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Thread: Visiting NJ on a multi-part journey

  1. #1
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    In a few weeks, I am leaving my home in rural Nevada to drop somebody off in southern California, and then fly from LAX to Newark. I'll be visiting family for a week in NJ, then flying to Oklahoma for a few days, and then back home to Nevada. I have the feeling that bringing any weapons might be a major pain in the neck.

    For starters, California bans the possession of magazines that hold 10 or more rounds, so I will have to make sure I don't bring those along since I am passing through that state.

    Next, I arrive in NJ where hollow points are illegal, so I cannot bring those. I am hoping that it is at least legal for me to transport a handgun from the airport directly to my family home there, assuming it is unloaded and locked in the trunk separate from any ammunition. Can anyone verify this and/or any other laws I should be aware of?

    From on to Oklahoma which also bans open carry but at least honors my Utah CCW permit, and doesn't seem to have any other totally unreasonable laws like CA and NJ do. Then finally back to Nevada, a relatively free state in terms of gun laws.

    I would appreciate any comments or advice on how I can successfully and lawfully bring along a handgun on this journey without running afoul of NJ laws.

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    New Jersey Gun, Knife & Weapon Law. This book is a reference for laypersons written by a New Jersey firearms attorney. Click on this link: http://www.evannappen.com/nappenii/ , or call 732-222-2700.

    Another person who did something similar to what you want to do...


    Brian Aitken Follows New Jersey Gun Laws and Now Faces 7 Years in Prison



    Brian Aitken

    On January 2, 2009 Brian Aitken was wrongfully arrested for illegal possession of firearms while moving from one residence to another within the state of New Jersey after law enforcement was called to a family residence during a verbal dispute between Brian and his parents over issues stemming from a recent divorce and an ongoing custody battle for rights to see his son. Law enforcement officials responded to a dropped 911 call at his Parent’s residence. These details were provided to me during a phone interview with Brian.

    The guns Brian owned were purchased legally while living in the state of Colorado after going through the normal FBI and CBI background checks to be approved to purchase the firearms. During his move back to the state of New Jersey, Brian received clearance by TSA to transport his firearms via checked baggage. Brian has an Uncle who served in law enforcement who made sure he was fully aware of the need to contact the New Jersey State Police to see if there were any special requirements needed to register or license. Which he did and was informed that he did not have to register the guns.

    Please take a few seconds from your day and vote for Brian’s story to be heard on Freedom Watch with the Judge by clicking the following link: http://freedomwatch.uservoice.com/pages/16626-freedom-watch-guest-suggestions/suggestions/267495-brian-aitken

    Brian Aitken was also informed that if he would wish to purchase more guns or ammunition he would need a New Jersey Firearms Purchaser ID Card. He had no desire to purchase either item and chose not to apply for an Purchasing ID Card. During his conversation with the New Jersey State Police, Mr. Aitken was also informed that he could apply for a Conceal Carry Permit, of which he chose not to pursue since he planned to only keep the firearms for home defense.

    At the time of Brian’s arrest his guns were locked in the trunk of his vehicle, unloaded, and in wrapped in cloth and stored in a duffle bag. New Jersey law only requires they be unloaded, stored in a locked trunk, and stored away from ammunition. Which all laws were followed, according to statement provided to me by Brian himself.

    New Jersey Firearm Statutes and Laws:



    NJS 2C:39-6e:
    “Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person… from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving…”

    NJS 2C:39-6g:
    “All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.”


    (No one knows how badly you have to stop to pee. Any deviation frompoint A to point B can get you in trouble.)

    New Jersey State Police - New Jersey Firearm Laws

    During my interview with Mr. Aitken, he also told me that he was charged with possession of illegal hollow point ammunition. According to New Jersey law, listed below, these bullets were not in violation of these laws.




    N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) limits the possession of hollow nose ammunition. However, there is a general exception that allows for the purchase of this ammunition but restricts the possession of it to specified locations. This exception provides that:

    (2) Nothing is sub section f (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land . . . [N.J.S.A 26:39-3g (2)].

    Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition “persons engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f. . . .”
    N.J.S.A 26:39-3f. (1).
    More details on the Hollow Point issue can be found at:

    Transportation and Use of Hollow Point Ammunition by Sportsmen

    According to Brian Aitken, he was threatened with incarceration if he did not answer questions and consent to the search of his vehicle. He also told me that his Miranda Rights were read to him approximately 1 1/2 hours after his search and seizure. There seems to be violations of his Second, Fourth, and Fifth Amendment Rights with his case. Taking into consideration, State and Federal laws which protect a citizens right to own and transport legally purchased firearms, I would assume it safe to say that this case appears to be politically motivated for reasons the law enforcement officials and Assistant Prosecuting Attorney, John Brennan can only answer. John Brennan is the Assistant Prosecuting Attorney who has chosen not to drop charges against Brian and to prosecute his case.

    (The above paragraph illustrates what is typical of New Jersey. The Gestapo tactics begin road-side with the police. If it was not hollow-points, it would have been something else.)

    I was also informed that, due to Brian not being able to afford a lengthy court battle, his attorney informed him that the prosecutor was offering Mr. Aitken only a 5 year sentence if he pleaded guilty. Brian has no desire to plead to a crime that he didn’t commit and declined the offer. I wouldn’t plead guilty for a crime I didn’t commit either!

    If all of this wasn’t enough, a Judge Sheldon Franklin of Ocean County Family Court in New Jersey also chose to remove all visitation rights from Brian Aitken except 1 hour per week in the presence of law enforcement officials inside the Ocean County Family Court. Judge Franklin, according to Mr. Aitken, chose to treat him as though he were a violent criminal, even though Mr. Aitken is no longer in possession of the firearms and the charges against him are non-violent and victimless.


    Brian Aitken and Son

    Brian stated:



    “The charges against me are non-violent and victimless. I did everything I could to follow the letter of the law; I checked the State Statutes, I contacted the New Jersey State Police… I did everything by-the-book. The Courts don’t seem to care. My son has gone fatherless for over one-third of his life because of a charge without merit. It’s time for this to end.”
    I would also like to add that while interviewing Brian, he talked about his generous nature with helping with non-profit organizations and even taking time away from work so he can take an elderly neighbor to his kidney dialysis 3 times a week. Does he really sound like a violent criminal to you? I believe the courts of New Jersey are busy enough that they don’t need to be looking to railroad good citizens for legal gun ownership.

    I ask that you share this story with everyone you can to help Mr. Brian Aitken find justice in this case. If you know of someone with ties to the National Rifle Association or Gun Owners of America, please get these someone in one of these organizations to help him with his battle.

    Also, if you are an attorney wishing to help Brian, please use my contact form (at the top of each page) and send me your information so I can pass it along to Brian. He needs your help immediately to fight these unlawful attacks on his Constitutional Rights and Freedoms!



  3. #3
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    Summary of above: If you visit New Jersey with a firearm, plan on staying for at least five years.

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    There was also a fellow whose airplane was delayed and he had to stay overnight in Newark, NJ. He had a pistol, legally, in his checked bag. He was arrested on firearms charges.

    Don't bring weapons to NJ.

    Ken

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    spiritof76 wrote:
    In a few weeks, I am leaving my home in rural Nevada to drop somebody off in southern California, and then fly from LAX to Newark. I'll be visiting family for a week in NJ, then flying to Oklahoma for a few days, and then back home to Nevada. I have the feeling that bringing any weapons might be a major pain in the neck.

    For starters, California bans the possession of magazines that hold 10 or more rounds, so I will have to make sure I don't bring those along since I am passing through that state.

    Next, I arrive in NJ where hollow points are illegal, so I cannot bring those. I am hoping that it is at least legal for me to transport a handgun from the airport directly to my family home there, assuming it is unloaded and locked in the trunk separate from any ammunition. Can anyone verify this and/or any other laws I should be aware of?

    From on to Oklahoma which also bans open carry but at least honors my Utah CCW permit, and doesn't seem to have any other totally unreasonable laws like CA and NJ do. Then finally back to Nevada, a relatively free state in terms of gun laws.

    I would appreciate any comments or advice on how I can successfully and lawfully bring along a handgun on this journey without running afoul of NJ laws.
    The main issue will not be arriving in NJ, but it will occur if you are flying back out of NJ. Arriving there, no one will know that you have a firearm in your checked luggage. However, if you depart through a NJ airport, they are supposed to check to ensure that you are in possession of the proper permit to possess/carry the firearm when you check it in at the Airport.

    There have beencases where someone has been stuck at a New Yorkairport because a connecting flight got canceled. They had a legal firearm in their checked luggage. It was legal for them to have the gun where they departed from, and it was legal for them to have the gun at their final destination. They were sent overnight to a hotel, and the were told they had to take their checked luggage with them. The next morning as they were checking the gun back in at the Airport, the Airport Security called the police because it wasn't legal for them to have the gun in New York.

    U.S. Code Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44 Section 926A, does not cover you in this instance. It is written specifically for transportation via motor vehicle, not common carrier.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    Newark, NJ is to Pahrump NV as Pyongyang, N. Korea is to Pahrump NV!

    (I've been to both Newark and Pahrump, so I kinda know what I'm talking about. NJ is one of the "occupied territories" and in many respects isn't part of the United States anymore. I know this sounds a bit silly on the surface of it, but if you read the above horror stories and realize they are true, and consider that NJ has been run for many decades by a corrupt, entrenched, single-party political machine with strong mob connections, you'll realize that the gun issue is just the tip of the iceberg here.

    Botton line:

    DON'T EVER, EVER BRING A GUN TO NEW JERSEY. EVER !!!! REALLY !!!






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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    Newark, NJ is to Pahrump NV as Pyongyang, N. Korea is to Pahrump NV!
    Your points are well-taken, everyone.

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    LMAO. I grew up in NJ, I know...... let the pitty party begin. Now that I am an adult, I can't stand the place. Grew up on the shore, loved it. But as a kid, the laws didn't affect me like they do now. Found my way on the NJ forum for a strange reason. I was on www.usacarry.com. They have a map which you can see where your CCW permits are accepted. I have a Non Resident TX and resident ID permit. Apparently TX is accepted in NJ, hence the reason I am in this forum. I had to look at it several times to make sure I am clicking the correct link, button and state. I ask anyone to go there and see if I am just blind. If NJ accepts my TX permit then I am good and shouldn't experiance any issues in NJ, again LMAO. I am thinking of making a call to the State, County, Municipal and local LEO and find out if the answers are similar. I will record those answers too. Not going to NJ anytime soon, but will if I know I can carry leagally. I feel for the victims of the BS NJ laws and the idiots who created them. I would hope that Brian eventually gets his day in court and wins. Ocean county is rough, don't ever get thrown in jail on the shore in that county, no cameras back in the late 80's so you were hit by LEO and it was your word against theirs. I still am explaining myself for an arrest from 1990 that was dropped because they found the right guy. Try telling explaining a drug charge that never really happened but still on the record. JERSEY SUCKS. Hey if anyone knows if a out of state permit is good there, let me know. Thanks. Brian.....hang in there.

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    I am sorry, I am mistaken. I just found other sites and they state NJ doesn't accept other state permits. I believe that to be a true statement given it is NJ we are talking about here. What was I thinking??????????????????? The first sight I checked needs to update some @%(&% !!

  10. #10
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    If you decide to bring a firearm into the PRNJ be aware that the police tend to arrest first and ask questions later.
    You may be perfectly legal, but you may have to prove it in court.
    New Jersey government and Law Enforcement are extremely anti-gun/anti-citizen rights and will prosecute with the ferocity of an rabid pitbull.
    I wish you well on your trip but if possible don't bring you firearm into this shithole state.
    For the record hollwpoints are not illegal in NJ.
    You can buy them.
    You can have them in your home for self defense and you can take them to the range.
    you can't have them in your carry weapon, but since no one but cops and politicians can get a carry license it a moot point for most of us.

    In NJ paranoia is your friend.

    sandcast69

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    On a related subject, the mayor of Paterson, NJ recently announced he wants to institute a midnight - 7am curfew for ALL ADULTS because it's getting too dangerous there:

    Video of announcement

    News articles

  12. #12
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    I'm from NJ and it sucks..

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    "Adult curfews are usually associated with the imposition of martial law, which typically is restricted to emergencies, wartime or military occupation."

    How would this out of character for New Jersey?


  14. #14
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    Hello,

    If you are considering bringing a firearm to New Jersey, make a straight line
    from point A to point B only. Do not carry your firearm with you any where.
    Whenpassing through New Jersey in a motor vehicle you must have your firearm in a locked box in the trunk,
    ammunition in the glove box locked and be going to or from the range only.
    You are permittedpeaceable passage through the state and to refuel or hotel only.
    You can not throw your gun in the trunk and drive over to grandma's house.
    That means from the airportdirectly to where ever you are stayingin New Jersey only.
    Hallo point ammunitionisillegalin New Jersey so bring some flat nose, round nose etc...
    The reason for this is they can't perform actuate ballistics on pieces of a hallo point round.
    Also make sure you havea magazine with less than 14 rounds.
    In a home where there are childrenyour firearm must be locked.


    I have lived in New Jersey for 39 years and never owned a gun.
    They do not hand outgun permits. In fact as a citizen of New Jersey
    you would need to first apply for a purchasing permit. ( Good Luck With That ) .
    They claim : " We don't control guns we control people ".
    So if youdecide to bring a firearm with you, pleasebe very careful.

    I hope my post will help you.
    Good Luck My Friend.

    Magnum 500



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    Here's the issue w/NJ:

    You can transport THROUGH NJ. Since you're STOPPING there, you no longer are covered by FOPA.

    For legal transport in NJ, it can only be to/from YOUR property(YOU must own, not your family or a friend) to a range,gunsmith, hunting area, and presumably out of state. I have family in NJ, I wanted to bring mine up and leave it there unless I go to a shooting range and leave to go back to WV. The NJSP pretty much spit the statute back at me, and say I'd be rolling the dice doing that. If I came up and went directly to a range,shot a few rounds and promptly leave the state, that that would probably be OK.

    As I see it, there are only 3 options to bring your guns to NJ(none are good):1) get a NJ CCW 2) Buy(or rent) property in NJ(then you have a safe place to keep them until you leave) 3) when you land in Newark, immediately go to a gun shop, drop it off for cleaning and pick it up on your way to the airport to leave.

    Also keep in mind Newark is under the NY/NJ Port Authority. They have apparently arrested about 50 individuals LEGALLY travelling under FOPA, and seem to believe they can ignore federal laws.

    Your only weapon can be a small container of pepper spray, unfortunately.

    "During his conversation with the New Jersey State Police, Mr. Aitken was also informed that he could apply for a Conceal Carry Permit, of which he chose not to pursue since he planned to only keep the firearms for home defense." Hard to believe they actually suggested this, knowing he'll get denied no matter what.


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    In NJ... you have more to fear from the authorities than the BG's. Actually... they are one in the same for all practical purposes except for intent. Don't bring guns to NJ... better yet... don't bring anything to NJ ... including yourself. Advise your family to escape NJ by any means possible to most anywhere but NY and MD. No sane people would want to live there anyway.

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    sandcast69 wrote:
    If you decide to bring a firearm into the PRNJ be aware that the police tend to arrest first and ask questions later.
    You may be perfectly legal, but you may have to prove it in court.
    New Jersey government and Law Enforcement are extremely anti-gun/anti-citizen rights and will prosecute with the ferocity of an rabid pitbull.
    I wish you well on your trip but if possible don't bring you firearm into this @#$%hole state.
    For the record hollwpoints are not illegal in NJ.
    You can buy them.
    You can have them in your home for self defense and you can take them to the range.
    you can't have them in your carry weapon, but since no one but cops and politicians can get a carry license it a moot point for most of us.

    In NJ paranoia is your friend.

    sandcast69
    so how are hollow points illigal if you can have them in you home and take them to the range when will the illegal part surfice? doesnt seem to make sense to me

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    eric55 wrote:
    sandcast69 wrote:
    If you decide to bring a firearm into the PRNJ be aware that the police tend to arrest first and ask questions later.
    You may be perfectly legal, but you may have to prove it in court.
    New Jersey government and Law Enforcement are extremely anti-gun/anti-citizen rights and will prosecute with the ferocity of an rabid pitbull.
    I wish you well on your trip but if possible don't bring you firearm into this @#$%hole state.
    For the record hollwpoints are not illegal in NJ.
    You can buy them.
    You can have them in your home for self defense and you can take them to the range.
    you can't have them in your carry weapon, but since no one but cops and politicians can get a carry license it a moot point for most of us.

    In NJ paranoia is your friend.

    sandcast69
    so how are hollow points illigal if you can have them in you home and take them to the range when will the illegal part surfice? doesnt seem to make sense to me
    The illegal part kicks in when you deviate from the law for example:
    You go from your home to the range with your hollow points... legal
    You then leave the range and go to the supermarket, walmart, grandmas house for dinner, etc, with hollowpoints still in your car instead of directly back to your home to unload your firearms and hollowpoint bullets...VERY Illegal!
    They aren't banned outright but they are highly regulated as to where you
    can and can't have them.


    Hope this helped.
    sandcast69

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