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Thread: Gun Vault

  1. #1
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    IguessI don't know where to start.I have called 3 different police departments and got 3 different answers. go figure. my question is if i install a gun vault in my truck does it have to be in plain view? can it be under my back seat ( i have a suburban)? doest it have to be all the way in the back of the truck??I don't know and it seems that thePDsI called don't know either. the answersI received were gun vaults are illegal to have in Vehicles, the vault has to be in plain view and the last one was it can be under the seat as long as it is out of reach. does anyone have a gun vault or can clarify the rules.thanks



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    *I* think that the 'rules' are perfectly clear though clearly impractical.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/27414.html
    http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0167.pdf

    167.31 Safe use and transportation of firearms and
    bows.

    (b) “Encased” means enclosed in a case that is expressly made
    for the purpose of containing a firearm and that is completely
    zipped, snapped, buckled, tied or otherwise fastened with no part
    of the firearm exposed.

    2) PROHIBITIONS; MOTORBOATS AND VEHICLES; HIGHWAYS AND
    ROADWAYS.

    (b) Except as provided in sub. (4), no person may place, possess
    or transport a firearm, bow or crossbow in or on a vehicle,
    unless the firearm is unloaded and encased or unless the bow or
    crossbow is unstrung or is enclosed in a carrying case.

    http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0941.pdf

    941.23 Carrying concealed weapon. Any person except
    a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous
    weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Notwithstanding s.
    939.22 (22), for purposes of this section, peace officer does not
    include a commission warden who is not a state−certified commission
    warden.
    History: 1977 c. 173; 1979 c. 115, 221; 2007 a. 27.

    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of
    s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach;
    2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).


  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    LS16SpdZ99 wrote:
    IguessI don't know where to start.I have called 3 different police departments and got 3 different answers. go figure. my question is if i install a gun vault in my truck does it have to be in plain view? can it be under my back seat ( i have a suburban)? doest it have to be all the way in the back of the truck??I don't know and it seems that thePDsI called don't know either. the answersI received were gun vaults are illegal to have in Vehicles, the vault has to be in plain view and the last one was it can be under the seat as long as it is out of reach. does anyone have a gun vault or can clarify the rules.thanks

    Firstly, the disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and what follows is my opinion; I've been wrong before.

    There are two laws that you basically have to worry about here:


    Wisconsin Stat. § 167.31 (Transportation in a motor vehicle.)
    Wisconsin Stat. § 941.23 (Concealed weapon prohibition.)


    For a weapon to be concealed there are three criteria:

    1. The weapon must be hidden.

    2. You must be aware of the weapon.

    3. The weapon must be within reach.

    To comply with 167.31 you would have to put the firearm inside a case before putting it into the vault, essentially it would be double-cased.

    If you've checked out Dougs video post you can see that technically, the moment you have a cased firearm in your hand, it fits the criteria to be considered concealed and leaves you open to a violation of 941.23.

    If you place the case in your vault and then put the firearm inside of it you are in violation of 167.31

    Once the firearm is cased, and in your vault; if your vault is in the trunk you are complying with both statutes. It is properly cased and out of reach.

    If one could magically teleport your firearm into a case, into a vault, and into your trunk you wouldn't need to violate any of the laws.



    This mess that is Wisconsins gun law is probably why you can't get an answer from an LEO.
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  4. #4
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    I have called 3 different police departments


  5. #5
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    here is the part that will get you,

    "A firearm must be fully encased before placing it in any vehicle. So if you plan on having some sort of gun safe in your truck, you will first need to case the gun in a fully closed gun case outside of the vehiclebefore putting it in the safe. It is stupid, but that is what we currently need to deal with. It does not matter wher the vault is, just as long as the firearms are cased in something else before being put in the vault.

    lets say I am coming back from hunting, I unlaod the gun at my truck, I set the case on the tailgate of my truck to keep it off the muddy ground, right when I slide my gun into that open case, I will be breaking currentWI law. Becuase I cannot place a gun in or on any vehicle unless it is complely encased first. (and unloaded)

    If I was going to install a gun vault in my truck, I would have it under the rear seat, and have gun -socks for every firearm on the gun before putting it inthe vault to stay within the current law.



  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Get you state legislators to support Decker's open carry invehicle law change.

    The DNR was the orginal source of Wisconsin'sgoofy requirements concerning firearms andvehicles.


    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

  7. #7
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    How do you eat an elephant? One mouthful at a time takes forever. That is 'piecemeal'. Here is wholehog

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/30125.html

  8. #8
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    I would not have a problem with the double case issue. i want to protect my guns from getting into the wrong hands in case of my truck getting broke into. the reason i called 3 PDs is the first one told me it is illegal to have a gun vault in my truck. he told me it was the same as if it was locked in my glove box.??? that put up a red flag andI knew he was full of it. thenI called my home pd and they said it was legal and i could put it under my back seat as long as i cant reach it. then they cant prove malicious intent. then i called the troopers and they said to be "safe" keep it as far as i can away from me. it seems it all falls on the interpretation of the laws from one to another

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    LS16SpdZ99 wrote:
    I would not have a problem with the double case issue. i want to protect my guns from getting into the wrong hands in case of my truck getting broke into. the reason i called 3 PDs is the first one told me it is illegal to have a gun vault in my truck. he told me it was the same as if it was locked in my glove box.??? that put up a red flag andI knew he was full of it. thenI called my home pd and they said it was legal and i could put it under my back seat as long as i cant reach it. then they cant prove malicious intent. then i called the troopers and they said to be "safe" keep it as far as i can away from me. it seems it all falls on the interpretation of the laws from one to another
    Cops do not decide what is legal or illegal. They can only enforce the law as they understand it by arresting and incarcerating you pending the decision by of a prosecuting attorney. The District Attorney may charge/indict a criminal violation.

  10. #10
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    LS16SpdZ99:

    As far as I know none of us have identified ourselves as being jurists. Do a Google search on State v. Fry and State v. Fisher; read them and draw your own conclusions.

  11. #11
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    LS16SpdZ99 wrote:
    I would not have a problem with the double case issue. i want to protect my guns from getting into the wrong hands in case of my truck getting broke into. the reason i called 3 PDs is the first one told me it is illegal to have a gun vault in my truck. he told me it was the same as if it was locked in my glove box.??? that put up a red flag andI knew he was full of it. thenI called my home pd and they said it was legal and i could put it under my back seat as long as i cant reach it. then they cant prove malicious intent. then i called the troopers and they said to be "safe" keep it as far as i can away from me. it seems it all falls on the interpretation of the laws from one to another
    Cops do not decide what is legal or illegal. They can only enforce the law as they understand it by arresting and incarcerating you pending the decision by of a prosecuting attorney. The District Attorney may charge/indict a criminal violation.
    I don't know Doug. I agree that it is not the job of a cop to decide what is legal or not, but I do have to insist that they do it every day... Our "top cop" in Milwaukee told us that he would have his cops throw me to the ground,take my side arm away,and then decide if I have the right to carry. I think a lot of cops enforce what they want the laws to be, and just hope the DA will see it the same way...

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