MEDFORD AREA ANTI GUN BUSINESS

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MEDFORD

Well, my wife andI went out after she got off work today. I was OCing, she was CCing.

First stop, Rogue Valley Mall. Got out of the car and walked to the door. As I was reaching for it it was opened from the insideby a uniformed security guard who stepped outside and informed me that I couldn't carry inside. I asked him if it was the mall's policy and he said it was their policy and that he understood that it was perfectly legal to carry openly but that was the mall's policy.

I had a polite converstation with him and he seemed to be pro gun himself but just doing his job. I asked him if he would let his bosses know that they'd be losing business as there was a growing open carry movement in the country and that the mall would be listed in several locations as being unfriendly to those who carry. He actually asked if I had a website address so I told him this one. Guess when that mapping program is working I'll have to do up a card "no guns = no money" and put that URL on it.

While I was talking with him the roving vehicle guard pulled up behind in his unit and was observing. But he didn't interfere or seem threatening either. The entire encounter was polite, but the policy sucks. Oh well.

So I'm going to see about sending an e-mail or letter to the mall and ask them to verify/clarify their policy in writing so that I can relay it to all the others who carry in the area......hint hint it will cost them money.



Then, in WalMart, the one at the CostCo mall,while purchasing 400 rounds of .223 and talking with the guy behind the counter, he said that the managements policy was no open carry in WalMart. When I explained that WalMarts corporate policy was that firearms carried in compliance with state law were acceptable per Corporate policy he said he was just telling me what his managements policy was. He didn't indicate he agreed with it but that it was "above his paygrade" and was the policy. He also didn't tell me I had to leave.

So I guess a letter to that WalMart asking for clarification is due as well.



Also, at the Joseph Stewart day use area boat ranch (Lost Creek lake) there is a firearms prohibited sign up. Yet another letter though that one will be explaining state premption and to please rectify the signage.

Sheeeesh

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Here's the letter I've drafted to send to the local store. Trying to be nice, communicate my knowledge of the law, and not get the particular employee (it was like he was saying, be careful rather than "oh my god you can't do that") into any hot water.

POSTED HERE FIRST FOR ANY INPUT, SUGGESTIONS, ETC. IT HAS NOT BEEN SENT YET





To General Manager, WalMart, Medford,



First, I believe that I am sending this to the correct store, the one on highway 62 in Medford, next to Lowe’s. If not, any assistance in directing me to the correct e-mail would be appreciated.



On the evening of Thursday, August 20[suP]th[/suP], I was in your store making a purchase when the employee ringing up my purchase mentioned that it is the management’s policy to prohibit openly carried firearms in the store. He was quite polite and his statement was made in the manner of simply communicating management’s policy. I was openly carrying a securely holstered pistol at the time.



I have shopped in your store for years while legally carrying and have never had anyone say anything about such a management policy. In fact, I am aware that WalMart corporate policy is to mirror state law in whatever state a store is located. i.e. if it is legal within that state, that is an acceptable practice in WalMart. As openly carrying a holstered weapon is legal within the state of Oregon, I assume that the employee must have been mistaken about store policy.



I would appreciate any guidance you could offer regarding this matter so that I can determine if I need to find another source for my shopping.



Thank you,

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And this is my letter for the State Parks Department for their sign at Joseph Stewart St Park.

AGAIN, POSTED HERE FIRST FOR VETTING, NOT YET SENT





Dear Sir or Ma’m,



On Monday, the 17[suP]th[/suP] of August, my wife and I were at the Joseph Stewart state park boat launch for a day of fishing. While preparing to launch our boat I noticed the “signage board” and read it. I was surprised to read an official sign that stated firearms were prohibited. This sign appeared to be a standard one for state parks which was even more surprising.



I would like to direct you to section 166.170 of the Oregon Revised Statutes in which the Legislature preempts all subordinate entities of government from regulating possession, among other things, of firearms in the state unless state statute expressly authorizes such regulation. No state statute authorizes any regulation, beyond state statute, of firearms in state parks.



I would appreciate a written reply to this letter detailing the actions that the Department of Parks and Recreation will take to rectify this incorrect sign as well as the many other signs printed when it was that are surely littering our state parks.



Thank you,



Bruce

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Drop the bit:

First, I believe that I am sending this to the correct store, the one on highway 62 in Medford, next to Lowe’s. If not, any assistance in directing me to the correct e-mail would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

It weakens your position and detracts from the point you are trying to make. They should route your complaint to the appropriate person.

Get the exact street address of the Walmart-in-Question (WiQ) and place that below the To: General Manager line. This will ensure they know precisely which store you are referring to, without using the above paragraph.

Otherwise, I'd say it's pretty good.

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Your State Parks email looks GtG as-is.

~Auto

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Here's a picture of the improper sign at the Joseph Stewart state park boat launch.

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And here's a close up of the part about the firearms prohibition.

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They have that sign around a few areas in OR, up along the coast as well. Forget exactly where, but I'm pretty certain I paid no heed to it

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DenWin wrote:

They have that sign around a few areas in OR, up along the coast as well. Forget exactly where, but I'm pretty certain I paid no heed to it

Click to expand...

I know I paid no heed to it as I took the pic with my openly carried 9mm on my side then casually launched my boat.

I sent an e-mail to the director of the parks and recreation department but haven't gotten a reply yet.

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I got a gun friendly reply on the State Park sign, still no word from Wally World about their employees comment about the manager saying no guns.

Here's the states reply.



Hi, Bruce, I'm replying on Tim Wood's behalf.

I apologize for the language on that sign. It's out of date, and most likely 10+ years old, as we rescinded the firearms rule several years ago. Unfortunately, it does take some time for the old signs to be cycled out of service.

Legally-carried firearms are permitted in state parks. Period. That's the way our rules read, and that's how our rangers enforce it. Our regional managers are checking now to see which parks still have the old signs (the new ones have the current rule language), and will figure out how to either get them replaced faster or cover up the out-of-date language. When I get more details back from the field managers on a schedule for taking those old signs out of service, I will send you another note.

Let me know if you need anything else in the meantime.

Thanks.


--
Chris Havel
Associate Director
Oregon Parks and Recreation Dept.

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Nice

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I see that sign at every state park I go to. Their not kidding about taking a while to get them changed out. I would at least be satisfied with a little strip of white tape.

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Yeah, I really liked that the very first response was sorry, the sign is wrong, we're working on it but it takes time. So much nicer than a lot of the replies I've seen in other threads where they hem and haw and 'check into it" and never want to admit they're wrong.

Kudo's to the State Park reply.

NOW, is the REALITY ON THE GROUND the same in all the State Parks? Let's say someone up North is confronted by an lEO and pointed towards the sign as "proof". With all the other problems near Portland with all the ordinances, I'm wondering if LE up there is as informed as the Parks representative says their rangers are?

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Wow, nice to see another guy from the Rogue Valley! Outside of my own circle of friends, I've only ever seen 1 other person OC in Medford, and he lives right across from me (I live in South Medford over by Fichtner Mainwerring park about 2 blocks from Jefferson Elementary).

Anyway, I'm actually in the military right now so I haven't been around Medford much the last year and a half and I only check this site periodically, but I should have posted something about the Rogue Valley Mall. I ran into some trouble there last Thanksgiving when I was home on pass. I'd carried there before, but not since about 6 months earlier before I'd left for the Army. I was shopping around for a cell phone at the service providers across from the food court. I was talking to a sales rep in the Verizon store (pretty sure it was them, but I ended up going with AT&T), and he kept glancingly awkwardly at my holster while he spoke to me but other than that he was calm and polite. Finally he asked me about my gun and I explained to him that open carry was legal. He didn't seem to mind after that. He went into the back to grab a phone for me to look at and when he came out he told me that he'd heard over the radio that the security guards were "looking for me." I guess someone had told them there was a "man with a gun."

I saw a security guard not far outside the door looking over the railing down below. It was an older guy, overweight and with a large gray mustache. I approached him and said, "Excuse me sir." He turned around and seeing that I was the guy he was looking for acted like I was a threat. He didn't reach for a taser or club or anything (I don't even think they have those) but he was pretty hostile at first. He told me, "You're not aloud to have that here," so of course I explained to him the laws and citing chapter 166 section 250 of the Oregon statutes and telling him that I hadn't seen signs asking people not to carry guns anywhere, as I make a habit of checking doorways for "no gun" signs before I go in anywhere. He told me it was there policy, and I told him that, if it was, it should be posted somewhere. He'd calmed down and was pretty civil by this point, and he told me that it was posted, so I asked him if he could show it to me. Sure enough, it is posted - inside the building. There is a small plaque no bigger than a regular piece of paper posted on the inside wall by the food court entrance. If you were coming in, it'd be on your right hand side, right next to the Starbucks. It has an entire list of mall policies on it, and one of them does indeed ask people not to carry weapons (weapons period, not just firearms). I apologized and told him that I'd return my gun to my car. I also told him that I wouldn't be coming there anymore after I'd purchased my cell phone and that he should tell whoever manages the building that they might want to consider putting up some more obvious "no firearms" signs at the entrances.

The mall is actually one of the only businesses I've seen in Medford that has this policy, the other ones I can think of off the top of my head being Tinseltown and the White City theater. I also ran into difficulties once at Sportsman's Warehouse, but I think they misunderstood what I was doing because I've carried there countless times with no difficulties and if ANYWHERE should be pro-gun, it's that place. See, I was looking around the gun section in the back and I started talking with one of the guys behind the counter. He told me I'd need to have check my gun and leave it at the front desk. I told him there was no sign saying that and I was unaware of this policy. Later when I was thinking about it I figured he probably thought I wanted them to look at my gun or something, and to prevent people brandishins guns have them checked at the front desk so an employee and bring it back to the gun counter. That, or he was just making stuff up, because no one else has EVER given me problems there.

You know of any other businesses in the area that should be avoided? It'd be good to know before I go home on leave in about a month here. For the most part Medford, Central Point, and White City have always seemed pretty gun-friendly to me. I'd really like to try carrying in Ashland sometime and see how that turns out :lol:.

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Actually, I live here now but my wife and I are "political refugees" for Taxifornia. We live out in Sams Valley, both have CHL's and both carry daily. My wife isn't ready for OC yet so she's my "backup" and says she'll come bail me out. Hopefully she never needs to do that but one never knows.

My condolences on your having picked the Army. Being a Marine I can say that. SMILE. Just remember, your mission is not to sacrifice for your country but to make the ENEMY sacrifice for his. Thank you for your service.

The thing I found amazing at the mall was that security met me before I even got my hand on the door handle!!! I expected to get "trespassed", hoped I wouldn't, but was amazed that it happened that fast. I was prepared however as I had my recorder on as I left the car. I now have some simple "No guns = No Money" cards explaining the growing open carry movement and that their business will now be "reported" on several internet sites where pro-carry people from the area will learn to avoid their business.

Your description of the location of the sign there explains why I've never seen it. That's the door I use to enter most often and not being a fan of Starbucks I wouldn't give that area more than a cursory situational awareness glance.

Sportsmans has a sign that isn't worded properly to convey their actual policy. Per their management, just last week, open carry is allowed. If you're going to be taking your firearm out of it's holster to fit a holster or for some other reason, then they want it checked. Not all of their employees understand this and over the weekend one that I've dealt with on numerous occasions (while CCing) mentioned to my wife, while I was away from the counter, "I don't think he's supposed to OC here". And this was at the firearms counter where you would think they would all know exactly what the full policy is. But he said nothing to me and neither did my wife. I explained to her that in the future she should immediately, without making a scene of course, notify me so that I can address the issue properly. To his credit, he said he didn't "think" I could and did it discretely so I'm guessing he wasn't sure and wanted to err on the side of caution. I just wish he'd mentioned it to me.

Anyone who has any issue at the Medford Sportsmans should ask them to get ahold of Rick Dowling. He's a manager that works the firearms counter.

I'm open carrying whenever I venture into town now so any other businesses I run across I'll be reporting here. I'm not positive but I seem to recall Good Guys Guns by the Winco on Barnett having a policy of no loaded firearms but I'm working off memory on that one and can't say for sure.

U.S. Bank in Central Point was fired by me as the policy they stated to me, when making a 20,000 CASH withdrawl was that it was illegal to carry in their bank, even concealled. The issue came up when I asked about security for the withdrawl I'd be making a few days later and they told me we'd just count it out at the counter. YIKES I was hoping for a back room as that's a LOT of 100 dollar bills and who knows who's going to see them all getting counted out and going into your pocket. I explained that it was in fact legal and that I'd be taking my business to a bank that was more concerned with my personal safety.

UMPQUA bank is that bank though I didn't address open carry with them. They had to contact corporate security to find out their policy but they got back to me the next morning with a "CC is fine with us" reply.

Good luck with your service in the Army. My step son is in Bulgaria right now on a temp assignment from Germany where his wife (mil intel Sgt) is holding down the house.

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We the People....Great write up on the Lost Lake sign! I use to live in Medford before I moved up to Wilsonville. I remember that sign when I would go to Lost Lake, had my J frame ccw when I was there. Nice to see that you got a response from them after you wrote your letter.

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Thanks,

I'm still waiting on a reply from WalMart in Medford. I guess I'm going to have to go down there in person and ask for the manager......I'll CC just to make sure if the management is anti that I can keep a discussion to the point of their policy rather than turning to the fact that I'm carrying at the moment.

It's a politics thing. Yes it would be legal, until/unless they asked me to leave, but to get the most out of such a meeting it's better to approach them while not shoving it in their face.

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Rogue Federal Credit Union on the southside of town by Fred Meyer's is awesome. I've open carried in there many times and they haven't so much as batted an eye. I think that was actually the first place I ever open carried. All that resulted was a conversation with the teller about 1911s and guns in general, which was pretty awesome. They're definitely keeping my business.

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I noticed the no guns signs at the Rogue Valley mall for some time now. They really are to small and not very apparent.

Also, I know for a fact Tinseltown's no gun policy is handed down by their corporate office (IE Cinemark). I would say an email to the corporate office might be the best bet to get the policy changed.

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I just remembered, I actually had a negative open carry experience at Food 4 Less as well. I've carried there... I don't know, probably a dozen times, but one time (this would have been sometime in late December when I was home on 2 weeks leave for Christmas, probably around New Years) me and a buddy where in there to pick up some snacks for a little get together we were having with some friends. It was maybe 9 or 10 PM. I was in the process of hunting for sunflower seeds when I was approached by a large, tubby, gray-headed man. He asked me why I was carrying a gun and if I was a cop, and when I told him I wasn't, he told me that "I couldn't do that." Apparently they'd gotten a "man with a gun" complaint from a customer and he said I was "scaring them." I explained to him that open carry was legal and that I hadn't seen any no-firearms signs anywhere on my way in. He told me I could carry I'd just have to cover it up. I explained to him that as I was only 19 (actually I guess at the time I was 18), I couldn't get a CHL and therefore could only legally carry openly. He told me something along the lines of "since it's private property and I say you can, you can," which I wasn't sure I bought for a number of reasons, not the least of which was that he was not the owner of the property, just the night security guy. Somewat against my better judgement I pulled my t-shirt over my 1911and quicklyfinished with my shopping. I was printing like no-other, and probably only the types of people who would be afraid of a guy open-carrying wouldn't realize I had a gun on my hip.

So that actually brings up a question - can you conceal carry on private property? I always assumed that you could carry on your own property or in your own home, but now after looking at the laws I'm somewhat confused, and here's why:

166.173 Authority of city or county to regulate possession of loaded firearms in public places. (1) A city or county may adopt ordinances to regulate, restrict or prohibit the possession of loaded firearms in public places as defined in ORS 161.015.

That seems to say that possession of loaded firearms can only be regulated in public places. At the same time, that seems to only say what cities and counties can do. It doesn't appear to limit the state, which is interesting because the state law about concealed cary reads:

166.250 Unlawful possession of firearms.[/b] (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section or ORS 166.260, 166.270, 166.274, 166.291, 166.292 or 166.410 to 166.470, a person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if the person knowingly:[/b]

(a) Carries any firearm concealed upon the person;

There wouldn't appear to be any "in public places" stipulation there. Does this mean you can't legally concealed carry in your house? I knew you couldn't in your car, but I figured you could in your own home...

Now, once someone has answered that question, here's another. If you CAN concealed carry on private property, would it be legal to, without a CHL, carry concealed if you have permission from the proprety owner? I'm thinking specifically of businesses here, as they wouldn't appear to fall under Oregon's definitoin of a "public place."

(10) “Public place” means a place to which the general public has access and includes, but is not limited to, hallways, lobbies and other parts of apartment houses and hotels not constituting rooms or apartments designed for actual residence, and highways, streets, schools, places of amusement, parks, playgrounds and premises used in connection with public passenger transportation. [1971 c.743 §3; 1973 c.139 §1; 1979 c.656 §3; 1991 c.67 §33; 1993 c.625 §4; 1995 c.651 §5]