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Thread: OT- Shipping a Gun

  1. #1
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    I was wondering if I wanted to have my guns that i left in Texas shipped to me wouldI have to have them shipped to an FFL dealer or can they be shipped directly to me since they are registered to me

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    If I'm not mistaken you can ship them through UPS as a firearm to yourself or be sneaky and take them apart and ship them as machine parts.

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    I thought it had to go to FFL if out of state. In state it can go anywhere you wish. And UPS requires overnight on handguns, not sure about others.

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    You can ship YOUR guns to YOURSELF without going through an FFL. It needs to be done via FedEx or UPS though as the post office will only accept shipments from/to FFLs (for handguns, non FFL can send long guns via USPS).

    The catch is that many UPS and FedEx locations don't have a clue what their company policies and requirements are in regards to shipping firearms. I have heard many stories of folks being refused by people working the counter.

    "Disassembling" them and calling them "machine parts" is a wives tale. Federal law says the receiver (serialized part) is the "firearm". I f you send it alone or with parts (assembled or not) you are sending a "firearm"

    The basics are these:
    -Follow federal, state, and local laws.
    -Follow UPS/FedEx rules (both require overnight service at big bucks) If you send 3-day or ground it isn't against the law, but if it disappears, they probably won't cover the loss since you didn't play by their rules. When I sent a gun to Sig for repair, they emailed me a prepaid 3-day service label to send it in.

    Both seem to require adult signature on delivery, but when Sig my gun back to me (again by 3-day UPS), the driver left it on my porch when no one was home. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to claim it was stolen and have either Sig or UPS on the hook for a second gun.

    UPS says it will ship as "allowed by law" and has no requirement to notify that you are shipping a firearm (however federal law says you must notify the carrier of a firearm shipment).

    UPS Policy: http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res.../firearms.html

    FedEx says it allows shipments from an individual to a dealer, importer, or manufacturer and return from same. This would suggest they don't allow non dealer to non dealer shipment. FedEx also requires you advise the counter person you are shipping a firearm. Federal law says they CANNOT mark the package as containing a firearm. I don't know if they note in the system though that it is one or not. Personally I do not disclose this info, to many stories of guns disappearing while in FedEx care.

    FedEx policy: http://fedex.com/us/services/terms/

    USPS info: http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_008.htm

    BATF info: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8


    In looking at all of this, it seems perfectly legal to ship a handgun to someone in your own state (as in private sale) without it having to go through an FFL (as long as no local laws prohibit it), interesting, I never knew that before.

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    I had a problem with the shipping agent RE; a S&W going to the factory for repair,he would not ship it.I went home, called S&W,they told me to go back there,and if he didn't ship it,he was no longer a UPS agent.I went back,explained that S&W was the Biggest(At the Time)customer of UPS and what they said,he became really nice and even offered to take delivery when it came back as I was working really long hours.Alls well that ends well.

    BTW,glad you didn't get the UPS driver fired 911,I like those guys,they deliver good stuff for me,it's the USPS that delivers the bills and bad news.

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    911B
    "Disassembling" them and calling them "machine parts" is a wives tale. Federal law says the receiver (serialized part) is the "firearm". I f you send it alone or with parts (assembled or not) you are sending a "firearm"
    Not a wives tale but yes federal law may require something or other, however if you ship UPS ground they don't x-ray your package and it's less likely to be stolen by an employee who knows it's a gun and knows how much he can get for it on the street (which believe or not has and does happen).

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    FunkTrooper wrote:
    911B
    "Disassembling" them and calling them "machine parts" is a wives tale. Federal law says the receiver (serialized part) is the "firearm". I f you send it alone or with parts (assembled or not) you are sending a "firearm"
    Not a wives tale but yes federal law may require something or other, however if you ship UPS ground they don't x-ray your package and it's less likely to be stolen by an employee who knows it's a gun and knows how much he can get for it on the street (which believe or not has and does happen).
    Er, uh, .... isn't it a good idea to follow "what federal law may require?"


    What happens if you ship a gun as "machine parts" and the shipment is damaged and you have to make a claim? Do you make a claim on "machine parts" then...or a "firearm?"

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    HankT wrote:
    FunkTrooper wrote:
    911B
    "Disassembling" them and calling them "machine parts" is a wives tale. Federal law says the receiver (serialized part) is the "firearm". I f you send it alone or with parts (assembled or not) you are sending a "firearm"
    Not a wives tale but yes federal law may require something or other, however if you ship UPS ground they don't x-ray your package and it's less likely to be stolen by an employee who knows it's a gun and knows how much he can get for it on the street (which believe or not has and does happen).
    Er, uh, .... isn't it a good idea to follow "what federal law may require?"


    What happens if you ship a gun as "machine parts" and the shipment is damaged and you have to make a claim? Do you make a claim on "machine parts" then...or a "firearm?"
    So then don't make the claim. Oh nos the federal Government says you have to do something the way they say, well I disagree to me a disassembled firearm is no longer a firearm the feds can tell me they consider a firing pin to be a firearm and I care even less.

  9. #9
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    FunkTrooper wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    FunkTrooper wrote:
    911B
    "Disassembling" them and calling them "machine parts" is a wives tale. Federal law says the receiver (serialized part) is the "firearm". I f you send it alone or with parts (assembled or not) you are sending a "firearm"
    Not a wives tale but yes federal law may require something or other, however if you ship UPS ground they don't x-ray your package and it's less likely to be stolen by an employee who knows it's a gun and knows how much he can get for it on the street (which believe or not has and does happen).
    Er, uh, .... isn't it a good idea to follow "what federal law may require?"


    What happens if you ship a gun as "machine parts" and the shipment is damaged and you have to make a claim? Do you make a claim on "machine parts" then...or a "firearm?"
    So then don't make the claim. Oh nos the federal Government says you have to do something the way they say, well I disagree to me a disassembled firearm is no longer a firearm the feds can tell me they consider a firing pin to be a firearm and I care even less.
    Ah, the old "It doesn't matter, really" gambit ...and the ole standby "I don't care" resolution, eh?

    Excellent combo...very powerful........for simplists....



  10. #10
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    Well at least it seems like I dont have to send it to an FFL dealer that way it can come straight to my house. Oh yes I forgot to mention its only a couple of long guns sothey are probably easier to move than handguns?

  11. #11
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    ATF:
    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm
    (B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

    Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.



    Contract Carriers:

    Fed Ex
    Customers must observe the following procedures to ship firearms, including handguns, via Fed Ex:
    FedEx Express can only accept and deliver firearms between areas served in the U.S. under the following conditions: You agree to tender shipments of firearms to us only when either the shipper or recipient is a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer or licensed collector and is not prohibited from making such shipments by federal, state or local regulations. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable state law.
    Firearms must be shipped FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. or with a signature release. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx is required to notify the FedEx employee who accepts the package that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.
    You also agree not to ship firearms loaded or with ammunition in the same package. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms can provide assistance.
    http://www.fedex.com/us/services/termsa ... earms.html

    UPS
    Customers must observe the following procedures to ship firearms, including handguns, via UPS:
    UPS accepts firearm shipments from UPS daily pickup accounts and through UPS Customer Counters. UPS daily pickup accounts can also ship firearms, not including handguns, through UPS Internet Shipping, On Call Air Pickup®, and One-Time Pickup. Firearms are not accepted for shipment via UPS Letter Centers, UPS SonicAir BestFlightSM service, or international service. Firearms will not be accepted when presented for shipment at a UPS Authorized Shipping Outlet or a UPS Commercial Counter.
    UPS accepts handgun shipments from UPS daily pickup accounts and through UPS Customer Counters. Handguns are not accepted for shipment via UPS Letter Centers, UPS SonicAir BestFlight service, UPS Internet Shipping, UPS On Call Air Pickup, UPS One-Time Pickup, or international service. Handguns will not be accepted when presented for shipment at a UPS Authorized Shipping Outlet or a UPS Commercial Counter.
    Firearm shippers shipping through a UPS Customer Counter must have a letter on record with UPS stating their status as an authorized firearm shipper.
    The shipper must affix a UPS label, requesting an adult signature upon delivery, to each package containing a firearm.
    Packages containing handguns must be shipped via UPS Next Day Air Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, or UPS Next Day Air Saver® service.
    Packages containing handguns must be segregated from other packages being tendered to UPS. Handgun shippers must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Counter clerk of any package containing a handgun.
    UPS prohibits the inclusion of ammunition in packages containing firearms, including handguns.
    In locations where a UPS Next Day Air service is not offered, packages containing handguns must be shipped via the most premium domestic air service available.
    http://www.ups.com/using/services/details/firearms.html



    USPS
    Customers must observe the following procedures to ship firearms, including handguns, via USPS:
    43 Firearms
    431 Definitions
    431.1 Firearm
    A firearm is defined as any device (including a starter gun) that is designed, or may readily be converted, to expel a projectile by an explosion, a spring, or other mechanical action, or by air or gas pressure with sufficient force to be used as a weapon.
    431.2 Handgun
    Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (for example, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles) are defined as handguns. The following definitions apply:
    a. Pistol or Revolver. A pistol or revolver is a handgun designed to be fired by the use of a single hand.
    b. Short-Barreled Rifle. A rifle having one or more barrels less than 16 inches long is defined as a short-barreled rifle. This includes any weapon made from a rifle (by alteration or modification) resulting in an overall length of less than 26 inches.
    c. Short-Barreled Shotgun. A shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches long is defined as a short-barreled shotgun. This includes any weapon made from a shotgun (by alteration or modification) resulting in an overall length of less than 26 inches.
    431.3 Antique Firearm
    An antique firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) is any firearm manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica of such a firearm, that meets either of the following conditions:
    a. It is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.
    b. It uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, which is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available through ordinary commercial trade channels.
    431.4 Rifles and Shotguns
    A rifle is a shoulder weapon having a barrel that is 16 inches or more in length. A shotgun has a barrel of 18 inches or more in length. Rifles and shotguns have an overall length of 26 inches or greater and cannot be capable of being concealed on a person.
    431.5 Licensed Manufacturer/Licensed Dealer
    A manufacturer of firearms or a bona fide dealer in firearms is one duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), U.S. Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968.
    432 Mailability
    432.1 General
    The following conditions apply:
    a. Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable in the domestic mail except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0.
    b. The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0 or C024.2.0.
    c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.2.0.
    d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 431.2b and c.
    432.2 PS Form 1508
    PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, must be completed by each firearm manufacturer or dealer who deposits firearms for mailing. The form must be filed with the postmaster of the post office of mailing.
    Exhibit 432.1
    Mailability Requirements for Firearms
    Handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer or dealer, an authorized federal agent, or an authorized state, territory, or district agent ONLY when addressed to one of the following addressee categories for use in official duties:
    Addressee Affidavit Requirements
    a. Officer of Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, or organized reserve corps.
    b. Officer of National Guard or militia of a state, district, or territory.
    Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by commanding officer.
    c. Officer of the federal government or a state, district, or territory whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.
    d. USPS employees specifically authorized by the chief postal inspector.
    e. Officer or employee of a U.S. enforcement agency.
    Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by head of agency employing the addressee.
    f. Watchman engaged in guarding federal, state, district, or territory property.
    Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by chief clerk of department, bureau, or branch of government agency employing the addressee.
    g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of an agency employing officers and personnel included in c, d, or e above.
    Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by the head of agency stating the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee cited in c, d, or e of the opposite column.
    Unloaded Handgun
    Mailer must be licensed manufacturer or dealer mailing to another licensed manufacturer or dealer. Addressee is FBI (or it's director) or scientific lab or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers, or state, district, or territory officers authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment. Manufacturers or dealers must complete PS form 1508, Statement by Shipper of firearms, and file with postmaster.
    Postmasters may forward an unsatisfactory mailer statement to their RCSC for a ruling.
    Unloaded Rifle or Shotgun
    Short-barrelled rifles or shotguns that can be concealed on a person are nonmailable.
    Mailer must comply with Gun Control Act of 1968 and with the state and local laws. USPS may require mailer to open parcel or give written certification that weapon is unloaded and not concealable. Registered mail service is recommended.
    Unloaded Antique Firearm
    Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are acceptable for mailing.
    432.3 Packaging and Marking
    No markings of any kind that indicate the nature of the contents may be placed on the outside wrapper or container of any mailpiece containing firearms. Mailable matter must be properly and securely packaged within the general packaging requirements in DMM C010.
    433 Mailer Responsibility
    Even though certain types of firearms are permitted to be mailed within the provisions of the postal law in 18 U.S.C. 1715, it is the mailer's responsibility to comply with all federal and state regulations and local ordinances affecting the movement of firearms.
    434 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
    Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Mailers should be referred to the nearest regional ATF office for further advice. See 435 and Exhibit 435.
    435 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF)

  12. #12
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    NavyLT wrote:
    By the way, how did you "register" that guns to yourself? Neither Texas nor the federal government has firearms registration.
    Well maybe the term "registered" was wrong what I meant was that I am the original owner of these guns,so I can prove ownership, I thought that shipping ti FFL dealers only applied for the sale of the guns and not for moving them from one state to another to the Same owner. Since I was uncertain I posted my question

  13. #13
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    Oh I see, This answers my question fully since I left my guns a t my Parents house I was going to have him ship them to me but I guess I Have to go through an FFL dealer or go get them Myself.

  14. #14
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    Well thanks to all who replied and gave me answers all were very informative

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