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Thread: OC and CC questions

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    So I saw some where that Utah will accept a Maine OC permit for 18-20 yearolds, will Utah also accept a CC permit for an 18-20 yearold? Apparently that is the age in which you can gat a CCP in Maine. The only reason in which I would get a CCP is if I was told to CC by a LEO. I saw a post from someone else that they were told to CC by a sherffsomewhere and I just thought it would be a good idea to have both permits in case that happened to me. Also, I am looking for any and all websites that have Utah OC, CC, and general gun laws. If you know of any send me a link please.
    I was also wondering if OCers are allowed to use thigh rig holsters (this is probably a stupid question)? I've seen plenty of photos and vids of people who OC and all of them have hip holsters, is there some sort of restriction on thigh holsters that I don't know of or are we allowed to wear them?


    Thanks

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    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
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    tbeenysw wrote:
    So I saw some where that Utah will accept a Maine OC permit for 18-20 yearolds, will Utah also accept a CC permit for an 18-20 yearold? Apparently that is the age in which you can gat a CCP in Maine. The only reason in which I would get a CCP is if I was told to CC by a LEO. I saw a post from someone else that they were told to CC by a sherffsomewhere and I just thought it would be a good idea to have both permits in case that happened to me. Also, I am looking for any and all websites that have Utah OC, CC, and general gun laws. If you know of any send me a link please.
    I was also wondering if OCers are allowed to use thigh rig holsters (this is probably a stupid question)? I've seen plenty of photos and vids of people who OC and all of them have hip holsters, is there some sort of restriction on thigh holsters that I don't know of or are we allowed to wear them?


    Thanks
    If you read some of the responses to your other posts, you will see that some of the information you are requesting has already been provided. Also, you can wear any holster you want to. There are not technically any "OC" laws, rather a lack thereof and rightly so per this code:

    76-1-105. Common law crimes abolished.
    Common law crimes are abolished and no conduct is a crime unless made so by this code, other applicable statute or ordinance.

    Simply put, if something is not made illegal by statute, then it is not a crime. OC has been legal since this country was founded and has not been made illegal here in Utah and most of the other states in the union.

    If a LEO asked you to conceal, and you didn't have a permit, he would be asking you to break the law, so you might want to inform that about that little tid bit first.

    Kevin
    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

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    tbeenysw wrote:
    I was also wondering if OCers are allowed to use thigh rig holsters (this is probably a stupid question)? I've seen plenty of photos and vids of people who OC and all of them have hip holsters, is there some sort of restriction on thigh holsters that I don't know of or are we allowed to wear them?


    Thanks
    Welcome to OCDO brother.

    Most people tend to "not see" the hip holsters, which makes OCing a little easier. What they don't notice, they don't get alarmed over.

    A tactical holster draws eyes, making you the center of, perhaps, unwanted attention of citizens, police and possibly the bad guys.

    As an example, a friend of mine and I walked into a restaurant recently, I with a hip holster and he with a thigh holster. It was his first time carrying, so he was very aware of people's looks. He noticed I walked on by folks without getting more than a glance, but they zeroed in on him as he walked past.

    Your choice though, a holster is a holster and there's no prohibition against thigh holsters that I've ever heard of. Some folks do wear them. Though I have to wonder if it's really for the attention.

    Oh, and my friend is now looking for a hip holster. He didn't like the attention.
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

  4. #4
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    tbeenysw wrote:
    So I saw some where that Utah will accept a Maine OC permit for 18-20 yearolds, will Utah also accept a CC permit for an 18-20 yearold? Apparently that is the age in which you can gat a CCP in Maine.
    You are correct that Maine will issue non-resident permits, by mail, to anyone age 18 and older. Utah will recognize a permit issued by any state or county, regardless of their training requirements, or age standards.

    There are no "OC permits". Open carry is legal in Utah with or without a permit, but a permit does make it easier. Utah's permit is called a "Concealed Firearm Permit", but concealment is not required. I don't know what Maine has printed on their card, but I am sure it is not "open carry permit".
    :P

    tbeenysw wrote:
    The only reason in which I would get a CCP is if I was told to CC by a LEO. I saw a post from someone else that they were told to CC by a sherffsomewhere and I just thought it would be a good idea to have both permits in case that happened to me.
    Like others have said, there are no places in the State of Utah where you are required to conceal. If it is legal to carry a firearm somewhere in Utah, then it may be done openly or hidden. As I said earlier, there are no "open carry permits", so you don't need, and can't even obtain "both permits". One permit works for both.

    tbeenysw wrote:
    Also, I am looking for any and all websites that have Utah OC, CC, and general gun laws. If you know of any send me a link please.
    Most of Utah laws that regulate firearms possession are in the Utah Criminal Code. 76-10-500
    through 76-10-530 are the bread and butter of Utah gun laws, and there are a few more scattered throughout the Utah Code. Read through the the 500's until you think you understand them, and then read 'em again. :P Feel free to ask lots of questions, because it will get confusing real quick.

    tbeenysw wrote:

    I was also wondering if OCers are allowed to use thigh rig holsters (this is probably a stupid question)? I've seen plenty of photos and vids of people who OC and all of them have hip holsters, is there some sort of restriction on thigh holsters that I don't know of or are we allowed to wear them?

    You may carry a gun duct taped to your forehead if you wish. The State of Utah does not regulate how we carry them. I carried in a Blackhawk! thigh platform with SERPA for quite some time, and never really noticed anyone "freaking out". I sold it because I thought that it stuck out too far from my leg. Sometimes I would bang my GLOCK into doorframes and such. Nylon type thigh holsters will keep a pistol much closer to your leg.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    I don't know what Maine has printed on their card, but I am sure it is not "open carry permit". :P
    My Maine permit states "Non-Resident Permit to Carry Concealed Firearms" As it's been said there are no permits for open carry in Utah (Nor am I aware of an alternative permit in Maine)and having a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit is not a requirement to carry concealed. Just as my Mainepermit saying Firearms instead of Firearm does not mean I need to carry more than one gunfor the permit to be valid.

    As SGT Jensen noted the code can be confusing and right now until we loosen up the school zones definition a bit, it's very difficult to carry outside your vehicle without a permit.

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    Okay SGT. Jensen said I can get a permit from Maine (by mail). How would I go about doing that? Do I actually have to go to Maine?

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    No, you do not have to go to Maine, they will do it completely by mail.

    A Utah Concealed carry class will satisfy their training requirement.

    You can find more information here.

    http://www.maine.gov/dps/msp/license...s_permits.html

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    thx997303 wrote:
    No, you do not have to go to Maine, they will do it completely by mail.

    A Utah Concealed carry class will satisfy their training requirement.

    You can find more information here.

    http://www.maine.gov/dps/msp/license...s_permits.html
    Unless you are within a year of turning 21 years old and will be obtaining a Utah Concealed Firearm permit I would actually recommend against performing the full Utah training.

    While the Utah training will provide in depth discussion of Utah firearm laws and deadly force it is overkill for the Maine Permit.

    All the training you need to receive from Maine is a class on how to safely handle a firearm. Most beginner firearms classes tought by NRA Instructors will cover this and they are often more affordable then the full Utah CFP Class.

    Here is the relevant training statute:

    25 M.R.S.A. ยง 2003. Permits to carry concealed firearms
    (1)(E)(5) Demonstrates to the issuing authority a knowledge of handgun safety.

    The applicant may fully satisfy this requirement by submitting to the issuing

    authority, through documentation in accordance with this subparagraph, proof

    that the applicant has within 5 years prior to the date of application completed a

    course that included handgun safety offered by or under the supervision of a

    federal, state, county or municipal law enforcement agency or a firearms

    instructor certified by a private firearms association recognized as

    knowledgeable in matters of firearms safety by the issuing authority or by the

    state in which the course was taken. A course completion certificate or other

    document, or a photocopy, is sufficient if it recites or otherwise demonstrates that

    the course meets all of the requirements of this subparagraph.

    As an alternative way of fully satisfying this requirement, an applicant may

    personally demonstrate knowledge of handgun safety to an issuing authority, if

    the issuing authority is willing to evaluate an applicant's personal demonstration

    of such knowledge. The issuing authority is not required to offer this 2nd option.

    The demonstration of knowledge of handgun safety to the issuing authority

    may not be required of any applicant who holds a valid State permit to carry a

    concealed firearm as of April 15, 1990 or of any applicant who was or is in any

    of the Armed Forces of the United States and has received at least basic firearms

    training.

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    Alright, so if I recieved a Maine Concealed firearm permit, could I OC "Loaded" and CC "Loaded"all while being 18? Would it also make me exempt from having to unholster and secure my weapon while driving through a school zone?

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    tbeenysw wrote:
    Alright, so if I recieved a Maine Concealed firearm permit, could I OC "Loaded" and CC "Loaded"all while being 18? Would it also make me exempt from having to unholster and secure my weapon while driving through a school zone?

    With a Maine Permit you would be exempt from Utah's Weapons Laws just as if you had a Utah Concealed Firearms Permit. So yes you could carry Loaded as well as Concealed.

    Unfortunately you would still not be exempt from the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act.


    As has been said before the best thing to do is to read all the laws again and again until you understand exactly what they are saying. We can give you an interpretation but few, if any, of us are actually lawyers.

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    There I fixed it for you

    Nuttycomputer wrote:
    tbeenysw wrote:
    Alright, so if I recieved a Maine Concealed firearm permit, could I OC "Loaded" and CC "Loaded"all while being 18? Would it also make me exempt from having to unholster and secure my weapon while driving through a school zone?
    Unfortunately you might not be exempt from the unenforced and unconstitutional Federal Gun Free School Zone Act.

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    jaredbelch wrote:
    There I fixed it for you

    Nuttycomputer wrote:
    tbeenysw wrote:
    Alright, so if I recieved a Maine Concealed firearm permit, could I OC "Loaded" and CC "Loaded"all while being 18? Would it also make me exempt from having to unholster and secure my weapon while driving through a school zone?
    Unfortunately you might not be exempt from the unenforced and unconstitutional Federal Gun Free School Zone Act.
    No "might" about it. If your not licensed in the state your in, you are in violation. Having a permit from another state, even if honored in the state you happen to be in, does not grant exemption to the federal school zone law. State laws may vary.
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

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    turbodog wrote:
    No "might" about it. If your not licensed in the state your in, you are in violation. Having a permit from another state, even if honored in the state you happen to be in, does not grant exemption to the federal school zone law. State laws may vary.
    I think what Jared was leading to is the fact that there is no definition of what "licensed" means. According to the strict ATF it means you must have a Utah Permit, but what will a court of law see. Especially a federal court of law whose constitution has a full faith and credit clause.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    I think it's a moot point here. The FGFSZA has been found unconstitutional, and in the wake of Heller and Nordyke, I couldn't imagine the supreme court reversing that opinion.

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    thx997303 wrote:
    I think it's a moot point here. The FGFSZA has been found unconstitutional, and in the wake of Heller and Nordyke, I couldn't imagine the supreme court reversing that opinion.
    After it as declared unconstitutional, congress made a technical change and re-enacted it. It hasn't been tested in court since then.

  16. #16
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    What exactly was the technical change?

    I still can't imagine it would be declared constitutional after it was struck down.

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    thx997303 wrote:
    What exactly was the technical change?

    I still can't imagine it would be declared constitutional after it was struck down.
    They added a stipulation that the prosecution prove the firearm involved has affected or otherwise moved in interstate commerce. (Almost all firearms)

  18. #18
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Ha! Unconstitutional! Unenforcable!

    Crazy Gubbermints, It wont work.

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    bum[p

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