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Thread: Interesting Chat with LEO

  1. #1
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    I was shopping with my two girls at the Stop and Shop in Waterbury (the one by Target). I was CCing.

    The officer approached me to ask about my Jeep (he has the same model). We talked for a while about the vehicles, etc. I decided to ask him about OC.

    He immediately said, no, your not allowed to do that. I informed him (nicely) that state law does not disallow it, and that there is a growing number of folks who OC, and mentioned this website. We talked through some scenarios, and his basic take was that they would not arrest someone who was OCing with a permit, they would just ask them to cover it up. Through the discussion, he seemed genuinely interested in the topic, like he had never really had to work through this before. He informed me that in 9 years, he had never seen someone OCing (besides one random event involving a Fire Marshall).

    He promised me that he would go back and research it, which I thought was a good step.

    One more interesting fact from the conversation. He informed me that in the last 9 years, Waterbury has had around 80 homicides. Of those, 1 was done by someone with a valid carry permit, and that was a crime of passion.

    Good chat.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    Dwayne your conversation shows that some of the most important people in this state that need to be informed of state law is our LEO's.
    It is a shame that the general population needs to inform them of the LAW.

    Great start and we all need to spread the word that there is nothing to fear from a law abiding citizen OCing.
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
    Join Here: http://www.ccdl.us/membership

  3. #3
    Regular Member romma's Avatar
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    Educate the law, and the public at large... Good move dwayner!

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    Gee, I started up a conversation asking how he keeps his gun from getting
    tangled in the seat belt.
    He informed me it is his badge that is the problem with entanglements.
    I said I don't have one of those, it was at this time he saw the cross draw.
    Told him to have a nice day and drove off. So always fill car with holster
    towards car body. Gotta love an empty gas tank on police vehicles.

    Don't ask about laws, find common ground things to relate to.



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    Excellent to engage officers politiely in this converswation.

    I just had an encounter myself with an off-duty LEO...will post details in another thread.

    Carry On!

    Carry Open!!

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    The sad part is I had the documents in my wallet, and completely forgot about them.

    I really should have showed them, but that's the only think I wish I would have done differently.

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    The following email was received by me this morning, and I have redacted the senders name and email address.

    It appears that the Attorney General Richard Blumenthal or his staff areunable or unwilling to answer a simple question posed by a Connecticut Citizen.

    My suggestion would be that every reader of this post should cut and paste thesame question into an email and send it to Attorney.General@po.state.ct.us

    Here is the edited version of the email I received:

    -----Response from AG-----

    From: "Attorney General" <Attorney.General@po.state.ct.us
    Date: August 24, 2009 12:19:02 PM EDT
    To: "A CT Citizen" <email redacted
    Subject: RE: Carry of pistols and revolvers in the state of
    Connecticut

    Dear Mr. CITIZEN:

    Thank you for your e-mail I would suggest you contact the Department
    of Public Safety for information on pistol permits. They are the
    agency that regulates these matters. The Department is on-line at
    http://www.ct.gov/dps click on Special Licensing and Firearms.

    Sincerely,
    Richard Blumenthal
    ATTORNEY GENERAL


    -----Original Message-----


    From: A CT Citizen [email redacted]
    Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 8:13 PM
    To: Attorney General
    Subject: Carry of pistols and revolvers in the state of Connecticut

    Attorney General Blumenthal,

    As a holder of a CT permit to carry a pistol or revolver, am I within
    my rights to carry a pistol or revolver in public openly (without
    being concealed) in the state of CT?
    If I am not, would you be so kind as to cite the specific statute that
    prohibits me from doing so?


    Thank you for your time and attention.

    A CT Citizen
    Lyme, CT
    Email redacted






  8. #8
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    What is DPS's official line concerning open carry these days?

    is it still: "ask a lawyer" ??

  9. #9
    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    Ed I just clicked the link to the attorney general and with a couple of copy and pastes from the email posted, and also changing the town at the bottom, I sent off the email!!!

    Lenny
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
    Join Here: http://www.ccdl.us/membership

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    This is the edited response I have sent to the individuals who provided me with the email to the AG.



    CT Citizenand CT Citizen,



    Thank you for the copy of your email correspondence with the Attorney General, I have redacted your name and email and posted it on http://www.opencarry.com.

    I have taken the liberty to copy this email to Sgt. Douglas Hall who is the Executive Officer in the Firearms Unit so that he is aware of your inquiry.

    I’m sure that if Sgt. Hall finds any incorrect statements in this email, he will notify one or both of us as soon as possible.[/b]

    I suggest that you follow the recommendations of the AG and submit a formal request to the Firearms unit on the topic of open carry.

    It might be wise to make your request and state that you are asking for a "DECLARATORY RULING[/b]".

    Should you have any additional questions or need of my assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me via email or phone 860-978-5455.

    As a current NRA Instructor[/b] and Instructor and author of an approved course of instruction by the Commissioner of Public Safety, I feel safe in telling you that there are currently no criminal, civil or administrative penalties[/b] for carrying your pistol or revolver openly in a responsible manner[/b].

    I do not, (and would not), recommend carrying your weapon in a manner that could be considered as a threat to another.

    There are cases where individuals chose to openly carry their weapon in their hand rather than in a holster and found themselves having to justify their actions.

    I’m sure that simply carrying your weapon in a secured holster without any other factors is NOT[/b] prohibited by law or regulation in CT.

    My opinions and beliefs as a recognized instructor cannot and may not prevent an unknowledgeable member of law enforcement from taking some type of incorrect action.

    Hopefully the state will realize that not providing timely factual answers to individuals who are permitted to carry firearms is a very serious matter.


    MAY I SUGGEST THAT YOU VIST http://WWW.CCDL.US, JOIN THE ORANIZATION AND MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THEIR ORGANIZATION.


    Respecfully,

    Edward A. Peruta

    State Approved Pistol Instructor




  11. #11
    Regular Member romma's Avatar
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    Yes, they certainly like to play hot potato...

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    I mailed this to him:

    Dear Attorney General Blumenthal,
    As you are probably well aware now there has been a bone of contention between those of us who are allowed to carry a pistol in the state of Connecticut with a permit and the DPS who seem unwilling to publicly state (and thus be binding on the various police departments and the CSP) that the lawful carry of a pistol or revolver is not required to be concealed.
    As you are probably aware the CT statutes are mute on the carry requirements only that one has to carry the permit whilst exercising the right to carry. I am not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure that the way statutes are written is that anything not legally forbidden is allowed. Laws don't allow legal conduct they prohibit illegal conduct.
    That being said and since DPS seems unable or unwilling to render an opinion I think it would be beneficial for you, the states highest legal guardian, to issue an opinion which would clear this issue once and for all and one which could be referred to as a definitive opinion if there is any question between lawful carriers and various law enforcement departments.
    It is my opinion is that the law is the law regardless of the opinions of those who would be called upon to enforce it. At the moment it is a matter of chance when dealing with individual police officers how they "see" the law. An opinion from yourself which could be incorporated into the police academy training syllabus would nip these issues from the start.

    As a Stratford resident I appreciate you taking the time to visit with us on our holidays and participate in the parades. I always try and give a shout out to you as I believe you to be a straight "shooter" if you'll pardon the pun and have the best interests of the states citizens first and foremost in your mind.
    Thanks in advance for your attention to this matter
    Sincerely yours
    etc

  13. #13
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    well written Goldcoaster!

    I'm working on my version.

  14. #14
    Regular Member romma's Avatar
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    Excellent letter Gcoaster!! I will cook one up as soon as I can breathe here at work.

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    Just sent:

    Attorney General Blumenthal,

    I understand you have received some emails today in regard to Open Carry issues. As a Waterbury resident, I recently asked a local law enforcement officer about open carry. He informed me that we are "not allowed" to carry firearms openly. When I kindly informed him of the law's silence toward open vs. concealed, he seemed surprised. He promised me he would research it. This is an area where many of our state's finest law enforcement officers are simply unfamiliar. They rely on their own judgement as opposed to the law simple because the no one in the DPS is willing to actually make a statement toward open carry being legal.

    Please add my list of names to the folks asking you to help clarify the law in this matter and have the DPS issue a clear statement toward the legal carry of firearms openly.

    Thank you for your time,

    dwayner79


    Edit to add: Should have proofread a little better... woops.

  16. #16
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    I don't think a spelling mistake would render the entire communication void. I have a feeling with a few more of these in his inbox his email admin will start to see that perhaps the one-off cursory non-answer won't do and may actually put them in front of Richard himself so he can render an opinion.

    He's as much of a politician as he is a lawyer so I don't expect to see an edict come down from on high stating that "Open carry of firearms as long as they are accompanied by a valid CT Pistol permit is lawful and not grounds for a heavyhanded approach from law enforcement" but hopefully he does the "right" thing for us.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    Sooner or later they will have to make a decision on how to answer the public on this subject.

    Or they can also try to pass the law that concealed carry is the law of the state. They did try it before!!! They will certainly try it again!!!!!
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
    Join Here: http://www.ccdl.us/membership

  18. #18
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    SUBJ: Clarification requested on law

    Dear Attorney General Blumenthal:

    I am a CT resident and I regularly carry a pistol with a state issued permit to do so. For the last few weeks I have been carrying my pistol openly in a secured retention holster around town, shopping etc.

    Yesterday I was confronted by someone who claimed to be an off-duty police officer. She rudely and arrogantly told me that what I was doing was illegal. I politely informed her that there was no such law in Connecticut that mandated concealment so long as the person has a valid State Permit to Carry.

    Many people seem to believe concealment is mandatory in CT. I believesome firearm instructors and law enforcement officers are teaching and/or enforcinglaws that do not exist.

    To the best of my knowledge, the Department of Public Safety has failed to answer all inquires regarding the open carry of firearms. I wish to request clarification on this issue.

    Very Respectfully,



    ME

    Ledyard, Connecticut

    (xxx) xxx-xxxx

  19. #19
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    Well thats most of the CCDL sent emails and the balance will be sent soon I bet.

  20. #20
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    I will sending over an email shortly to him as well..



    Dear Attorney General Blumenthal,

    I am a resident of the State of Connecticut with a valid permit to carry pistols and revolvers. I urge you to issue some form of statement that openly carrying a handgun in a secured holster is not a violation of Connecticut law. The law is silent on concealment but a lot of citizens and law enforcement are unaware of this. This makes for much confusion on this issue and you have the power to end it. Thank you for your time and service to the people of Connecticut and have a great day.



  21. #21
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    dwayner79, +1 very good educational conversation for you and the LEO.


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    I attended a subcommittee meeting of the Board of Firearms Permit Examiners today and learned that Sgt. Hall forwarded this email up the chain of command.

    Sgt. Hall acknowledged that he had recieved it, and had every oppurtunity to correct any statements made and did not.

    We'll see where these emails take us, it could be interesting.

    Edward Peruta wrote:
    This is the edited response I have sent to the individuals who provided me with the email to the AG.



    CT Citizenand CT Citizen,



    Thank you for the copy of your email correspondence with the Attorney General, I have redacted your name and email and posted it on http://www.opencarry.com.

    I have taken the liberty to copy this email to Sgt. Douglas Hall who is the Executive Officer in the Firearms Unit so that he is aware of your inquiry.

    I’m sure that if Sgt. Hall finds any incorrect statements in this email, he will notify one or both of us as soon as possible.[/b]

    I suggest that you follow the recommendations of the AG and submit a formal request to the Firearms unit on the topic of open carry.

    It might be wise to make your request and state that you are asking for a "DECLARATORY RULING[/b]".

    Should you have any additional questions or need of my assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me via email or phone 860-978-5455.

    As a current NRA Instructor[/b] and Instructor and author of an approved course of instruction by the Commissioner of Public Safety, I feel safe in telling you that there are currently no criminal, civil or administrative penalties[/b] for carrying your pistol or revolver openly in a responsible manner[/b].

    I do not, (and would not), recommend carrying your weapon in a manner that could be considered as a threat to another.

    There are cases where individuals chose to openly carry their weapon in their hand rather than in a holster and found themselves having to justify their actions.

    I’m sure that simply carrying your weapon in a secured holster without any other factors is NOT[/b] prohibited by law or regulation in CT.

    My opinions and beliefs as a recognized instructor cannot and may not prevent an unknowledgeable member of law enforcement from taking some type of incorrect action.

    Hopefully the state will realize that not providing timely factual answers to individuals who are permitted to carry firearms is a very serious matter.


    MAY I SUGGEST THAT YOU VIST http://WWW.CCDL.US, JOIN THE ORANIZATION AND MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THEIR ORGANIZATION.


    Respecfully,

    Edward A. Peruta

    State Approved Pistol Instructor



  23. #23
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    Definitely some interesting times ahead. What is the average turnaround from an email to the AG for his aides to read it and respond I wonder? I doubt that Mr Blumenthal reads his own email himself.

    I'll respond to this thread if/when I hear something and assume others will do the same.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Douglas in CT's Avatar
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    Hi Ed,
    Just sent this off.

    Learn 2 Shoot, LLC
    Where Safety is No Accident
    203-494-6312

    August 26, 2009

    Subject: The carry of pistols and revolvers in the state of Connecticut

    Attorney General Blumenthal,


    By way of introduction, I own Learn 2 Shoot, LLC. - a company that conducts National Rifle Association (NRA) courses in Connecticut. I am an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor and teach the NRA Basic Pistol, NRA Basic Rifle, NRA Basic Shotgun and NRA Basic Muzzle Loading Rifle courses. I am also a holder of a CT Permit to Carry a Pistol or Revolver (“CT Permit Holder”).

    As part of the NRA Basic Pistol course, I cover the basics of state and federal firearms laws. There is one question keeps coming up in my courses regarding Connecticut law/statutes.

    That question is:
    Is a holder of a “CT Permit Holder” withinhis rights to carry a pistol or revolver in public openly (withoutbeing concealed) in the state of CT?

    If a “CT Permit Holder” is not within his rights to do this, would you be so kind as to cite the specific statute thatprohibits from doing so?

    Thank you for your time and attention to this request.

    Respectfully yours,
    Douglas
    Chief Instructor


  25. #25
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    I got my response today... I was hoping our AG would take a bold step and put his foot down but no, he says he can't because he wasn't asked to. I thought I had asked him to but apparently he needs the DPS to ask him. I'm a bit disappointed with it but not altogether surprised.

    -----------------------------------

    Reply from Attorney General Richard Blumenthal

    Dear Mr. Goldcoaster:


    I appreciated your letter and I understand your concern with the
    position of the Department of Public Safety on this issue. As you may
    know, the question of whether permitted gun owners must carry the
    firearm in a concealed manner is currently in litigation. While the
    statute doesn't explicitly prohibit the open carrying of a weapon, the
    Department of Public Safety feels that publicly carrying a weapon may
    implicate criminal statutes in certain circumstances. The Office of the
    Attorney General does not enforce those statutes.

    Further, whether or not the Department believes that the current
    law requires the concealed carrying of such weapon, our office has not
    provided any legal advice on that matter as we have not been asked by
    the Department to answer such a question. Given the concerns of the
    Department -- which certainly seem legitimate -- the best answer may be
    to obtain a legislative clarification on how permitted gun owners must
    carry their firearms.

    I regret that I cannot directly resolve this issue.

    Many thanks, and warmest regards.

    Sincerely,

    RICHARD BLUMENTHAL

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