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Denied a carry permit in Oakland county

WARCHILD

WARCHILD

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Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,768
Location
Corunna, Michigan, USA
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I just noticed this thread. I researched this for my son last year. True you can have...ONE...felony expunged. BUT...there are also some misdemeanor violations which default any expungement. i.e. traffic tickets, drunk driving, domestics...and more. Also according to the prosecuting attorney in Flint; The police in Mich. may not prosecute you if your felony was expunged, BUT...depending on the cop and attitudes involved, he can still arrest you for a felony violation of a felon in possesion of a firearm. Hence it doesn't matter what the state says, ultimately it will be a federal charge and prosecution. As the others have said..best thing to do is get a lawyer and get rid of the gun. To avoid the...SALE... of the gun...gift it to someone you trust.
 
smellslikemichigan

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
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PLEASE DON'T ASK THE POLICE WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT YOU COMMITTING A CRIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:banghead:

ASK A LAWYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
J

Jr-from-MI

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Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
31
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Bloomfield twp, Michigan, USA
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I wasnt gonna tell them the whole story lmao ! I was just gonna ask them about the restoration of gun rights and getting a gun permit in Oakland county with convictions on your record.
 
C

cobra

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Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
43
Location
, Michigan, USA
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smellslikemichigan wrote:
PLEASE DON'T ASK THE POLICE WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT YOU COMMITTING A CRIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:banghead:

ASK A LAWYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Good advice, and I would go one step further and obtain legal opinion from multiple attorneys
 
M

mikestilly

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Jul 6, 2009
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Location
Macomb County, Michigan, USA
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I'm not a lawyer but I can give you some sound advice on this. First sell the gun immediately. The fact that you do not qualify to possess a pistol and they occidentally issued you a permit to purchase means that the police department now knows that you are in possession of a pistol and they obviously have a fresh copy of your current record with it. It doesn't matter if you didn't know it is your responsibility to be compliant to the law regardless if they made a mistake or not. Just possession of that pistol itself you could be facing felony charges and a prison term of 5 years along with potential fines of up to $5,000.

After you get rid of the pistol lawfully then retain the services of a lawyer. It will be very difficult for you to do any of this on your own.

Honestly I dont know if they can demand the pistol from you now that they have proof you own one. Once again talk to a lawyer. Don't mess around because if you get a new charge you will have zero chance of improving the situation.
 
J

Jr-from-MI

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Nov 2, 2008
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Location
Bloomfield twp, Michigan, USA
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I talked to a couple lawyers and they couldnt give me a clear answer about my situation. Know any good lawyers that know what is what ? The lawyer I talked to said thay may have made a mistake not that they did by giving me a permit to buy the gun. The police officer that did the background check knew it was on my record becouse she told me. I didnt no it was on my adult record till I tried to get a carry permit. I am 30 years old and my conviction was when i was 15 years old and it was my first conviction my first time being in trouble so i didnt think it would be on my adult record since i was a juvenile at the time. Thank you for your advice
 
R

rj3663

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
186
Location
Fowlerville, Michigan, USA
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I have probably the most "colorful' history imbedded in my criminal record of any person ever issued a CCW permit. I've jumped through plenty of hoops and still, up until the moment my CCW permit landed in my hot little hands, I had to present my laminated copy of a felony reduction on a charge I aquired way back when. Prior to that each time I purchased a pistol they had to run a background check on me and the Deputies had quite a bit of fun at my expense reading my rap sheet as it fed out of the printer. Total length was a bit over thirty five feet and a friend of mine that happened to be a probation agent used a copy as a visual aid during some of his office exchanges.

Get rid of the gun/guns!!! Get an attorney and get your rights restored. If they made a mistake giving you a permit to purchase just think what "mistakes" they could make when they bash in your door to retrieve it. Keep in touch with us.
 
S

Springfield Smitty

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May 22, 2009
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OKC, OK (Heading back to MI very soon - thank good
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[align=left]28.433 Unlawful possession of weapon; complaint, search warrant, seizure.[/align]
[align=left]Sec. 13. When complaint shall be made on oath to any magistrate authorized to issue warrants in criminal cases that any pistol or other weapon or device mentioned in this act is unlawfully possessed or carried by any person, such magistrate shall, if he be satisfied that there is reasonable cause to believe the matters in said complaint be true, issue his warrant directed to any peace officer, commanding him to search the person or place described in such complaint, and if such pistol, weapon or device be there found, to seize and hold the same as evidence of a violation of this act.[/align]
[align=left]History: 1927, Act 372, Eff. Sept. 5, 1927;—CL 1929, 16762;—CL 1948, 28.433.[/align]
[align=left]Popular name: CCW[/align]
[align=left]Popular name: Concealed Weapons[/align]
[align=left]Popular name: Right to Carry[/align]
[align=left]Popular name: Shall Issue[/align]
[align=left]28.434 Unlawful possession; weapon forfeited to state; disposal; immunity.[/align]
[align=left]Sec. 14. (1) Subject to section 5g, all pistols, weapons, or devices carried or possessed contrary to this act are declared forfeited to the state, and shall be turned over to the director of the department of state police or his or her designated representative, for disposal under this section.[/align]
[align=left](2) The director of the department of state police shall dispose of firearms under this section by 1 of the following methods:[/align]
[align=left](a) By conducting a public auction in which firearms received under this section may be purchased at a sale conducted in[/align]
[align=left]compliance with section 4708 of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.4708, by individuals authorized by law to possess those firearms.[/align]
[align=left](b) By destroying them.[/align]
[align=left](c) By any other lawful manner prescribed by the director of the department of state police.[/align]
[align=left](3) Before disposing of a firearm under this section, the director of the department of state police shall do both of the following:[/align]
[align=left](a) Determine through the law enforcement information network whether the firearm has been reported lost or stolen. If the firearm has been reported lost or stolen and the name and address of the owner can be determined, the director of the department of state police shall provide 30 days’ written notice of his or her intent to dispose of the firearm under this section to the owner, and allow the owner to claim the firearm within that 30-day period if he or she is authorized to possess the firearm.[/align]
[align=left](b) Provide 30 days’ notice to the public on the department of state police website of his or her intent to dispose of the firearm under this section. The notice shall include a description of the firearm and shall state the firearm’s serial number, if the serial number can be determined. The department of state police shall allow the owner of the firearm to claim the firearm within that 30-day period if he or she is authorized to possess the firearm. The 30-day period required under this subdivision is in addition to the 30-day period required under subdivision (a).[/align]
[align=left](4) The department of state police is immune from civil liability for disposing of a firearm in compliance with this section.[/align]
[align=left]History: 1927, Act 372, Eff. Sept. 5, 1927;—CL 1929, 16763;—Am. 1943, Act 113, Eff. July 30, 1943;—CL 1948, 28.434;—Am. 2000, Act 381, Eff. July 1, 2001.[/align]
[align=left]Popular name: CCW[/align]
[align=left]Popular name: Concealed Weapons[/align]
[align=left]Popular name: Right to Carry[/align]
Popular name: Shall Issue

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf
 
W

wardog6d

Banned
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
306
Location
Romulus/Wayne County, Michigan, USA
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I agree with other posters. You need to get rid of that firearm asap. If you get caught with it you will never have to worry about this situation again. Then as others have stated find a GREAT Attorney to not only fix the issue but that might also consider a lawsuit for making a mistake in which you could have committed another felony do to there mistake.
 
P

Perplexed

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Sep 1, 2009
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Down River Community - Wayne County, Michigan, USA
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I just recently went thru something similar.

I have several unspecified felony's (NSF Over 500, Larceny By Conversion over 100.00 and Lareceny in a building) from 15 years ago and wanted to find out if I could legally own a firearm again. None of them violent and none of them included any force. I bounced a check, had posession of a piece of equipment from work and forgot I had it, then when the boss filed a Police report declaring it stolen I made matters worse, I panicked and sold it! WAY STUPID!!!!

So about 2 years ago I spoke with an Attorney who is also a Gun Advocate and he explained to me that my convictions where UNSPECIFIED or Non-Specified so my Rights should have been automatically restored. He suggested I go to my local PD and tell them about my convictions and apply for a Pistol Purchase Permit. If they issue one then I am in the clear! If not then I would know.

I did exactly that and they issued a permit to me after my embarrassing admission of my Felony's. So I did not use the permit and turned it in unused (after making a photocopy).

So fast forward over a year later, I went in again to my local PD and applied for the pistol purchase permit to transfer 2 handguns that I inherited from my now deceased father. I disclosed the arrests and convictions on the applications, they issued 2 permits and I completed the forms and turned them in to the PD.

So by now my confidence was returning and I was looking forward to teaching my kids about firearms as well as getting back into hunting and competitive shooting (I am Ex-Military and shot competitively for the branch of service I was in.)

So recently I decided on purchasing a new handgun. I put my deposit on the weapon and then went to my local PD again to apply for a Pistol Purchase permit. Again disclosed the arrest and conviction on the application. A short while later a Police Lieutenant comes out and tells me that there is a problem. He tells me that they should NOT have issued the permits previously and that they would have to come home with me to take possession of all firearms in my home.

I had my deceased fathers collection in a Gun Safe in my basement and had to turn about a dozen long guns over as well as a bunch of hand guns.

So now I am worried about repercussions - even though the police Officers where very nice and said I was not in trouble because it was their error. They even allowed my brother to come and retrieve all the long guns from the PD lock-up and he is in the process of getting the Purchase Permits to transfer ownership of all the hand guns to him.

So don't keep yours in your possession!!!! You are on someones radar and the next knock on the door could be to serve a search warrant.

So now I need to find an attorney who can really help me navigate all the laws and such to see if I can get my Civil Rights Restored and also my Firearm Rights. The information available on the NET is confusing and contradictory to say the least!

Can I get my Rights restored? Some say Yes and some say NO. But what is the truth?

Can I really apply thru the County Gun Board to have them restored?

I am desperate to try and find ther truth myself.

It is not easy finding someone who can help and provide the TRUTH.

Can anyone recommend an Expert Attorny in this subject area who can help?
 
G

ghostrider

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
1,416
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
imported post

Perplexed wrote:
...

So recently I decided on purchasing a new handgun. I put my deposit on the weapon and then went to my local PD again to apply for a Pistol Purchase permit. Again disclosed the arrest and conviction on the application. A short while later a Police Lieutenant comes out and tells me that there is a problem. He tells me that they should NOT have issued the permits previously and that they would have to come home with me to take possession of all firearms in my home.

...
Click to expand...
This sounds extremely suspicious.

Based on how I'm reading what you wrote, it sounds like you voluntarily turned over your guns because you were intimidated by an officer into doing so. Was there a warrant, or court order, or some sort of legal documentation given to you that mandates you turn them over (I would think it would have been something with a judge's signature on it)? It sounds like it was just some cop told you that they must be turned over, and you did just that.

Did you speak to your lawyer about this? Sounds like you need to. Just because a cop tells you they need to come into your home and seize weapons, doesn't mean you must let them. They need either a warrant or a court order. Without a warrant or court order mandating that you turn them over, it was a voluntary act on your part, and was probably just that officer acting on his own. If that's the case, then it means there was probably no obligation on your part to turn them over. It also sounds like he was just implementing his own version of gun control in violation of state law. You talked to a lawyer who told you that you can own them, you should talk to that lawyer again.

BTW:
There are going to be some people who will tell you to enter your location in your profile. I understand that you may not want to list your location, but you can put something there so that you can at least list Michigan as your state residence (we request this so that it gives us a better indication of how many members our state has).
 
M

mikestilly

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
1,869
Location
Macomb County, Michigan, USA
imported post

Perplexed wrote:
I just recently went thru something similar.

I have several unspecified felony's (NSF Over 500, Larceny By Conversion over 100.00 and Lareceny in a building) from 15 years ago and wanted to find out if I could legally own a firearm again. None of them violent and none of them included any force. I bounced a check, had posession of a piece of equipment from work and forgot I had it, then when the boss filed a Police report declaring it stolen I made matters worse,  I panicked and sold it! WAY STUPID!!!!

So about 2 years ago I spoke with an Attorney who is also a Gun Advocate and he explained to me that my convictions where UNSPECIFIED or Non-Specified so my Rights should have been automatically restored. He suggested I go to my local PD and tell them about my convictions and apply for a Pistol Purchase Permit. If they issue one then I am in the clear! If not then I would know.

I did exactly that and they issued a permit to me after my embarrassing admission of my Felony's. So I did not use the permit and turned it in unused (after making a photocopy).

So fast forward over a year later, I went in again to my local PD and applied for the pistol purchase permit to transfer 2 handguns that I inherited from my now deceased father. I disclosed the arrests and convictions on the applications, they issued 2 permits and I completed the forms and turned them in to the PD.

So by now my confidence was returning and I was looking forward to teaching my kids about firearms as well as getting back into hunting and competitive shooting (I am Ex-Military and shot competitively for the branch of service I was in.)

So recently I decided on purchasing a new handgun. I put my deposit on the weapon and then went to my local PD again to apply for a Pistol Purchase permit. Again disclosed the arrest and conviction on the application. A short while later a Police Lieutenant comes out and tells me that there is a problem.  He tells me that they should NOT have issued the permits previously and that they would have to come home with me to take possession of all firearms in my home.

I had my deceased fathers collection in a Gun Safe in my basement and had to turn about a dozen long guns over as well as a bunch of hand guns.

So now I am worried about repercussions - even though the police Officers where very nice and said I was not in trouble because it was their error. They even allowed my brother to come and retrieve all the long guns from the PD lock-up and he is in the process of getting the Purchase Permits to transfer ownership of all the hand guns to him.

So don't keep yours in your possession!!!! You are on someones radar and the next knock on the door could be to serve a search warrant.

So now I need to find an attorney who can really help me navigate all the laws and such to see if I can get my Civil Rights Restored and also my Firearm Rights. The information available on the NET is confusing and contradictory to say the least!

Can I get my Rights restored? Some say Yes and some say NO. But what is the truth?

Can I really apply thru the County Gun Board to have them restored?

I am desperate to try and find ther truth myself.

It is not easy finding someone who can help and provide the TRUTH.

Can anyone recommend an Expert Attorny in this subject area who can help?
Click to expand...

What they told you to do sounds very fishy. Check your messages I'm sending you a great lawyers info.
 
P

Perplexed

New member
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
4
Location
Down River Community - Wayne County, Michigan, USA
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I agree about it being fishy! They said that it was the fault of the department and asked me if I wanted to file a complaint against the LT that runs the Permits. They then told me that they either needed to collect them or they would hold me until a search warrant could be obtained then they would go in and get them.

I am trying to find an attorney to help me. I just don't need to get myself in any more hot water.

They did let my brother get them and he is now in possession of them. So I don't know what to think or do. But I will follow up with any Attorney that I can find who can help. I have a couple leads of Attorney's who are also Gun Advocates so hopefully one of them will call me back.

Thanks for the PM. I will use the info and make contact!

I really thought that all this crud from my past was behind me!!!
 
G

ghostrider

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
1,416
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
imported post

Perplexed wrote:
I agree about it being fishy! They said that it was the fault of the department and asked me if I wanted to file a complaint against the LT that runs the Permits. They then told me that they either needed to collect them or they would hold me until a search warrant could be obtained then they would go in and get them.

I am trying to find an attorney to help me. I just don't need to get myself in any more hot water.

They did let my brother get them and he is now in possession of them. So I don't know what to think or do. But I will follow up with any Attorney that I can find who can help. I have a couple leads of Attorney's who are also Gun Advocates so hopefully one of them will call me back.

Thanks for the PM. I will use the info and make contact!

I really thought that all this crud from my past was behind me!!!
Click to expand...
It's quite possible it is behind you. Some PD's (as well as individual officer's) have a problem with private citizens owning guns. They'll try anything to stop us from having them.

They still could have been running a scam on you. It is possible that they wouldn't have been able to get a warrant. This is really something you need to talk to a very knowledgeable lawyer about.
 
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