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Thread: Pierce County Court House

  1. #1
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Arrive just before 10am at the main entrance ( Tacoma Ave). I tell them I need to check a weapon and am told that I need to go around to the back of the building to the 2nd floor entrance (the one with the pay lot attached). I arrive at the door to find a Deputy waiting.
    He asks "do you intend to take your weapon into the court house?" I say "no, I intend to check my weapon before entering." He takes me to the side and asks what type of weapon and if there is any retention. I tell him open top and its a 1911. He has me turn to the side and he removes my weapon, places it in a cloth "evidence" bag (no lock boxes). Hands me a form to fill out with my name, then asks for my ID (to verify against the form) and my CPL, which he places in the bag with the weapon and hands me my weapon retrieval card. I ask why he needs the CPL and all I get is its required. I don't have time to debate it so I let it go, this time.

    Fast forward 2.5 hrs. I go to retrieve my weapon and its a 25 min wait. I talk with the security team while waiting and ask them a few question about carrying. I find out they have no knowledge of the laws. They ask me A LOT of questions about carrying which I answer. The deputy arrives, I get my weapon and I'm on my way.

    1 hr later I have to be back so this time I leave the CPL in the vehicle. Arrive to check a weapon and wait almost 10 minutes for someone to arrive. While waiting I gave the security team some WGR pamphlets, who all took one and pocketed them. Deputy arrives, same process as before; fill out form, show ID, "what do you mean you don't have a CPL?" I'm OpenCarrying I say, no need for one. He hands me my weapon retrieval card, bags the weapon and bids me a good day.

    While in the court room and standing before the judge, she notices I am wearing a holster. She pauses and asks me if that is indeed what it is. I reply with yes, I checked a weapon with security as I hold up my weapon retrieval card. I get a blinking stare for at least a minute, then she goes back to the paperwork, finishes signing it all. I'm told I can pick up copies in 2-3 days and I'm excused. Whoo-hoo no more child support payments. :celebrateAll done, I head to get my weapon and its another 20 minute wait before it arrives.

    The kicker to all of this is that the secure room where the Deputies are located is about 40 feet from the security checkpoint. What the hell takes so long?? Also, does anyone know what they do once they have the weapons in their possession?





  2. #2
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    So they just place a 1911 that is Condition 1 in a cloth bag without trigger protection? I think I'd have recommended they allow me to remove the holster with the gun still in it -- too many LEOs that seem to have no familiarity with the 1911 controls.

    Gotta love the judge's reaction, though.

    Charles

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    When I went down to the local police department to fill out the paper work for my cpl I had to check my pistol to do the fingerprints and they let me leave in the holster.

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    They used to have a big wall of gun lockers. I don't remember exactly where, but I've used it, and I know I entered on floor 2.

  5. #5
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    M1Gunr wrote:
    [SNIP]
    He has me turn to the side and he removes my weapon, places it in a cloth "evidence" bag (no lock boxes). Hands me a form to fill out with my name, then asks for my ID (to verify against the form) and my CPL, which he places in the bag with the weapon and hands me my weapon retrieval card. I ask why he needs the CPL and all I get is its required. I don't have time to debate it so I let it go, this time.

    [SNIP]
    [Emphasis added by shad0wfax]
    This is a BIG no-no. You are never required to surrender your CPL. You are required to display your CPL. In fact, in many situations not having your CPL in your possession is a criminal offense. The law is very clear on its language when it comes to the CPL and the only time you would ever be forced to surrender it is if you had been convicted of some kind of offense that makes you ineligible to have a CPL.

    At no time should you ever be asked to give your CPL to anyone. It is something you must retain possession of and display on demand when required by law to do so...

  7. #7
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    shad0wfax wrote:
    "This is a BIG no-no. You are never required to surrender your CPL. You are required to display your CPL. In fact, in many situations not having your CPL in your possession is a criminal offense. The law is very clear on its language when it comes to the CPL and the only time you would ever be forced to surrender it is if you had been convicted of some kind of offense that makes you ineligible to have a CPL.

    At no time should you ever be asked to give your CPL to anyone. It is something you must retain possession of and display on demand when required by law to do so..."



    Ok,I willbite. Your post implies that you must have your CPL on your personregardless if you have afirearm on you or not. The OP no longer had a firearm on him, so why would he need his CPL?

    It seems that many OCers have a CPL, but leave it in the car where they need it. In their contacts with LEO while OCingI haven't seen anyone state that they were busted for not having their CPL on them using yourrationale thatthe CPLwas issued to you so you must carry it at all times regardless of having a firearm or not.


  8. #8
    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    Lowski wrote:
    Ok,I willbite. Your post implies that you must have your CPL on your personregardless if you have afirearm on you or not. The OP no longer had a firearm on him, so why would he need his CPL?

    It seems that many OCers have a CPL, but leave it in the car where they need it. In their contacts with LEO while OCingI haven't seen anyone state that they were busted for not having their CPL on them using yourrationale thatthe CPLwas issued to you so you must carry it at all times regardless of having a firearm or not.
    In some circumstances you absolutely must have a CPL in your possession even if the firearm is not in your possession. Here's what RCW 9.41.050 has to say about this (with the bold-faced sections highlighted by me for emphasis.)


    (1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

    (b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.


    (3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

    (4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.

    Thus, if you do not have your CPL in your immediate possession at all times when you are required by law to have a CPL, you are guilty of a class 1 civil infraction. Thus, handing your CPL to an LEO who is investigating some other infraction or probable cause incident while you have a loaded pistol concealed on your person is a class 1 civil infraction. The law requires that you display your CPL to the officer, not hand it to him. In fact, the law forbids you from handing your CPL to him, as it is now in his possession, not yours.
    Take the same example above but add a vehicle in the mix and the offenses go from class 1 civil infractions up to misdemeanors. I you have a loaded pistol locked inside of your car and hidden from view and you gave your CPL to an LEO while you were outside of your vehicle, you are guilty of a misdemeanor. Giving your CPL to an LEO to look at while he has detained you for a traffic infraction is a misdemeanor if you have a loaded pistol somewhere in your vehicle, but not on your person while you are still in your vehicle. Giving your CPL to an LEO during the course of a traffic infraction investigation while you have a loaded pistol on your person while in your vehicle is also a misdemeanor.
    The law is very clear that anytime you are required by law to have a CPL, that CPL must be in your immediate possession at all times. It ramps up from class 1 civil infraction to a misdemeanor (which is criminal) if it involves a vehicle.



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    M1, When I went to get my wife's CPL I had to wait for someone. When they arrived they asked if it was loaded and I said yes. He told me to leave it in the holster and hand it to him. He then asked If I had my cpl and I said yes but I didn't need it because I was OCing. He told me they just put it with the gun to know who's gun it is.

  10. #10
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Arrived today minus the CPL. Alerted security I needed to check a weapon and within 5 minutes the deputy arrived. I placed my weapon in the cloth evidence bag, signed the form and continued into the courthouse. Very uneventful today.

  11. #11
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    They have lock boxes at Whatcom county courthouse in down town Bellingham,when I checked my firearm there they give you the key, sign above says I.D. required, they don't handle the weapon at all.

    I think your story is good and if they can they will always ask for cpl. I liked how you handled that the second time in I am going to do the same thing.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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