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MEDFORD AREA ANTI GUN BUSINESS

We-the-People

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WOW that's a great question!!!!!

ORS 166.173 that you referenced is there to allow a city or county to create ordinances that regulate the carry of LOADED firearms PUBLIC PLACES as youstated but it does not apply to anyone with a CHL. That doesn't help you though since you don't have a CHL.

Your opinion on 166.250 seems to be accurate though and you can't conceal in your home without a CHL. This doesn't make sense but it does seem to be the law.

166.250 (1) (a) that you quoted, and no where else that I read, gives an exemption for in your home or on your private property and on your person. I think concealed in your home, but not on your person, would be legal.

This would be a good issue to bring up with our representatives for bills to introducein the next session. Just a little "adjustment" to the ORS that shouldn't (but probably would anyway) draw much opposition.
 

David West

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Good idea bringing it up with the representatives. That's a pretty weird gray area that should probably be adressed. At first i was thinking that it must just be about the same as having a gun in a vehicle without a permit - either plainly visible or not readily accessible. But then that wouldn't really make much sense as it would pretty much necessitate keeping your guns under lock and key 24/7 or else keeping them in the open. Afterall, behind the backseat or in the trunk is pretty clearly not readily acessible in vehicle, but in, say,a dresser drawer is just as accessible as anything else in your house. Hmm... I'm not gonna lie - I don't think I'll be changing any behavior over this one.

I'd like to see Oregon adopt policies similiar to Georgia's (I'm stationed at Ft. Benning) on the matter. In Georgia, anyone 18 andupis allowed to conceal a weapon in their home, vehicle, or place of business (And I'm pretty sure you don't even have to own or operate said business, you could just be an employee. I'd have to check on that one but I remember something saying that you don't actually even have to notify your boss unless they have a "no firearms" policy or something. I'd have to check on that one though.) That seems pretty reasonable to me.

Georgia actually also grants anyone with a military I.D. more carry rights than someone with a CHL, and not just in the line of duty, which is awesome for me. Definitely going to take advantage of that after I bring some of my guns back from leave.
 

We-the-People

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David West wrote:
Good idea bringing it up with the representatives. That's a pretty weird gray area that should probably be adressed. At first i was thinking that it must just be about the same as having a gun in a vehicle without a permit - either plainly visible or not readily accessible. But then that wouldn't really make much sense as it would pretty much necessitate keeping your guns under lock and key 24/7 or else keeping them in the open. Afterall, behind the backseat or in the trunk is pretty clearly not readily acessible in vehicle, but in, say,a dresser drawer is just as accessible as anything else in your house. Hmm... I'm not gonna lie - I don't think I'll be changing any behavior over this one.

I'd like to see Oregon adopt policies similiar to Georgia's (I'm stationed at Ft. Benning) on the matter. In Georgia, anyone 18 andupis allowed to conceal a weapon in their home, vehicle, or place of business (And I'm pretty sure you don't even have to own or operate said business, you could just be an employee. I'd have to check on that one but I remember something saying that you don't actually even have to notify your boss unless they have a "no firearms" policy or something. I'd have to check on that one though.) That seems pretty reasonable to me.

Georgia actually also grants anyone with a military I.D. more carry rights than someone with a CHL, and not just in the line of duty, which is awesome for me. Definitely going to take advantage of that after I bring some of my guns back from leave.


Okay, you are reading way too much into the law here in Oregon.

166.250 (1) (a) says you can't conceal upon your person

166.250 (1) (b) possess a handgun concealed and readilly accessible in a vehicle.

166.250 (2) (b) says QUOTE "Any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides in or is temporarily sojourning within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by ORS 166.270 and subsection (1) of this section, from owning, possessing or keeping within the person’s place of residence or place of business any handgun, and no permit or license to purchase, own, possess or keep any such firearm at the person’s place of residence or place of business is required of any such citizen. As used in this subsection, “residence” includes a recreational vessel or recreational vehicle while used, for whatever period of time, as residential quarters." END QUOTE

There are other restrictions for under 18, mentally ill, felons, etc. that are general prohibitions against gun ownership or possession but the relevant parts for the CONCEALED issue are above.

You are prohibited from concealing upon your person or in a car (if readily accessible) and you are specifically authorized to have a firearm in your home, RV, or place of buisiness. Because there is not prohibition for a concealed firearm other than on your person or in a car, you can have your handguns or long guns concealed in your home, RV, or business - BUT NOT CONCEALED ON YOUR PERSON IN THOSE LOCATIONS.

We do not need a specific authorization to do something in our legal system. The lack of a prohibition is sufficient to allow an activity.

Does that clear it up?

I AM NOT A LAWYER AND THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE but it's my personal opinion
and I'm pretty sure I'm correct.
 

We-the-People

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WOW!!!!

There is no way that MY communications with them and a suggestion (in followup e-mails) that a sticker placed over the sign could fix the problem has been acted on that quickly!!! But there was no indication when I suggested it, that they were already in work on that, only that it was a good idea to save money.

I have to believe it was already in the works. Gov't just does not move that fast.
 

Heartless_Conservative

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, Oregon, USA
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You are prohibited from concealing upon your person or in a car (if readily accessible) and you are specifically authorized to have a firearm in your home, RV, or place of buisiness. Because there is not prohibition for a concealed firearm other than on your person or in a car, you can have your handguns or long guns concealed in your home, RV, or business - BUT NOT CONCEALED ON YOUR PERSON IN THOSE LOCATIONS.
Can anyone clarify this? I always thought the ban on unlicensed concealed carry was only for public places (and vehicles in public places), banning carry inside a private residence is pretty blatantly unconstitutional.
 

We-the-People

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That's the best I could figure out but like I said....I AM NOT A LAWYER.

The way our laws work in this country is that it is legal unless there is a law making it illegal. You can't prove something is legal by using the law, only that something is illegal. If it's not illegal it is, by default, legal.

Since the law says:

166.250 Unlawful possession of firearms. (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section or ORS 166.260, 166.270, 166.274, 166.291, 166.292 or 166.410 to 166.470, a person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if the person knowingly:[/b]

(a) Carries any firearm concealed upon the person;

Source: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html

And I know of no place in the ORS that makes an exemption for inside your home.

Therefore the best I can determine is that carrying a concealed weapon (without a CHL) in your home would fit subsection (a) and therefore be illegal.

AGAIN....I am not a lawyer.
 

We-the-People

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An update on the State Parks and Recreation Dept. actions to fix the erroneous wording on the state parks signs. They really were responsive to the initial inquiry and took care of it as well as looking for others.

I think it would be nice if there were a lot of thank you notes sent to Chris and the department from the members here.



OUR MOST RECENT E-MAIL EXCHANGE:

From: "Chris Havel" <chris.havel@state.or.us>
To: ME

Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:22 AM
Subject: Update on state park firearms rule signs

Just an FYI: stickers to cover up the old, out-of-date rule language on
firearms in state parks are being distributed statewide. We should have this
incorrect language covered up in fairly short order. If you happen to visit
a state park and notice the sticker has yet to go up, just send me a note
and I'll take care of it.

Thanks.
--
Chris Havel




FROM: ME TO CHRIS 10-2-09 9pm

I really appreciate the mail to let me know the stickers are going up
statewide. I've already seen a picture of the one at Joseph Stewart on the
web site I mentioned in my e-mail of 9-3-09 (http://www.opencarry.org/]www.opencarry.org[/url]). I am
curious if the stickers are a result of my suggestion or had already been in
the works. It seems like a very rapid response if they weren't already in
the works.

If they weren't already being worked on, I commend you and your department
for being able to take such rapid action. I'm sure the members of
opencarry.org would second that as we are more used to encountering foot
dragging. Either way, it's refreshing to see something important to us be
corrected.

SIGNED, ME



FROM CHRIS TO ME 10-02-09 11:59pm

A bit of both, actually. We made the sticker for this sign and one other park where we knew there was old language, then checked more thoroughly statewide and discovered quite a few signs were out of date, so mass produced the sticker and sent them out.



MY FINAL REPLY TO CHRIS THANKING HIM AGAIN

Thank you for the information. I'll be sure to post it on the open carry
website in the Oregon forum so that the members will know that the parks and
recreation department is responsive and timely.

If there are any other signs that come to my attention on the boards I'll be
sure to let you know. I know that there have been several others reported
in the past that were not of the type that you've fixed with the stickers in
this case. If I remember correctly, the one's I'm thinking of have been
corrected by those that encountered them working with local staff. In an
area as large as a state though, there are probably a few floating around
here and there.

Again, thank you for the prompt response on this issue.

SIGNED: ME
 

kgasso

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Aug 24, 2009
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Not to necro this thread too badly, but at lunch today, noticed that the Abby's on Beacon Drive in Grants Pass has recently put up a little "no guns" sticker at one of their entrance doors. The other doors remain unmarked.

Fortunately, it was a picture of a revolver with a "no symbol" (circle/slash), so I assumed that meant no revolvers were allowed and that my autoloader was okay. ;)
 

We-the-People

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Aug 13, 2009
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White City, Oregon, USA
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You might inquire OFFICIALLY of the OWNER if they are aware of the sticker. It could be that some anti customer (or employee) just stuck it on there.

If it's "official" then it needs to be added to the "do not patronize" list for the area that I maintain on my local (southern Oregon only) site. Anyone in southern Oregon interested can PM me for a link to the site.
 
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