Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 46

Thread: Run in with cops, bad experience with bank and police

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    51

    Post imported post

    This happened back on the 19th, I haven't posted here in awhile, but I feel obligated to share my very unprofessional experience with police and a bank in Jackson.

    I went to pick up my Remington 700, and went to the bank to pull out cash for it. I don’t use credit cards at my gunshop because there is another 4% charge thrown on, so I’m cheap. I usually carry my sidearm wherever I go, butt I made a note of it today, since $600 is a lot of money to me. I went to the bank, filled out a check made to cash, and went up to the teller. I have been using this bank for a year now, and have OC’d in there many times and not had an issue. This time I went up to the teller

    As we were exchanging greetings and I was sliding the check and deposit slip on the counter, another teller came up to me from a desk. I thought he was only going to talk to me, but instead he grabbed my right arm(strongside) we had the following conversation

    Teller: You have to take that off.
    Me: I do?
    Teller: yes this is a federal building and you will need to take it off and put it in your vehicle


    Being halfway between a transaction, I looked at the checks that I was handing over to the lady behind the counter. The teller that grabbed my arm tried to take the checks and deposit slip from my hand and said “ I can finish your transaction” to which I told him no, I would do it myself. I then asked if we could step outside to talk about this since my weapon wasn’t allowed in the bank. He said yes, and I led him out. After we got outside, he said the following.

    Teller: this is a federal building, you are not allowed to bring a weapon into a federal building

    Me: this is not a federal building, this is a private local bank

    Teller: this is FDIC and therefore a federal building

    I knew this was not accurate, so I asked if I could talk to the owner, and in the meantime I said I would put my sidearm in my car. He said OK and got on the phone. I put my gun in my car and walked back to him, he said it was ok to go and do my transaction, so I did. After I got outside, I stood around for 10 minutes while he was on the phone. Little did I know that this teller, instead of calling his boss, called the police.

    I walked up to him and said: This is your boss?
    Teller: No, these are people that will explain to you what you did wrong.

    So the sheriff, and two others from Jackson city police, from two squad cars come up to me. One asked if there was a problem, the teller, told them I came into the building, and said that when he asked me to leave, said I was “adamant’ about finishing my transaction.

    After he said that, I replied that I was only adamant because he came up, grabbed me by the arm, and tried to take my checks from my hand.

    There were three officers, one to the left, center and right.

    Right officer: Where is your sidearm now?
    Me: In my car, sir.
    Right officer: where in your car?
    Me: In the center console, sir.
    Right officer: what kind of gun?
    Me: a 1911
    Right officer: is it ok if I look at it?
    Me: No sir, that is not needed.


    The right officer asked for my ID, and called in on his radio.

    The center officer then asked if I had been in trouble. to which I said I never have been. He asked how long I’d been here, to which I said a year. He asked where I was from, I told him Maryland.

    Center officer: Would you carry a gun into a bank in Maryland.
    Me: No sir, it is not legal to carry there, but if it was, then I would.
    Him: what you did was stupid, would you carry a gun into a bar here?
    Me: No sir, I don’t drink.
    Him: I don't care if you do, lets say you were going to a bar, would you bring a gun?
    Me: No sir
    Right Officer: Why are you carrying a loaded gun around?
    Me: Sir, I’m drawing out a lot of money and want to make sure I am safe
    Right Officer: how much?
    Me: $600 sir.
    Right officer: $600? Is that it? Maybe 600,000 I’d understand.
    I told him that that was a huge hunk of my savings, and was therefore a lot to me.

    Center Officer: Are you a dumbass?
    Me: No sir, but I am a citizen and have a right to carry
    Centerofficer:Shut the hell up and don't interrupt me
    Me: Yes sir
    Center officer: You're a dumbass, I have a feeling we'll be having a lot of trouble with you.

    They then talked about wether it was legal for me to OC into a bank.

    Center Officer: this sounds like an issue for the FBI, they could answer it, in fact, I'm gonna give them a call right now.

    Right officer: I'm already talking to them
    *minute passes by*
    Right officer: Ok, it doesn't look like it's illegal.

    center officer: So if you walked out with all your money and someone robbed you, would you shoot him?
    Me: No sir, if someone robbed me, then they robbed me, but if someone robbed me, then tried to take my life, I would defend myself.

    At the end, after they told me to leave and to “have some common sense” I asked the center officer if I could have his business card in case I had any more questions, and he said “fuck no” and they all walked off.

    This all happened at the main branch of "Bank of Jackson hole" I since have gone back to the bank. I talked to one of the managers, and the manager informed me that there is a policy against guns. I will be getting a written letter of apology from the teller, and in return I won't be pressing charges against him for assault. I will be taking my business to another bank, and let the manager know that. BTW the bank does not have a "no firearms" sign in the window

    As for the center police officer, I will be filing a formal complaint against him, for unprofessional conduct, and refusing to identify himself. Since there were three cops, and only me, I doubt anything will come from it. I fear however, that since this is a small town, I will be getting harassed by this officer in the future(I have already seen the right officer drive around twice since, so running into them is fairly simple. There was even an officer in the business I work for, walking around. in the conversation above, when talking about money, I told them where I worked, when they asked)

    I will also be looking into a good voice recorder.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    376

    Post imported post

    I will also be looking into a good voice recorder.

    Come on now you should already have one given all the fun fun experiences people have had with police.

    Speaking of fun with police, have you seen the "don't talk to police" video?

    If someone on the government dole started getting lippy with me, calling me stupid and such, I'd be demanding a supervisor and would most certainly drop the "sirs" and such. Just me.

    I know hindsight is 20/20, just saying that it might be worthwhile to go into 4th/5th amendment modes pretty quick. No point in standing there getting insulted.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    , South Dakota, USA
    Posts
    119

    Post imported post

    Would it be a good idea if you posted the bank address and name of the manager and a number of us sent "letters of concern" to the bank? How about the same thing to the police chief of Jackson?





  4. #4
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    mdguy90 wrote:
    This all happened at the main branch of "Bank of Jackson hole" I since have gone back to the bank. I talked to one of the managers, and the manager informed me that there is a policy against guns. I will be getting a written letter of apology from the teller, and in return I won't be pressing charges against him for assault. I will be taking my business to another bank, and let the manager know that. BTW the bank does not have a "no firearms" sign in the window

    As for the center police officer, I will be filing a formal complaint against him, for unprofessional conduct, and refusing to identify himself. Since there were three cops, and only me, I doubt anything will come from it. I fear however, that since this is a small town, I will be getting harassed by this officer in the future(I have already seen the right officer drive around twice since, so running into them is fairly simple. There was even an officer in the business I work for, walking around. in the conversation above, when talking about money, I told them where I worked, when they asked)

    I will also be looking into a good voice recorder.

    Sounds like you did very well, mdguy. The bank personnel treated you pretty shabbily. And the coppers were even worse.

    But you kept your kool.

    I'm heartened that you're going through the complaint with Ofc. Center. But, really, they acted as a group. Your complaint is against the trio. Hopefully, your complaint will be effective and Ofc. C's behavior will be corrected.

    Just one question: When you "OC’d in there many times," did the bank's employee(s) notice the gun?


  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    50

    Post imported post

    the cops are jackasses and i'm 100% sure abuse their power daily.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Thos.Jefferson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    just south of the river, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    288

    Post imported post

    A letter of apology would not satisfy me I would most assuredly be pressing charges against the teller just as a matter of principle. If you were carrying why would you hinder your gun arm by handing the documents with that arm? I don't know about anyone else but I sure learned something from your post, thanx!
    He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent which will reach to himself. -- Thomas Paine (1737--1809), Dissertation on First Principles of Government, 1795

  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,887

    Post imported post

    Wow. Definitely follow up on this matter. I think you have the right mindset.

    In the meanwhile, as you said, get a recording device(s) - maybe video too.

    BEFORE you file your complain, I would file your state's version of an "open records" request for all documents andvideo/audio recordings related to this stop.

    Also, you may want to remove the many details of the incident from public view. Police agencieshave been known to monitor forums such as these, then tailor the content, or the actual release of documents to benefit their officers/agency.

  8. #8
    Regular Member AB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    ACTIVIST Cheyenne, Wyoming
    Posts
    240

    Post imported post

    I won't post the old "this is what I would have done", but I will say that the cops have a duty to tell anyone that,"you are within your rights", and if they don't like it they can ask that you can take the gun out of the business, but there is no law against it.

    P.S. that includes a bar.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    447

    Post imported post

    Wow. Just wow.

    I commend you for keeping your cool. I would have had a hard time being civil after being treated that badly by the men and women who are sworn to "serve and protect" not "harass and verbally abuse" I guess I have a bit of an attitude since my father was a police officer when I was growing up, and I was taught over and over how they can and can't act and what they can and can't do. Once again, good job on the awful interaction and good luck with any complaints/law suits.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Alabama, ,
    Posts
    1,338

    Post imported post

    Also to keep in mind, when they are driving up, just step inside.
    That way you are on federal property and they have no authority.
    You can have the teller back you up with this one.
    If you really want to drive the teller nuts. Point out that only the first
    250K is fdic the rest is not on federal property. That should get
    his gray matter churning. :shock:

    Would have loved to seen their faces. No that would be illegal.




  11. #11
    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Evanston, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    647

    Post imported post

    Thos.Jefferson wrote:
    A letter of apology would not satisfy me I would most assuredly be pressing charges against the teller just as a matter of principle. If you were carrying why would you hinder your gun arm by handing the documents with that arm? I don't know about anyone else but I sure learned something from your post, thanx!
    And since the teller attempted to forcefully take your checks from you I'd add attempted robbery to that assault charge as well.
    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

  12. #12
    Regular Member opusd2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Butt is in, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    453

    Post imported post

    You definitely get my respect for being able to keep your cool as you did. I for one would have been an ass and made things worse for myself, unless I put some MAJOR work into being good.

    And with all of that in mind, you were wronged. I would definitely make sure that a forced note of apology would not be sufficient, that teller was wrong and could have really done some damage to you in their sense of self-righteousness. Who is to say that the next time it happens it isn't some person they REALLY hurt. They tried to use the law against you, make sure it works for you. It isn't being petty, you are exercising your rights.

    But most of all, a complaint against the officers' present would be quite appropriate. They tried to send you down on a federal charge after all and only gave in when their superior informed them they were wrong! This is power abused and it isn't the kind of law enforcement we as Americans deserve. These people are hired to make or world better for those who were wronged against, or at least it's how it should be. But instead they are bullies with licenses to be bigger bullies with arms to make them even more dangerous. But what really makes them dangerous is the fact that they are ignorant of the laws they are supposed to defend.

    A couple of fines and charges against them would give them a better respect for the laws that apply to all of us in this country. You have every right and even a need to pursue this with their superiors and their department.
    I aim to misbehave

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Escondido, California, USA
    Posts
    1,140

    Post imported post

    MAD RESPECT for keeping your cool.

    This sort of crap is almost as bad, if not worse, than what we have out here in CA.

    Sony makes REALLY good voice recorders. Make sure it has a USB port on it too.

    Freaking cops.

    If you need help with your complaint, shoot me a PM. I have filed two and I am on my third and I will be more than happy to help you.

  14. #14
    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Spokane, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,067

    Post imported post

    mdguy90 wrote:
    [SNIP]

    This all happened at the main branch of "Bank of Jackson hole"

    [SNIP]

    I will also be looking into a good voice recorder.
    At first I couldn't believe my eyes. This didn't sound like the Wyoming I've been through more than a few times... But then I caught that bit about the main branch of Bank of Jackson Hole... If you were actually in the Town of Jackson this makes things more clear to me. I'm convinced that tiny section of the state isn't really a part of Wyoming, but instead a segment of California that has been moved northeast into the Tetons.


    As for the voice recorder, if you haven't bought one yet, I recommend the Olympus DS-40. With the right settings, you can record a whisper up to 6 feet away and have clear conversations recorded up to 15 feet away without anyone raising their voice. They're pricey (around $120 to $150) but the sound quality is better than anything else I've heard.

  15. #15
    Regular Member AB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    ACTIVIST Cheyenne, Wyoming
    Posts
    240

    Post imported post

    shad0wfax wrote:
    ...tiny section of the state isn't really a part of Wyoming, but instead a segment of California that has been moved northeast into the Tetons.
    You are correct.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Escondido, California, USA
    Posts
    1,140

    Post imported post

    Sorry guys about the Californians

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605

    Post imported post

    There is no Law in Wyoming that criminalizes carrying a Firearm into a Bank, but there are some States that do criminalize this behavior. Unfortunately, when the Police are not too well informed on certain places that may be off limits or not they tend to assume that it is off limits to Firearms.

    For example, in Wyoming you may carry your Firearm to a Political Rally; however, you may not carry your Firearm to a Sporting Event. Although they are both uniquely different a Police Officer might accidently confuse the two, by thinking they are both illegal because there may be a lot of people in attendance. Likewise you may carry your Firearm into a Bank, as there are no Laws against it in Wyoming, but you may not carry your Firearm into a Bar. Interestly, these restrictions seem only to apply to concealed carry and not open carry, per 6-8-104(t), and because of 6-8-401, Localities can not enforce anything anystricter than State Law concerning Firearms.

    What makes6-8-104(t) unique is that it only applies to concealed carry, not open carry, so open carry is legal throughout Wyoming... seemingly everywhere in Wyoming... so as long as you do not carry a Firearm concealed. Hereagain, just do not carry a Firearm to any place that is off limits per Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 930. Banks are not off limits per FederalLaw 18 U.S.C. 930, butPost Offices are though.

    18 U.S.C. 930(g)(1) the term'FederalFacility' means: a building... or any part thereof... that is owned or leased by The United States Federal Government... where Federal employees are regularly present... performing their duties, and

    18 U.S.C. 930(h)requires these restrictions to be...posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal Facility.

    Whenever any Bank attendant tries to tell you that their Bank is off limits per Federal Law, then, politely ask them if they are a Federal Facility and ask to see the posted prohibitions per Federal Law restricting Firearms from their Financial Establishment. If they are rude, or insist that you are trespassing, just inform them that you will take your business elsewhere.If the Bank has signs at the door prohibiting Firearms, then, just take your business elsewhere before you even go in. However, if you have aConcealed Firearms License just conceal your Firearm before you go in, and therefore... none the wiser, so they say. Although someStates spell out exceptions, like Texas or South Carolina, most times those signs carry no legal weight in the Court of Law unless you are specifically told that Firearms are not welcome and you bring them inside anyway, hence... Criminal Trespassing.

    The FederalDeposit Insurance Corporations protections do not make a Private Bank off limits, but per 18 U.S.C 930 their headquartersat 1776 F Street, N.W. is though.


  18. #18
    Regular Member AB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    ACTIVIST Cheyenne, Wyoming
    Posts
    240

    Post imported post

    aadvark wrote:
    ...you may not carry your Firearm to a Sporting Event...
    No law on OC about this.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Escondido, California, USA
    Posts
    1,140

    Post imported post

    AB wrote:
    aadvark wrote:
    ...you may not carry your Firearm to a Sporting Event...
    No law on OC about this.
    He stated it above.

  20. #20
    Regular Member AB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    ACTIVIST Cheyenne, Wyoming
    Posts
    240

    Post imported post

    Yes I got that but also he also said "seem only to apply to concealed carry and not open carry" and "seemingly everywhere in Wyoming... "

    Just double clarifying.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Escondido, California, USA
    Posts
    1,140

    Post imported post

    AB wrote:
    Yes I got that but also he also said "seem only to apply to concealed carry and not open carry" and "seemingly everywhere in Wyoming... "

    Just double clarifying.
    Please pardon my previous comment then.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605

    Post imported post

    Per Wyoming State Law 6-8-104(t)(vi)... No permit issued pursuant to this section... shall authorize any person to carry a concealed firearm... [into a] professional athletic event not related to firearms.

    Notice the Law says concealed, not openly, therefore open carry is not prohibited. The same line of reasoning can be used for any other place off limits to concealed carry in Wyoming.

    For example, one may not carry a concealed Handgun into a Bar, but if it is openly carried the provisions of 6-8-104(t)(vii) do not apply. If one wants to go to His favorite Sporting Event in Wyoming, ex. a big Rodeo, and the same Person wants to carry a big gun while there, then, He has to carry it openly. His permit will not help Him while there at that Rodeo; because,if he conceals his gun at His Rodeo then He will go to jail for 6 months and pay a $750 fine.

    While in Wyoming, keep it simple and follow tradition... carry your guns openly if at all possible,so to avoid running a foul with the many off limits places for concealed carry.



  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Where I happen to hang my hat, ,
    Posts
    23

    Post imported post

    The entire Northwest corner of Wyoming along with theVail, Aspen and most resorts in Coloradoare almost like a San Francisco suburb.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    51

    Post imported post

    Update: This was posted on ARFCOM, I was able to resolve the issue with the police off the record without filing a formal complaint.

    This is what was released:

    "My name is Scott Terry. I am a captain with the Teton County, Wyoming Sheriff’s Office. The sheriff was made aware of the allegations contained in this thread although a formal complaint was never received. Nonetheless, the sheriff ordered an internal investigation and that investigation has been completed. Our investigation concluded that the behavior complained of did in fact occur. As a result, two of the law enforcement officers present were disciplined. As this is a personnel matter, Wyoming law prohibits me from discussing it,so this will be my only communication. I want to assure the readers of this forum that the Teton County Sheriff is dedicated to protecting our constitutional rights and will not tolerate deputies departing from that commitment. As a result of this event, all deputies will receive remedial training on the laws of Wyoming as they relate to the 2nd amendment of the United States Constitution.

    www.tetonsheriff.org"

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    20

    Post imported post

    Same thing here in Saratoga. I've been carrying open since I came here, daily, in 1995. One bar owner asked me not to, so I haven't since. Into banks for a long time. Then they got a wild hair about something, and even had me come into a back office where two suited men with pin lapels, claiming to be "Bank Presidents" gave me a long line about it being "Illegal." One I recognized as a Federal Attorney General.
    I most recently went into Rawlins National bank here with an empty holster and was angrily confronted by the bank manager about it. Face it, they have a mentality that's un-American, and for what it's worth, I've experienced a lot of anti-male Feminism from their staff, as well.
    While carrying open here is OK, the fact of the matter is that it takes quite a while for people to adjust to one. My whole life has been in espionage (Hence my need) and yet my life-long cover is one of a despicable. I hope to have formal recognition soon. (http://www.rickhyatt.freeservers.com)
    If Wyomingites think you're a pervert of ANY kind, they mobilize to surveill, monitor, harrass, intimidate and run down or put six feet under. The above bar owner, also the local drug baron, was also my neighbor & I reported drug activity to Police.
    So he put out a "Hit" on me, and two well-known gay-bashers apparently took up his offer of meth in exchange.
    My sons & I used to camp a lot, and couldn't understand why this multi-colored hair duo and a young woman had been constantly trying to run us off the road. Then, my son told me "Daddy, the two men in the truck are coming again & they have ski masks on." I'd been looking for winter gear, but they were taking them off as they approached us at our camping site, asking us strange questions, and quite obviously high and hyper. They kept looking at each other, me, my hostered .357, back at each other, and back again. One claimed to the be the Police Chief's son, laughing uproariously.
    A lot of other stuff later happened that evening, as in someone sneaking into our camp in the dark but leaving hurriedly when I chambered my shotgun. There were shouts & shots from their campground up above, later reported in the press as the "Spring Creek Assault," an apparent kidnapping & rape of a mixed race couple which became obvious was why their car's tires had been all flat yet the truck in attendance. Yet, we'd been at HOG PARK Creek.
    I reported this in detail to CC Sheriff Jerry Colson, who ignored me completely. He'd previously denied a CCW on the ground that he thought me "Paranoid." Going to lengths to inform him of that which I was sworn to secrecy about during my enlisted US Army M.I. status gets nowhere, and he always treats me like a "Nut Case."
    He was delighted to seize all my firearms and ammo for a time period (What a job!) that my brain-damaged wife got mad at me & reiterated to Family Services false claims that she'd made 27 years ago, that were dismissed WITHOUT PREJUDICE at the time. These were sent to Phoenix by HI Judge Ueoka, where along with other espionage documents sealed by HI Judge Komo, should be unsealed soon. In other words, she'll possibly go to jail for her attempted "Honey Trap"if she doesn't put me away as a witness, first, and "Sex" and "Guns" ALWAYS gets cops and Feminists in unbalanced heat.
    Any guess why local Editors nor "Investigative Reporters" will never report on my stories?
    Ironically, I was sworn in as a M.I. Warrant Officer, CID & Civil Affairs, on this "Social Stuty Experiment" before I ETS'd in '77, and told that when it was time, I'd get all my past paychecks, rank, status & be subpeona'd to D.C. It may happen soon as concerns Gary Condit, Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama and more.
    When McKinney and Henderson appeared in the press after beating Mathew Shepard to death in Laramie, I recognized them & reported such again, again to be ignored.
    There simply has to be several other similar unsolved murders with the same M.O. here, and WY politicians don't want any more public "Black eyes" about it.
    When I got a Florida CCW, these locals organized the state legislature to pass a special law that applied ONLY to me, that disallowed my Florida permit here.
    In actuality, for a person like me, not able to appear as if a PC-Correct bastion of the upper crust of society, concealed carry is polite, civil, non-disruptive, common sense carry. The bad boys know I'm always armed, and professional hit men are beware, anyway, but tourists from other states and local feminists & vigilantes always reach for their cell phones.
    I wonder, over the years, how much police resources, personnel and the like have been wasted in such false reporting. One of their favorite "Anonymous" harassment are READI reports, and I've been pulled over by the State Patrol for a DUI check several times.
    Even when I drive 10 mph under, just to be conservative.
    Even this in a state which USED to be "Open carry" with a beer can on the way home from a bar or work.
    As you can see, ANY regulation on gun carry simply allows the close control over ALL activities, legal and illegal - By the Power Who Be. I often wonder if the drug activity here is "Protected," the way I saw it so prevalently when living on Maui. There, CCW is prohibited - But the PC and racially Correct are issued covert "Sheriff's Deputy Badges," instead.
    They will take ALL your rights because it feels good - They're like anyone else and subconsciously like that kind of personal power over another human being. And the more tax money they accumulate to do it with, will anarchy grow.
    Obama is already building the gulags on military bases, I understand.
    I've deliberately endured this constant social burden here, just to make them get used to it - Guns DON'T equal terroristic violence, as the media brainwashes them into.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •