kit form or fully assembled), starter pistols, air guns, inoperative firearms or other devices which might reasonably be perceived to be a real firearm.]

    [size=(Code 1981, § 22-100; Ord. No. 109-J-2, § 1, 2-17-98)]

    [size=State law references:][size= Weapons in vehicles, MCL 312.10(g), (h), MSA 13.1339(1)(g), (h).]



    Thank you,



    xxxxxx


    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

  2. #2
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Looks good to me! Just make sure to replace "Your name here" with your name!
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    EM87 wrote:
    Looks good to me! Just make sure to replace "Your name here" with your name!
    Message "revised" :P and sent!
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

  4. #4
    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    No reply as of yet...How long should I wait before making contact again???
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

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    Jblack44 wrote:
    No reply as of yet...How long should I wait before making contact again???
    I got my first acknowledgement 2 weeks after I sent, then actual progress almost 2 months after.

    Bureaucracies take time.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I sent that to the mayor and every city council member and maybe even the city attorney with ZERO reply. I think that was a year ago.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    I sent the council members an email this morning. If not addressed, I guess the next step will be a city council meeting where it will be publicly discussed.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    If you're going to a meeting, let me know. I'll go with you.

    Shall we OC?

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    [size=I had the same type of conversation with the City of St. Clair Shores a few weeks ago. All but one of the council members ignored all of my e-mails. After a week of waiting I realized I did not send a copy to the city manager's office.
    The very next day I received a response. They were looking into making all the necessary changes to the ordinance. You may also be interested to know a few other important things.]
    [/size]
    [size=
    ]
    [/size]
    CoonDog let me know the following.


    1) Make sure he knows that the current exchange is evidence that he's been notified of the illegality of the ordinance.

    2) Also, point out that his comments will serve as evidence that he is willfully obstructing the repeal of an unlawful ordinance that he knows is illegal under state law.

    3) Then, state that if the city is unwilling to repeal an illegal ordinance, the city is willfully misinforming the public regarding their rights, under the MI Constitution--Article I, Section 6--to carry a firearm in self-defense.

    4) Furthermore, if he has discussed this with members of the city council or other city officials, he and the others are committing a conspiracy to deprive citizens of their rights under the law.

    5) Finally, state that with the above evidence and more, when discovered, that the city, and possibly himself directly, will be open to a lawsuit and liable for damages if an arrest is made under this ordinance.

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    Let me know if you two are going to the meeting. I'll go.

  11. #11
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Next meeting dates.

    September8 , 2009(Tues)

    September 21, 2009(Mon)

    Council Chambers of the Westland City Hall, 36601 Ford Road, at 7:00 p.m

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    Let me know when you plan to attend. I am not a Westland resident, but I am in/through Westland all the time. I'll come if it is allowed. Considering the remarks that the police chief has made about OCing in Westland I would like to see this wiped off the books.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    I will give it until the end of this week for some sort of written response. If not maybe we can plan on one of those dates to go. I will admit I've never been a part of a city council meeting. I assume you just notify them that you have a subject to discuss and your given your time??
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    They have a public comment portion as that is required by the open meetings act! You can tell them you are coming or not that is up to you either way they have to let you speak! They may however limit how long you can speak so know what you will say beforehand and keep it short and too the point!


    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    I received a response from the Westland Council President :celebrate




    Mr. Blacklock,

    I sent your message to our City Attorney and based on the preliminary researchhe's done regarding Westland’s dangerous weapons ordinance, it appears that there may be some merit to your position and that parts of the Ordinance may indeed be unenforceable. The attorney will be working on amendments to our ordinance and we should have something before Council in the next few months. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.]


    Best regards,

    Jim Godbout
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

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    Nice work Jblack44!


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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Schweet! I hope that I am as successful with the Royal Oak Civil Emergencies Ordinance.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/30443.html
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    Nice work!!!! Make sure to hold them to their word.

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    If there is going to be anyone at one of these meetings please post it for I live in westland and have had no trouble as of yet.But we need all of the cities to make these changes.

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    Please email me and tell me where and when. I'll be there.

    gekgun@yahoo.com

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    Hey jblack44 anything new on the city of Westland yet if not pm or email me and thekunk44 or post it will be more then happy to be at city hall can also try to be at places not to far away during the week !

  22. #22
    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    As of now, if you see my previous post I was contacted by the city council president and he informed me that the city attorney is looking into the matter and are in process of changing ordinances. I did ask to be kept up to date on this matter. So it looks like this will be ammended. If they don't take action in the next couple months then (we) should make sure it's addressed.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

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    Thanks ,I quess I missed that but thanks for getting back to me.I'll keep checking on this also.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    Update....At least the issue hasn't been swept under the rug! It still seems like it take a long time to update, barring an health issue or not. But I'm happy that it is at least moving forward. :celebrate



    His reply is above my latest e-mail regarding an update.....




    John,

    I spoke with our City Attorney earlier this week who indicated that he has about completed the recommended changes to our ordinance that will address the parts of our ordinance that are unenforceable. He has had some significant health issues over the past few months that have impacted his ability to complete this any sooner. I anticipate that we will have the changes in the next week or two and should have it on the Council agenda before the end of the year. I will keep you advised as we proceed through the process.


    Best regards,

    Jim Godbout



    From: John B [mailto:jblack64chevelle@sbcglobal.net]
    Sent: Wed 10/28/2009 7:09 AM
    To: James Godbout
    Subject: RE: City of Westland, Michigan: unenforcable City Ordinance







    Mr. Gobout,

    I wanted to contact you to see if there has been any updates regarding the situation with this Westland city ordinance. I realize that this things do take some time, but I wanted to make sure it hasn't been dropped. The rights of the citizens of Westland and the state of Michigan need to be upheld.
    I appreciate you looking into this situation and resolving the issue.

    Regards,
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

  25. #25
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    good job

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