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Thread: Examiner.com: Arthur Frommer needs to get out more

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    Please CLICK, DIGG, and REDDIT:

    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...o-get-out-more

    SNIP

    Arthur Frommer needs to get out more
    This week Arizonans were shocked when iconic travel industry promoter Arthur Frommer blogged that

    "I will not personally travel in a state where civilians carry loaded weapons onto the sidewalks [and t]ourists should safeguard themselves by avoiding stays in Arizona."

    . . .

    And why pick on Arizona? After all, Arizona is just like most states where folks can legally open carry guns without any permit, and can carry concealed guns if they hold the proper permit.

    . . .


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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Time to switch to Fodor's! Mr. Fodor is deceased (1991), but was a WWII Army vet, who later worked for the OSS. Something tells me he is no Hoplophobe.

    TFred


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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Someone needs to update the Frommer's page on Wikipedia to document the outrage by the pro-2A crowd just like someone has updated the Whole Foods Market page to note the protests over their stance on Obamacare.

    Anybody here a wiki editor?

    TFred

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    What a doosh...y'know it really should be illegal for some people to open their mouths.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Dugg it....of course I normally do. I am surprised more folks on here are not. As John explained it helps it get exposure.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    From the looks of the guy in the photo, I don't think he ever leaves the house. I doubt he's been out in the sun light in years.

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    I went to Frommer's website and sent the link to the Open Carry Map for him to peruse and suggested that he go ahead and add all of those states to his list of places not to visit.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Another good Examiner article:

    http://www.examiner.com/x-17034-Chicago-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m8d26-Frommer-boycott-Phoenix-Arizona-Guns

    I wish we knew what Frommer is thinking these days.

    Once again, I recommend his competitor, Fodor's... I'm sure Mr. Fodor was not a liberal scardie-cat!

    Time to switch to Fodor's! Mr. Fodor is deceased (1991), but was a WWII Army vet, who later worked for the OSS. Something tells me he is no Hoplophobe.
    TFred


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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    And more... from the LA Times travel blog:

    http://travel.latimes.com/daily-deal...ers-boyc-5180/

    The Arizona Republic newspaper on Tuesday said, “Of course, if he were to stop traveling to states where people have guns, his next travel book would be 'Arthur Frommer’s Kitchen on $5 a Day'.”


    TFred


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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    And more... from the LA Times travel blog:
    Wiley Publishing, which publishes the guides, on Monday distanced itself from Frommer’s opinion. “We have a great deal of respect for our publishing partner, Arthur Frommer, who is not a Wiley employee,” the statement said. “Mr. Frommer’s posting does not represent an official point of view held by Wiley or the writers and editors who create the Frommer’s Travel Guides. As a company we remain neutral because we respect our rights as individuals to have varying opinions.
    “Wiley values the good citizens of Arizona, many of whom are our customers, authors, and partners.”


    and

    Scott Phelps, the director of communications for PhoenixMayor Phil Gordon, said in a phone interview Tuesday that the gunman was trying to attract media attention and that Frommer “took the bait.”

    “Phoenix is one of the safest cities in the country,” Phelps said. “In fact, the mayor just got back yesterday from D.C. where he was invited by the White House and the Justice Department to talk about best practices of the Phoenix police.

    “Phoenix police were being completely professional. . . . The guy was just trying to make a political point through a media stunt. He honestly didn’t break any laws. This was the police department protecting the safety of the community, which was never at risk. Again, there were a thousand people there expressing their opinions legally and lawfully and . . . one guy who wanted to get on TV and he did. Phoenix protected everyone’s rights.”



    Ole Frommer is being pushed out on a limb.

    He doesn't realize the strength of the 2A/carry constituencies....


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    HankT wrote:
    Ole Frommer is being pushed out on a limb.

    He doesn't realize the strength of the 2A/carry constituencies....
    I know I've said it before but it looks like someone pulled a Zumbo!
    R[ƎVO˩]UTION

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    HankT wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    And more... from the LA Times travel blog:
    Wiley Publishing, which publishes the guides, on Monday distanced itself from Frommer’s opinion. “We have a great deal of respect for our publishing partner, Arthur Frommer, who is not a Wiley employee,” the statement said. “Mr. Frommer’s posting does not represent an official point of view held by Wiley or the writers and editors who create the Frommer’s Travel Guides. As a company we remain neutral because we respect our rights as individuals to have varying opinions.
    “Wiley values the good citizens of Arizona, many of whom are our customers, authors, and partners.”


    and

    Scott Phelps, the director of communications for PhoenixMayor Phil Gordon, said in a phone interview Tuesday that the gunman was trying to attract media attention and that Frommer “took the bait.”

    “Phoenix is one of the safest cities in the country,” Phelps said. “In fact, the mayor just got back yesterday from D.C. where he was invited by the White House and the Justice Department to talk about best practices of the Phoenix police.

    “Phoenix police were being completely professional. . . . The guy was just trying to make a political point through a media stunt. He honestly didn’t break any laws. This was the police department protecting the safety of the community, which was never at risk. Again, there were a thousand people there expressing their opinions legally and lawfully and . . . one guy who wanted to get on TV and he did. Phoenix protected everyone’s rights.”

    Ole Frommer is being pushed out on a limb.

    He doesn't realize the strength of the 2A/carry constituencies....
    And the publisher is trying to keep everyone happy... I don't know about you, but I don't think someone who claims to be "neutral" on the Second Amendment is really neutral on the Second Amendment.

    "If you are not for us, then you are against us." I'm sure someone famous said that, and in the case of preserving rights that are under constant attack, there is no "neutral".

    TFred


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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    What does that crusty old geezer know about travel anyway? Not to insult those who are still active in the older age; but this guy clearly is not. Does he review wheelchairs? Scooter Rentals?

    He is irrelevant to his own industry. Why should anyone else listen, either?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    And more... from the LA Times travel blog:
    Wiley Publishing, which publishes the guides, on Monday distanced itself from Frommer’s opinion. “We have a great deal of respect for our publishing partner, Arthur Frommer, who is not a Wiley employee,” the statement said. “Mr. Frommer’s posting does not represent an official point of view held by Wiley or the writers and editors who create the Frommer’s Travel Guides. As a company we remain neutral because we respect our rights as individuals to have varying opinions.
    “Wiley values the good citizens of Arizona, many of whom are our customers, authors, and partners.”


    and

    Scott Phelps, the director of communications for PhoenixMayor Phil Gordon, said in a phone interview Tuesday that the gunman was trying to attract media attention and that Frommer “took the bait.”

    “Phoenix is one of the safest cities in the country,” Phelps said. “In fact, the mayor just got back yesterday from D.C. where he was invited by the White House and the Justice Department to talk about best practices of the Phoenix police.

    “Phoenix police were being completely professional. . . . The guy was just trying to make a political point through a media stunt. He honestly didn’t break any laws. This was the police department protecting the safety of the community, which was never at risk. Again, there were a thousand people there expressing their opinions legally and lawfully and . . . one guy who wanted to get on TV and he did. Phoenix protected everyone’s rights.”

    Ole Frommer is being pushed out on a limb.

    He doesn't realize the strength of the 2A/carry constituencies....
    And the publisher is trying to keep everyone happy... I don't know about you, but I don't think someone who claims to be "neutral" on the Second Amendment is really neutral on the Second Amendment.

    "If you are not for us, then you are against us." I'm sure someone famous said that, and in the case of preserving rights that are under constant attack, there is no "neutral".

    TFred
    Heh, solid point. The 2A is of such a nature that one cannot be neutral 'on it.' Absolutes are often relegated to the realm of imperialism, but in this case, it's just true. If you don't support it, you're fueling the fire against it. There is no middle ground.

    What good is a gun with no ammo?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Good grief, now they're whining like a baby.

    http://www.examiner.com/x-15231-Phoenix-Tourism-Examiner~y2009m8d26-Frommer-publishing-company-releases-statement

    Just as a boycott of travel to Arizona would financially hurt many people not the least bit involved in the incident to which Mr. Frommer so strongly objected, we must always remember that there are real people involved in the publishing of these books who were not involved in Mr. Frommer’s decision to make this statement
    Frommer still consults* on the guides which continue to be published under his name and also sells the books on his website.
    * I doubt he does this for free.

    If Mr. Frommer makes one penny from the sale of these books, I am not going to buy any of them until he makes a full apology. That's just me.

    TFred


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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    Good grief, now they're whining like a baby.

    http://www.examiner.com/x-15231-Phoenix-Tourism-Examiner~y2009m8d26-Frommer-publishing-company-releases-statement

    Just as a boycott of travel to Arizona would financially hurt many people not the least bit involved in the incident to which Mr. Frommer so strongly objected, we must always remember that there are real people involved in the publishing of these books who were not involved in Mr. Frommer’s decision to make this statement
    Frommer still consults* on the guides which continue to be published under his name and also sells the books on his website.
    * I doubt he does this for free.

    If Mr. Frommer makes one penny from the sale of these books, I am not going to buy any of them until he makes a full apology. That's just me.

    TFred
    I think he should have hired some consultants himself. Maybe someone would have told him to shut his damn yap. But, as everyone, he has the Right to open his maw and let spill forth idiocy and filth...

    Too bad I don't have the right to kick him in the crotch until he bleeds out his ears.... That would be fun.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    ixtow wrote:
    I think he should have hired some consultants himself. Maybe someone would have told him to shut his damn yap. But, as everyone, he has the Right to open his maw and let spill forth idiocy and filth...

    Too bad I don't have the right to kick him in the crotch until he bleeds out his ears.... That would be fun.
    Do you notice any irony in this quote between the third and fourth sentenc....ahh, never mind.



  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    I think he should have hired some consultants himself. Maybe someone would have told him to shut his damn yap. But, as everyone, he has the Right to open his maw and let spill forth idiocy and filth...

    Too bad I don't have the right to kick him in the crotch until he bleeds out his ears.... That would be fun.
    Do you notice any irony in this quote between the third and fourth sentenc....ahh, never mind.

    Of course I do. Read it again with your glasses on. I choose my words carefully.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    And the publisher is trying to keep everyone happy... I don't know about you, but I don't think someone who claims to be "neutral" on the Second Amendment is really neutral on the Second Amendment.

    "If you are not for us, then you are against us." I'm sure someone famous said that, and in the case of preserving rights that are under constant attack, there is no "neutral".
    I don't see a problem with the publisher's stance. Their claim of neutrality could just as easily be masking a zealous pro-gun view as an anti-gun view. And, if they are in fact anti-gun, one could choose to view their statement in a positive light because they would in effect be saying "we don't like guns but we respect that there are those who do."

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    tai4de2 wrote:
    And the publisher is trying to keep everyone happy... I don't know about you, but I don't think someone who claims to be "neutral" on the Second Amendment is really neutral on the Second Amendment.

    "If you are not for us, then you are against us." I'm sure someone famous said that, and in the case of preserving rights that are under constant attack, there is no "neutral".
    I don't see a problem with the publisher's stance. Their claim of neutrality could just as easily be masking a zealous pro-gun view as an anti-gun view. And, if they are in fact anti-gun, one could choose to view their statement in a positive light because they would in effect be saying "we don't like guns but we respect that there are those who do."
    I understand your thought, but I don't agree. Support for the Second Amendment is a civil rights issue. Do you think someone who takes a "neutral" stance on race discrimination is really being "neutral" on the matter?

    "We here at XYZ Widgets, Inc. do not have a position on racism, but we don't care if you do..." How do you think that would fly?

    TFred


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    What I find telling about the media and the gun issue is that, in singling out the rifle bearerout of all thearmed protestersin all protests in all the states, Mr. Frommer also singled out the only African-American I saw in any of these protests.

    Had this been any other issue he would have been taken to the woodshed for that alone. Funny how the gun issue makes it either OK or at least too uncomfortable for the media to touch.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    One of the more frequented 'tourist' areas in Arizona is Tombstone. People come from all over the world to mingle among (or participate in) openly carried guns. All sorts of 19th century guns, but guns nonetheless. Loaded guns.... not 'props'. Even the 'prop' guns are real... using blanks.

    Shotguns, Carbines, SAAWheelguns, Derringers'n cap 'n ball conversions.Usually one... often two...maybe eventhree 'real' guns carried openly at a time. (Not to mention some evil looking knives 'n a few swords) Nobody's threatened. Kids have a great time. Nobody goes screaming into the streets. The only 'shoot-outs' are staged. So... ya got some heavily armed people wanderin' about... Most have been drinkin' at least something 'adult' during the day and nothing happens. Where's Fromme been? This has been goin' on for a LONG time.

    Just off the top of my head... there's Founders Days, Wyatt Earp Days, Rendezvous of the Gunfighters, Helldorado, The Clanton Reunion'n prob'ly a few more' event' weekends. To get a motel room anywhere (including 20 miles away in Sierra Vista) you have to book 3-4 months in advance (or more). So... where's Fromme on all of this? I've made a Kodak moment for people from France, Germany, Denmark, Switzerland, Britain, Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Poland, Ukraine 'n the Czech Republic (thatI know of) more than once, plusabout every state. This is the 'West'... 'n people eat this stuff up. 'Know what i think? Fromme's a fraud. Anybody with a subscription to National Geographic 'n a Yellow pages phone book could run that kind'a travel scam.

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    ^^ Just imagine being called a 'noob' by this guy. ^^

    I still find that frikkin' hilarious.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    anybody seen that pesky rabbit
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    anybody seen that pesky rabbit
    Yep... kilt that lop-eared varmint with muh shootin'-arn.

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