Irresponsible

cheezhed · Aug 19, 2009

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This is the same old arguments that anti gunners have been making for as long as I can remember. We are just to stupid to control ourselves out in public. I am surprised there was no mention of streets running with blood and don't forget fights over parking spots and the inevitable dead children. these arguments are always by some one is a hunter ( which by the way is the only valid reason to own a firearm ) and of course don't forget that we are only insecure in our manhood to despite the increasing numbers of women gun owners. Personally I feel that my rights have been infringed and I am getting a little tired of it. If a person doesn't want to carry then fine but don't make a weak argument using worn out cliches and stereotypes.

AaronS · Aug 19, 2009

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Iliketohunt wrote:

Right on you got me figured out don't you. I'm a little liberal ignorant wuss, I came here to rant my "liberal" views how dare I?

Hey, if you ask me, you are in the correct place to bring this up. And if it helps us talk more, then that's good as well. I will not say a lot, but I would tend to feel that an M16 (ok AR)might not be the best "carry" gun to go see the Pres. I would have just stuck with my small .40 cal.That did look like a nice red dot AR though. I guess for me, I don't feel the needfor that fire power.

I do not know where you live, as your user info is blank, but I am in North Milwaukee. The legal carry of a gun in my area, very might save my life someday. Ihope not, but in the inner city, one never knows... A very good friend of mine lives off of 55th and North Ave. Do you know the area? Nice place, you should see the junkies on 50th and center... Fun stuff, and it is all in a school zone... If you have lived in this state for your whole life, you will have a hard time understanding gun rights. It took us about 150 years, just to get this far...

So I welcome you to keep reading the Wisconsin forum, and get to know us before you hate us. Some of us are not that bad, check it out. We are doing a highway cleanup this weekend, if you want to come.

wrightme · Aug 20, 2009

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apierce918 wrote:

i wish everyone knew how many people actually carry daily open and concealed...

they think there are a lot of guns now? lol

shed some light on them about how many are in the hands of law-abiding citizens! a lot more!

oh well

Those two statements right there highlight one reason that some choose to carry at visible events, such as political rallies.

bnhcomputing · Aug 20, 2009

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Dear ILiketoHunt:

I too like to hunt and have done it for many years. Having had opportunity to to read all the comments I would like to respond to your post with FACTS.

Fact: It is the states position that you can walk down ANY street with a loaded firearm as long as you are not within the 1000ft "school zone." This has been stated again and again to the Wisconsin State Supreme Court.

Fact: We have an EXPRESS constitutional right to do so. Article 1, Section 25 States: "The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation, or any other lawful purpose." Please notice my highlighting.

Fact: Recently a gentleman walking down the street, with a firearm was detained, had his firearm seized, was taken to his home, and then his firearm was returned.

Fact: (I bet Doug can cite), we are afforded EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW. If LEO can legally disarm the individual in Madison, the can legallyDISARM THE HUNTER WALKING DOWN THE ROAD AS WELL.

Fact: The Wisconsin State Constitution applies to the ENTIRE STATE, not just the rural areas. After all, at one time all of Wisconsin was a rural area.

You claim you will not support those who carry for personal protection. Please consider that they probably won't support those who carry for hunting (Wisconsin divided).

So here we (hunters) are, walking down the road with our firearms (many hunt with hand guns). If an anti hunter claims we "disturbed them" we must be detained, disarmed, and taken home. After all, we are performing the same action as the fella in Madison, walking down the road with a firearm.

I can see your argument already, but we don't hunt in downtown Madison, you are right, and the guy in Madison wasn't hunting either.

We Hunters had better realize, that once they take the rights from the non-huntersthey will them come after us. If I were a non-hunter and, because of the hunters lack of support, I lost my right to carry a firearm, I certainly would take the hunter's right to carryas well. Remember, gun owners are a minority, and those who hunt, are a minority of the gun owners.

This isn't about "needs / wants." This is about rights, all our rights.

Together we stand, divided we fall.

J.Gleason · Aug 20, 2009

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AaronS wrote:

Iliketohunt wrote:

Right on you got me figured out don't you. I'm a little liberal ignorant wuss, I came here to rant my "liberal" views how dare I?

Click to expand...

Hey, if you ask me, you are in the correct place to bring this up. And if it helps us talk more, then that's good as well. I will not say a lot, but I would tend to feel that an M16 (ok AR)might not be the best "carry" gun to go see the Pres. I would have just stuck with my small .40 cal.That did look like a nice red dot AR though. I guess for me, I don't feel the needfor that fire power.

I do not know where you live, as your user info is blank, but I am in North Milwaukee. The legal carry of a gun in my area, very might save my life someday. Ihope not, but in the inner city, one never knows... A very good friend of mine lives off of 55th and North Ave. Do you know the area? Nice place, you should see the junkies on 50th and center... Fun stuff, and it is all in a school zone... If you have lived in this state for your whole life, you will have a hard time understanding gun rights. It took us about 150 years, just to get this far...

So I welcome you to keep reading the Wisconsin forum, and get to know us before you hate us. Some of us are not that bad, check it out. We are doing a highway cleanup this weekend, if you want to come.

Aaron,
Didn't your parents teach you not to pet a dog who's tail is not wagging...Just kidding.

But for the record, the 2nd Amendment says, "Right to bear arms" it doesn't say handguns only. We must not forget that.

The message being sent to the politicians is clear, straighten up or we will take over! Simple as that!

Doug Huffman · Aug 20, 2009

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United we stand, divided we fall.

My road, the county road that I live on, has private property on both sides for all but a few hundred yards of County Park at my northern property line. Every deer season strangers dressed in blaze orange stalk down the center line of the road while armed.

How in the hell do they think they can shoot onto private property, or pursue their wounded prey onto private property, given Wisconsin trespassing law and as it applies to hunting.

I think that I'll call the cop this fall with MWAG and see how he responds.

Nutczak · Aug 20, 2009

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Just in case the OP comes back maybe it is time some points are brought up about how every single legal firearm owners rights are currentlythreatened.

Ever hear of the "ammunition accountability act" that would effectively outlaw all handloading. What do you think that would do to all the competition shooters and hunters like myself that load their own ammunition specifically for each individual firearm for the best accuracy/

How about the guys that load their own for trap & Skeet matches, AndHandgun competitors go through copious amounts of ammunition in practicing and shooting.

The talking heads in government think that only criminals own firearms and are creating laws they think will make it more difficult to own and feed their guns. They do not realize the overwhelming majority of firearms are owned by law abiding citizens and these news laws will only affect the legal firearm owners. By people legally wearing theirfirearms in the open at public gatherings, it shows these clueless politicians that we, the law abiding, voting, tax-paying citizens own guns and we will vote to remove the politician that are trying to disarm us the law abiding citizen.

How about these politicians that are frightened by the looks of an AR-15, Ak-47, SKS, Mini-14& 30. They try to outlaw any and all semi-auto firearm because of it while not even realizing they are no different than the semi-auto's you and I use for several types of hunting.

Lets look at one of the latest proposed bills, it stated that no firearm could hold more than 5 rounds. How many Mossberg pump action shotguns would that have made illegal? (every single one) what about the Rem 1100's & 870's, how about most revolver, and semi auto. The clueless politician will not be happy until we have nothing left but muzzleloaders, and then they will go after those too.

We are standing up for our rights by showing that we the law abiding citizens own and carry firearms for defense of ourselves and others and are proud of it. We do not hide our firearms like criminals do, we were them proudly to show that every time a firearm is seen it is not being used in a crime or takingthe life of another human being.

Hiding our firearms and keeping quiet on the issues gets us nowhere, while showing the politicians and general public we will not tolerate anyomore infringment on our rights will make a difference.

J.Gleason · Aug 20, 2009

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Nutczak wrote:

Lets look at one of the latest proposed bills,

We better be looking at "ALL" of the proposed bills because some where along the line these tyrants will try to sneak a bill in with another where we would not expect.

For example, It could be a bill on round abouts and have a provision attached to mandate fire arms registration or serial markings on ammunition and we would not even know it.

Keep your eyes and mind open!

apierce918 · Aug 20, 2009

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wrightme wrote:

apierce918 wrote:

i wish everyone knew how many people actually carry daily open and concealed...

they think there are a lot of guns now? lol

shed some light on them about how many are in the hands of law-abiding citizens! a lot more!

oh well

Click to expand...

Those two statements right there highlight one reason that some choose to carry at visible events, such as political rallies.

right.

I think nation wide though, conceal carriers far out number open carriers...

when people are being surprised of these open carry picnics with a few dozen people making the evening news...

if everyone open carried who normally carries concealed along with the regular open carriers.. the sheep and the media would just be :what:

and it would be the lowest crime rate in a 24 hour period ever recorded:celebrate

Lammie · Aug 21, 2009

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Iliketohunt:

Don't underestimate the intelligence and knowledge of the members of this forum. We do not always agree with each other andoften do squabble among ourselves, but when it comes to an assault on our gun rights we will stand back to back and defend them with all our vigor.

And by the way I own 30 guns and have been an avid hunter for 61 years.

LS16SpdZ99 · Aug 21, 2009

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I guess all the inmates in wisconsin prisions are from other states.

hugh jarmis · Aug 21, 2009

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The other REALLY ironic part about "iliketohunt"'s claim:

I really like to be safe

and

I'm not saying you all are idiots, but it only takes one negative incident

Anyone want to take a guess how many people are accidentally injured or killed every year from law-abiding citizens open-carrying (or concealled carrying for that matter) compared to how many people are accidentally shot hunting every year?

Hunting is FAR FAR FAR more dangerous than open-carrying for self defense. INCREDIBLY SO!

Now I'm a hunter, so I'm not suggesting we don't hunt. But when you hunt you intentionally are throwing lead around some very public areas, dozens of times a day. People are accidentally shot ALL the time in this country in hunting accidents.

Between 1999 and 2007 there have been 351 accidental shootings in Wisconsin from hunting according to the DNR. (not all were fatal of course)

That averages to about 44 per year. FORTY FOUR accidental shootings a year.

We've had open carry in practice now for what... a half a year. Not a single accident. Not a single shot fired? And "iliketohunt" is worried about OUR safety?

Good grief????

J.Gleason · Aug 21, 2009

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hugh jarmis wrote:

Between 1999 and 2007 there have been 351 accidental shootings in Wisconsin from hunting according to the DNR. (not all were fatal of course)

And those were only the ones reported!

And lest we forget, Dick Cheney!

Nutczak · Aug 21, 2009

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Good point Hugh! I personally know 3 different people that have been accidentally shot while hunting, yet I do notknow a single person that has been shot by someone carrying a firearm for self-defense, or that was forced to shoot someone else in defense.

Hiding our firearms from view with hopes that new laws are not enacted to further infringe on our rights is not a viable plan. We need to show that law abiding citizens carry firearms everyday, but are not the ones responsible for shooting injuries and deaths.

I still have a gut feeling ILTH is the clown from De Pere who's rant I quoted a page back. It is too similar to not be him.

Lammie · Aug 21, 2009

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety---Benjamin Franklin 1759

Doug Huffman · Aug 21, 2009

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hugh jarmis wrote:

But when you hunt you intentionally are throwing lead around some very public areas, dozens of times a day. People are accidentally shot ALL the time in this country in hunting accidents.

What an impeachment of hunters as spokesmen for gun safety or instructors.

Interceptor_Knight · Aug 21, 2009

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Iliketohunt wrote:

Infringing on your rights to bear arms? Nobody is infringing on the 2nd amendment we have other issues in this country more important than owning a gun. If you really want to shoot an automatic weapon you can get the collectors permit; or join the military like I did. In the military you'll shoot so much it won't even be fun anymore to plink with an auto.

I'm not saying you all are idiots,

Don't pee down our backs and tell us it's raining....

I don't believe that a single word in any of your 3 posts is genuine. You are usingcanned gun grabber statements. What exactly is "the collectors permit"? I don't expect you to actually have an answer for this as you appear to be uninformed and not really a firearms advocate. If you really did serve in a branch of the US armed forces, you should appreciate the sacrifices made by all veterans so that others can enjoy all of our rights and liberties including the 2nd amendment. The simple fact that you are dismissing the significance of the second amendment and are so willing to throw it out is evidence of you being a troll.....

I am a US Marine Corps Veteran. I fired more than my share of full autos while I served and I still enjoy shooting full auto at every opportunity I get. Unfortunately it is has only been 2 or 3 times per year.

You may not personally value the ability to legally carry a firearm in order to defend your family from harm but I and others do. You may choose not to, but you need to respect our decision to do so.

BB62 · Aug 21, 2009

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May I make a suggestion?

DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

Interceptor_Knight · Aug 21, 2009

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hugh jarmis wrote:

Now I'm a hunter, so I'm not suggesting we don't hunt. But when you hunt you intentionally are throwing lead around some very public areas, dozens of times a day. People are accidentally shot ALL the time in this country in hunting accidents.

Between 1999 and 2007 there have been 351 accidental shootings in Wisconsin from hunting according to the DNR. (not all were fatal of course)

That averages to about 44 per year. FORTY FOUR accidental shootings a year.

I do not believe that you are prepared to play statistic ping pong. You are suggesting that hunters are less safe than everyone else who handles a gun in WI each year. Ifit isa premise of yoursthat bullets are more dangerous when they leave the barrel, it would be asound one.

There are simply no statistics available for all negligent discharges each year. It is the norm that only those which result in an injury are recorded and tracked. The difference between an injury and a near miss is often just purely blind stupid luck.

If you were just trying to illustrate that Open Carry has very little inherent risk, you would be correct except that a number of the shooting injuries each year are from loading and unloading of firearms whether or not the person is doing so for the purpose of hunting. Another applicable statistic would be the number of negligent discharges which occur each year by the various LEOs. This could be used to support the premise that Open Carry is relatively safe or unsafe depending on the data.

Brass Magnet · Aug 21, 2009

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:

hugh jarmis wrote:

Now I'm a hunter, so I'm not suggesting we don't hunt. But when you hunt you intentionally are throwing lead around some very public areas, dozens of times a day. People are accidentally shot ALL the time in this country in hunting accidents.

Between 1999 and 2007 there have been 351 accidental shootings in Wisconsin from hunting according to the DNR. (not all were fatal of course)

That averages to about 44 per year. FORTY FOUR accidental shootings a year.

Click to expand...

I do not believe that you are prepared to play statistic ping pong. You are suggesting that hunters are less safe than everyone else who handles a gun in WI each year.

I believe he's pretty much right.

It's not that the hunters are less safe about handling firearms, it's that the act of hunting itself is less safe than OC for defense.

One could argue that hunting is nearly half as dangerous as being a soldier. Half as dangerous as you aren't gettting shot at by your intended prey.

Waiting silently in ambush.

Stalking silently.

A group assault (....a deer drive)

These same things get guys that are on the same side shot during battle.

Irresponsible

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