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Thread: Need some help and guidance

  1. #1
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    Hey folks. I am fairly new to this forum and am going to start pushing for OC in Florida. Starting to get my ducks lined up so to speak.

    I thought it would be a good idea to do some basic research on the fully OC states. As I understand it those states are Nevada, Idaho, Montana,, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Kentucky, Virginia, and Alaska.

    As a beginning I would like to find out when each of these states fully restored the citizens rights to OC. From that I am going to start with the FBI crime stats and see if there is a valid logical argument showing a decline in major crimes.

    If anyone knows of where this information has already been put together that would be a major help. Otherwise any help pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    Reb

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    It's generally known, and often stated in the Virginia forum that OC has never been illegal in Virginia. No state law specifically allows it, but plenty of case law and opinion type statements from various government officials have confirmed that it is not illegal, so therefore, legal.

    TFred


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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    You might get more traction if you approach your effort with the discovery of why OC was originally prohibited in Florida.

    Many gun control laws have some trace of history in the effort to prevent post-Civil War freed slaves from having the means to defend themselves. Gun control in general has never been able to free itself of its racist origins.

    I don't know if this would help with Florida, but it may be a good start.

    TFred


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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    It's generally known, and often stated in the Virginia forum that OC has never been illegal in Virginia. No state law specifically allows it, but plenty of case law and opinion type statements from various government officials have confirmed that it is not illegal, so therefore, legal.

    TFred
    TFred -

    Not exactly true. There were several periods of time in Virginia, as in other states, when OC was prohibited. http://www.virginia1774.org/History4.htmlhas the history on the subject going all the way back to colonial times. It was only when our current constitution was writtten (almost completely overhauled in 1971 if I have the date correct from memory) that we get OC as a not-prohibited or restrictedmethod of carry.

    Rebel-Patriot -

    There is a school of thought that holds that pushing for OC (or CCW for that matter) ought to be based on logic and data showing that the specific method of carry poses no public harm. Florida has excellent data on how shall-issue CCW poses no harm and that those holding CCWs are generally among the most law-abiding citizens of the state. If you use that data, says another school of thought, you will only open the door for OC by permit as opposed to unrestricted OC.

    Have you networked with the folks in the Florida subforum? There seem to be folks there that have been working away on this issue for some time.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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  5. #5
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    skidmark wrote:
    Rebel-Patriot -

    There is a school of thought that holds that pushing for OC (or CCW for that matter) ought to be based on logic and data showing that the specific method of carry poses no public harm. Florida has excellent data on how shall-issue CCW poses no harm and that those holding CCWs are generally among the most law-abiding citizens of the state. If you use that data, says another school of thought, you will only open the door for OC by permit as opposed to unrestricted OC.

    Have you networked with the folks in the Florida subforum? There seem to be folks there that have been working away on this issue for some time.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    Skidmark,

    thanks for the info and thanks to everyone for their contributions. Every tidbit of info helps. Yes I have posted some messages in the Florida forum but it hasnt been too busy there the past few days. Hopefully that will change and will be able to network with others locally.

    As for the schools of thought, I guess my take is OC should not be restricted or licensed. Why pay for something that is my basic right in the first place guaranteed by the Constitution? It is all legal interpretation.

    Gutshot,

    wasnt trying to offend just looking for some info. Chill the all caps sometime. LOL.

    TFred,

    interesting approach. Will definitely give that some research time as well.

    Please keep the info coming guys. Appreciated.

    Reb



  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    It's generally known, and often stated in the Virginia forum that OC has never been illegal in Virginia. No state law specifically allows it, but plenty of case law and opinion type statements from various government officials have confirmed that it is not illegal, so therefore, legal.

    TFred
    TFred -

    Not exactly true. There were several periods of time in Virginia, as in other states, when OC was prohibited. http://www.virginia1774.org/History4.htmlhas the history on the subject going all the way back to colonial times. It was only when our current constitution was writtten (almost completely overhauled in 1971 if I have the date correct from memory) that we get OC as a not-prohibited or restrictedmethod of carry.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    Thanks for the corrected information. I'm pretty sure I've seen the "never been illegal" idea floating around on the Va forum before, have to keep an eye out for it.

    TFred


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    Don't forget Vermont.

    I'd concentrate my intellectual efforts on showing how open carry has not caused any increase in violence in each state. You could also look at states/cities that have become more restrictive and compare the trends in violence.

    Part of that approach would be to look for a state similar to Florida in terms of demographics that has open carry (Arizona maybe?) and compare the statistics. What are the difference between Florida and the OC-friendly state? Do those differences matter?

    The only problem with going by state is that sometimes you'll end up incorporating a lot of different regions into one big group. Take for example Kentucky. Louisville is a fairly dense metropolitan area. Compare that to Clay County which has fewer people and less wealth in the entire county than one city block in Louisville.

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    Right now, OC is legal in 44 states. Better than half of those states do not require any permit to do so.

    It would be hard to contribute a decrease in crime to OC alone, since carry mode isnever noted in crime statistics. However, it should be presented to whoever you lobby that it has been a rarety to hear of an OC'er using their weapon, while we are always hearing of a CC'er having to react to a crime. This would point to the "deterant factor" of OC.



  9. #9
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    You could bring that point up as well. 44 states allow OC in one manner or another. Do those 44 states have higher rates of violent crime than Florida? If not then OC alone cannot be concluded to contribute to violence.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Right now, OC is legal in 44 states. Better than half of those states do not require any permit to do so.

    It would be hard to contribute a decrease in crime to OC alone, since carry mode isnever noted in crime statistics. However, it should be presented to whoever you lobby that it has been a rarety to hear of an OC'er using their weapon, while we are always hearing of a CC'er having to react to a crime. This would point to the "deterant factor" of OC.

    Absolutely. In my mind, the purpose of going over statistics and looking to spot trends in decreased major crimes would point directly to the deterrent factor of OC.

    Honestly, I am struggling with the whole "OC by permit" in those states that require it. But that falls into my basic RKBA attitude. I dont like the idea of having to pay someone for a permit to something that is guaranteed to me in the constitution.

    I am in the process of building data to create educational documents and flyers and such. Have given myself a time limit and hope to have the things I need and a basic plan of attack built out no later than the end of the year.

    I am also searching news databases etc trying to locate anything that might be construed as negative about OC. Better to know what might be used against you than to get blindsided somewhere.

    A lot of work involved. I have a day a week to contribute to the effort right now and a couple hours here and there through the week.

    Please keep the info coming folks. Believe me, it is V E R Y appreciated.

    Reb



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