A Warning Over Political Sabotoge

imported post

You can call it paranoia but I don't. Throughout recorded history, when a particular cause starts to gain ground and those who oppose it realize that they can't defeat it using traditional and lawful means, they will outright try to sabatoge it to make the other side look bad.

Our OCgatherings are not only highly successful, they are starting to gather statewide and even national attention. I have been to two of these OC dinners at restaurants and to my knowledge there have only been a handful of them and these have only recently started. Of the 4-6 or so dinners we have had including one of them that I've been to, the media has shown up and put coverage on the news in Phoenix. Now that about a dozen people (who probably are not even affiliated with OCDO) decided to show up to protest Obama's lectures, open carry is now making national news.

Since these gatherings are all voluntary and done without any official leadership (which is a good thing in my opinion), most of us don't even know each other outside of the forums or outside of the dinners and nobody knows everybody else present. With the public attention these gatherings are gaining, there is a risk that some individuals may attend who are not on our side. I believe that it is important to be aware of our surroundings at these events to any suspicious characters who may cause a problem. This could be something as simple as an OCer (who is actually with the anti-gun group) "accidently" discharging a firearm in the restaurant. Something like that could seriously damage what we are doing. Therefore, we should continue to enjoy these dinners and other events but keep our eyes open for anyone who could be a problem and if someone is demonstrating to be a problem (i.e. someone taking out their firearm and handling it recklessly)to have them quickly removed from the gathering.

imported post

agreed - especially at political events .

imported post

Agreed.

However, the simple solution is to shoot the provocatuer "in self-defense" and "in defense of others." Problem solved. And it would tend to discourageprovocatuer-ism. (joke)

imported post

Good call.

DemocRats have been known to do just such a thing. But, I believe their cowardly nature would prevent them from going this far. However, I will also contradict myself and say that there are a great number of extreme zealots in their ranks, and I would not put it past them to buy a gun, pose as 'one of us' and do something much worse than 'negligently discharge.' They can't find an example to back up their claims, so they'll take it upon themselves to create it.

Vigilance.

imported post

ixtow wrote:

Good call.

DemocRats have been known to do just such a thing. But, I believe their cowardly nature would prevent them from going this far. However, I will also contradict myself and say that there are a great number of extreme zealots in their ranks, and I would not put it past them to buy a gun, pose as 'one of us' and do something much worse than 'negligently discharge.' They can't find an example to back up their claims, so they'll take it upon themselves to create it.

Vigilance.

Click to expand...

Some on both sides are misanthropic and have money which can buy a union-thug type.

Vigilance, yes.

imported post

I have to agree with Protector84. These people cannot be trusted and I don't put anything past them.

I wouldn't put it past them to find some schizophrenic loser to take a handgun into a place where there's likely to be lawful carriers, expecting him to be shot to death when he comes unglued and pulls the gun out,so that he can't be traced back to them. Then claim, "Seeeee! We told ya those crazy gun toterscan't be trusted!"

imported post

I'm doubting any of them have the sack to do it, even if they think of it. It is the nature of what they are; cowards.

I think it will be great to see when one of these ACORN thugs tries to beat down someone and an OC/CC is around. Considering the SS's reaction, so far, has been educated and well, non-responsive to a non-crime... And the amount of publicity this has gotten... Local Cops cannot possibly still be in the dark.

The Obamacites have been the instigators and the ones resorting to violence to ensure that only their message is heard.

"grave bodily harm and/or death"

I think that, if they pull a false flag op to sabotage, the BEST thing that could happen is that other CC/OC people do exactly what they carry for! Shoot that bastard and say 'see, it does work! The crazy came in here, and we shut his ass down.'

Once they consider how easily the whole thing could go in our favor... I really don't think anyone will be willing to be a martyr for a cause so likely to backfire.

But recognition of the presumes intelligence; something these kind of people don't have a lot of.

imported post

ixtow wrote:

I'm doubting any of them have the sack to do it, even if they think of it. It is the nature of what they are; cowards.

Click to expand...

Never, ever, underestimate the opposition. Some of those "cowards", as you call them, are psychotic individuals and can be very dangerous. Remember, these are irrational people we are talking about, they don'treason like we do. They are apt to do anything imaginable if they think it will help their cause.

imported post

ixtow wrote:

Good call.

DemocRats have been known to do just such a thing. But, I believe their cowardly nature would prevent them from going this far. However, I will also contradict myself and say that there are a great number of extreme zealots in their ranks, and I would not put it past them to buy a gun, pose as 'one of us' and do something much worse than 'negligently discharge.' They can't find an example to back up their claims, so they'll take it upon themselves to create it.

Vigilance.

Click to expand...

Okay I've read about enough of this crap already, I cannot believe the type of simple minded garbage coming out of the mouths of fellow gun rights activists.

Regardless of what the extreme side of the anti-gun has spewed at us (redneck, hillbilly, racists, whatever they want to paint the average 2A person), it only makes you look simple minded to respond with the same type of garbage.

I am a democrat, and hold many of their values in high esteem. I have NEVER been against guns in any shape or form. I know a few democrats that are pro-gun. I know a few republicans that are so anti-gun it's ridiculous.

I also believe this type of attitude is exactly the wrong type of attention the pro-2a crowd needs. I don't like the name calling at pro-2a people any more than the next guy, but you have to beat them where it counts and that's in the legislator. You damage our cause with every dumb comment made, and I have no idea why this type of crap is spewed especially prominently in the Arizona forum.

But continue to segregate your followers, as if republican = pro gun and democrat = anti gun.

imported post

LuvmyXD9 wrote:

ixtow wrote:

Good call.

DemocRats have been known to do just such a thing. But, I believe their cowardly nature would prevent them from going this far. However, I will also contradict myself and say that there are a great number of extreme zealots in their ranks, and I would not put it past them to buy a gun, pose as 'one of us' and do something much worse than 'negligently discharge.' They can't find an example to back up their claims, so they'll take it upon themselves to create it.

Vigilance.

Click to expand...

Okay I've read about enough of this crap already, I cannot believe the type of simple minded garbage coming out of the mouths of fellow gun rights activists.

Regardless of what the extreme side of the anti-gun has spewed at us (redneck, hillbilly, racists, whatever they want to paint the average 2A person), it only makes you look simple minded to respond with the same type of garbage.

I am a democrat, and hold many of their values in high esteem. I have NEVER been against guns in any shape or form. I know a few democrats that are pro-gun. I know a few republicans that are so anti-gun it's ridiculous.

I also believe this type of attitude is exactly the wrong type of attention the pro-2a crowd needs. I don't like the name calling at pro-2a people any more than the next guy, but you have to beat them where it counts and that's in the legislator. You damage our cause with every dumb comment made, and I have no idea why this type of crap is spewed especially prominently in the Arizona forum.

But continue to segregate your followers, as if republican = pro gun and democrat = anti gun.

Click to expand...

If one examines the party's platform; democrats ARE anti-gun. Just because there are a few who say you aren't, yet still vote for all the politicians who want to strip them away... uh... yeah. I think you wish we were simple-minded enough not to notice that.

But you have a valid point on Republicans not always being pro-gun. Bush was an anti. All imperialists are....

imported post

Two problems with this logic....
1. They wouldn't know how to get a gun to bring to a rally.
2. And most of their thugs are already violent repeat offenders
banned from having guns.

Now the UOC states might get a few once they explain it is
just like having a whistle, not a dangerous gun.
Just blow in the end and it makes a noise. :celebrate
Maybe offer to let them borrow a few bi-tone models so they can get picked up
for having a banned evil gun on them. Now that would be funny,
"but they all have guns too"
Yes, but yours is an evil one.

imported post

ixtow wrote:

LuvmyXD9 wrote:

ixtow wrote:

Good call.

DemocRats have been known to do just such a thing. But, I believe their cowardly nature would prevent them from going this far. However, I will also contradict myself and say that there are a great number of extreme zealots in their ranks, and I would not put it past them to buy a gun, pose as 'one of us' and do something much worse than 'negligently discharge.' They can't find an example to back up their claims, so they'll take it upon themselves to create it.

Vigilance.

Click to expand...

Okay I've read about enough of this crap already, I cannot believe the type of simple minded garbage coming out of the mouths of fellow gun rights activists.

Regardless of what the extreme side of the anti-gun has spewed at us (redneck, hillbilly, racists, whatever they want to paint the average 2A person), it only makes you look simple minded to respond with the same type of garbage.

I am a democrat, and hold many of their values in high esteem. I have NEVER been against guns in any shape or form. I know a few democrats that are pro-gun. I know a few republicans that are so anti-gun it's ridiculous.

I also believe this type of attitude is exactly the wrong type of attention the pro-2a crowd needs. I don't like the name calling at pro-2a people any more than the next guy, but you have to beat them where it counts and that's in the legislator. You damage our cause with every dumb comment made, and I have no idea why this type of crap is spewed especially prominently in the Arizona forum.

But continue to segregate your followers, as if republican = pro gun and democrat = anti gun.

Click to expand...

If one examines the party's platform; democrats ARE anti-gun. Just because there are a few who say you aren't, yet still vote for all the politicians who want to strip them away... uh... yeah. I think you wish we were simple-minded enough not to notice that.

But you have a valid point on Republicans not always being pro-gun. Bush was an anti. All imperialists are....

Click to expand...

Because every single democrat is entirely 100% democrat, right?

I vote based on a huge range of subjects, not JUST blindly gun control. I am looking to preserve ALL of my rights, not just the second.

And only a fool votes by party.

imported post

Hi folks
RJ here, new and ready to get into the fray.
I"m a regular over on AZS, and we have been widely successful on the OC dinners, and have frequently discussed the OP's issue of individuals perhaps being planted to create issues.
Unfortunatly this is a fact of life anytime sucess comes to events others do not agree with.
Regardless of this fear, we have continued on with careful review of all entering our event. Usually someone knows someone else.
WE have had a few crossovers from this site, hence my desire to join and partake in any event and progress we may derive from added membership.

I ask all who wish to join in to come to an OC dinner nite, I will happily post up the information as I discussed with John Rosado at the Casa Grande OC dinner, with hopes you would all join us in the statement.
I'm known as "knockonit" over at AZS, but almost all also know me as "RJ", my sorely reputation precedes my time.
I look forward to meeting more of the local OC members and hope for success in our endeavors.
regards
Ric J.

imported post

LuvmyXD9 wrote:

I also believe this type of attitude is exactly the wrong type of attention the pro-2a crowd needs.

Click to expand...

what attitude would that be?

imported post

DKSuddeth wrote:

LuvmyXD9 wrote:

I also believe this type of attitude is exactly the wrong type of attention the pro-2a crowd needs.

Click to expand...

what attitude would that be?

Click to expand...

Insulting people you are trying to convert or overcome is not the correct or intelligent way to further your cause.

Forgive me if I don't spoon feed things to you, but I believe two of the terms used in this thread alone have been "DemocRat", "coward" among other below the belt shots.

Whether or not they agree with you on gun control does not change the fact that they are your fellow citizens and human beings.

imported post

Wow, it seems some have a believe that the dims are re reason for all thats wrong in the world today.
I say its all politicians. I know many on each side of the fence and count them friends, even though we do not agree on their stance which typically opposes mine.
At present the deciding line between parties IMO is very vague, they all need to be held responsible for their misguided attempt to govern those that do not need it.
Take look at the earmarks 40% to the republicans, yeah right.

As for the balance of the OP, it always pays to be aware of who joins in on festivities regardless where you are, it is safe to assume that there will be a snake in the grass, and be prepared to incapcitate said snake before the strike.

Watch and be aware and be prepared.

imported post

LuvmyXD9 wrote:

ixtow wrote:

LuvmyXD9 wrote:

ixtow wrote:

Good call.

DemocRats have been known to do just such a thing. But, I believe their cowardly nature would prevent them from going this far. However, I will also contradict myself and say that there are a great number of extreme zealots in their ranks, and I would not put it past them to buy a gun, pose as 'one of us' and do something much worse than 'negligently discharge.' They can't find an example to back up their claims, so they'll take it upon themselves to create it.

Vigilance.

Click to expand...

Okay I've read about enough of this crap already, I cannot believe the type of simple minded garbage coming out of the mouths of fellow gun rights activists.

Regardless of what the extreme side of the anti-gun has spewed at us (redneck, hillbilly, racists, whatever they want to paint the average 2A person), it only makes you look simple minded to respond with the same type of garbage.

I am a democrat, and hold many of their values in high esteem. I have NEVER been against guns in any shape or form. I know a few democrats that are pro-gun. I know a few republicans that are so anti-gun it's ridiculous.

I also believe this type of attitude is exactly the wrong type of attention the pro-2a crowd needs. I don't like the name calling at pro-2a people any more than the next guy, but you have to beat them where it counts and that's in the legislator. You damage our cause with every dumb comment made, and I have no idea why this type of crap is spewed especially prominently in the Arizona forum.

But continue to segregate your followers, as if republican = pro gun and democrat = anti gun.

Click to expand...

If one examines the party's platform; democrats ARE anti-gun. Just because there are a few who say you aren't, yet still vote for all the politicians who want to strip them away... uh... yeah. I think you wish we were simple-minded enough not to notice that.

But you have a valid point on Republicans not always being pro-gun. Bush was an anti. All imperialists are....

Click to expand...

Because every single democrat is entirely 100% democrat, right?

I vote based on a huge range of subjects, not JUST blindly gun control. I am looking to preserve ALL of my rights, not just the second.

And only a fool votes by party.

Click to expand...

Did I say that? No.

I think most democraps are far less extreme than the psychotic extremists they elect. Yet they still place that vote for the moonbatshitcrazy... So what do I call it? A moderate that votes far left? The vote is what names it.....

As stupid as left/right is, it still exists.

As for single-issue voting... Most of the 'issues' are about social programs that I feel should not exist. A variety of meddling that the gov should just plain not be involved in. The only real issue at hand, that I feel needs to be addressed, is the 2a. I'm not advocating a certain choice in how or why you vote, but the 2a is what guarantees all of the others.

It would be ignorant to call me a one-issue voter. I just haven't found any other issues that are more important.

imported post

ixtow wrote:

LuvmyXD9 wrote:

ixtow wrote:

LuvmyXD9 wrote:

ixtow wrote:

Good call.

DemocRats have been known to do just such a thing. But, I believe their cowardly nature would prevent them from going this far. However, I will also contradict myself and say that there are a great number of extreme zealots in their ranks, and I would not put it past them to buy a gun, pose as 'one of us' and do something much worse than 'negligently discharge.' They can't find an example to back up their claims, so they'll take it upon themselves to create it.

Vigilance.

Click to expand...

Okay I've read about enough of this crap already, I cannot believe the type of simple minded garbage coming out of the mouths of fellow gun rights activists.

Regardless of what the extreme side of the anti-gun has spewed at us (redneck, hillbilly, racists, whatever they want to paint the average 2A person), it only makes you look simple minded to respond with the same type of garbage.

I am a democrat, and hold many of their values in high esteem. I have NEVER been against guns in any shape or form. I know a few democrats that are pro-gun. I know a few republicans that are so anti-gun it's ridiculous.

I also believe this type of attitude is exactly the wrong type of attention the pro-2a crowd needs. I don't like the name calling at pro-2a people any more than the next guy, but you have to beat them where it counts and that's in the legislator. You damage our cause with every dumb comment made, and I have no idea why this type of crap is spewed especially prominently in the Arizona forum.

But continue to segregate your followers, as if republican = pro gun and democrat = anti gun.

Click to expand...

If one examines the party's platform; democrats ARE anti-gun. Just because there are a few who say you aren't, yet still vote for all the politicians who want to strip them away... uh... yeah. I think you wish we were simple-minded enough not to notice that.

But you have a valid point on Republicans not always being pro-gun. Bush was an anti. All imperialists are....

Click to expand...

Because every single democrat is entirely 100% democrat, right?

I vote based on a huge range of subjects, not JUST blindly gun control. I am looking to preserve ALL of my rights, not just the second.

And only a fool votes by party.

Click to expand...

Did I say that? No.

I think most democraps are far less extreme than the psychotic extremists they elect. Yet they still place that vote for the moonbat@#$%crazy... So what do I call it? A moderate that votes far left? The vote is what names it.....

As stupid as left/right is, it still exists.

As for single-issue voting... Most of the 'issues' are about social programs that I feel should not exist. A variety of meddling that the gov should just plain not be involved in. The only real issue at hand, that I feel needs to be addressed, is the 2a. I'm not advocating a certain choice in how or why you vote, but the 2a is what guarantees all of the others.

It would be ignorant to call me a one-issue voter. I just haven't found any other issues that are more important.

Click to expand...

I'm not even going to get into a political debate of how blatantly ignorant that comment was.

Let's see, I am not a republican because:

I don't believe in fairy tales (god)
I don't believe in removing population control (I believe in abortion rights)
I don't believe in deregulating industries (hellllllllllo there mortgage industry and tax loopholes)
I do not believe in foreign aggression unless necessary
Then there's little stuff, I believe torture is retarded, the spending rate on our military and social programs are ridiculous (OH SNAP GOING AGAINST DEM VIEWS) and obviously since I'm on this board I'm rather 2A pro.

imported post

LuvmyXD9 wrote:

ixtow wrote:

LuvmyXD9 wrote:

ixtow wrote:

LuvmyXD9 wrote:

ixtow wrote:

Good call.

DemocRats have been known to do just such a thing. But, I believe their cowardly nature would prevent them from going this far. However, I will also contradict myself and say that there are a great number of extreme zealots in their ranks, and I would not put it past them to buy a gun, pose as 'one of us' and do something much worse than 'negligently discharge.' They can't find an example to back up their claims, so they'll take it upon themselves to create it.

Vigilance.

Click to expand...

Okay I've read about enough of this crap already, I cannot believe the type of simple minded garbage coming out of the mouths of fellow gun rights activists.

Regardless of what the extreme side of the anti-gun has spewed at us (redneck, hillbilly, racists, whatever they want to paint the average 2A person), it only makes you look simple minded to respond with the same type of garbage.

I am a democrat, and hold many of their values in high esteem. I have NEVER been against guns in any shape or form. I know a few democrats that are pro-gun. I know a few republicans that are so anti-gun it's ridiculous.

I also believe this type of attitude is exactly the wrong type of attention the pro-2a crowd needs. I don't like the name calling at pro-2a people any more than the next guy, but you have to beat them where it counts and that's in the legislator. You damage our cause with every dumb comment made, and I have no idea why this type of crap is spewed especially prominently in the Arizona forum.

But continue to segregate your followers, as if republican = pro gun and democrat = anti gun.

Click to expand...

If one examines the party's platform; democrats ARE anti-gun. Just because there are a few who say you aren't, yet still vote for all the politicians who want to strip them away... uh... yeah. I think you wish we were simple-minded enough not to notice that.

But you have a valid point on Republicans not always being pro-gun. Bush was an anti. All imperialists are....

Click to expand...

Because every single democrat is entirely 100% democrat, right?

I vote based on a huge range of subjects, not JUST blindly gun control. I am looking to preserve ALL of my rights, not just the second.

And only a fool votes by party.

Click to expand...

Did I say that? No.

I think most democraps are far less extreme than the psychotic extremists they elect. Yet they still place that vote for the moonbat@#$%crazy... So what do I call it? A moderate that votes far left? The vote is what names it.....

As stupid as left/right is, it still exists.

As for single-issue voting... Most of the 'issues' are about social programs that I feel should not exist. A variety of meddling that the gov should just plain not be involved in. The only real issue at hand, that I feel needs to be addressed, is the 2a. I'm not advocating a certain choice in how or why you vote, but the 2a is what guarantees all of the others.

It would be ignorant to call me a one-issue voter. I just haven't found any other issues that are more important.

Click to expand...

I'm not even going to get into a political debate of how blatantly ignorant that comment was.

Let's see, I am not a republican because:

I don't believe in fairy tales (god)
I don't believe in removing population control (I believe in abortion rights)
I don't believe in deregulating industries (hellllllllllo there mortgage industry and tax loopholes)
I do not believe in foreign aggression unless necessary
Then there's little stuff, I believe torture is retarded, the spending rate on our military and social programs are ridiculous (OH SNAP GOING AGAINST DEM VIEWS) and obviously since I'm on this board I'm rather 2A pro.

Click to expand...

Yup, you're a democrat alright. I'm just an ignorant tobacco chewing redneck. I have a big truck and I'm fat and my butt crack hangs out. I swill pabst blue ribon 24x7 and I can't tell my uncles from my nieces. Oh, also, I can't read, yet own 72 Bibles. I have Jesus tattooed on my forehead. I'll kill you if you kill your baby, and I live in a paid-off single-wide trailer.

That about cover it? Did I miss anything?

Whatever.

imported post

LuvmyXD9 wrote:

Let's see, I am not a republican because:

I don't believe in fairy tales (god)
I don't believe in removing population control (I believe in abortion rights)
I don't believe in deregulating industries (hellllllllllo there mortgage industry and tax loopholes)
I do not believe in foreign aggression unless necessary
Then there's little stuff, I believe torture is retarded, the spending rate on our military and social programs are ridiculous (OH SNAP GOING AGAINST DEM VIEWS) and obviously since I'm on this board I'm rather 2A pro.

Click to expand...

Just one question: why, pray tell, do you think "population control" is a good thing?