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Thread: State parks; pending legislation?

  1. #1
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    Is there any pending legislation to correct the State park problem? Considering how few places are generally off-limits, it is hard to understand why it is unlawful to carry while hiking and camping in the woods where no one is going to come to your immediate aid.

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    Alabama's state parks are managed by the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. You can find their rules for state parks here:

    http://www.alapark.com/parks/pdfs/Ru...egulations.pdf

    For the rule affecting possession of firearms, see item no. 8 entitled:

    8. Prohibited Devices (220-5-.08)

    If a change in the rule was pending, it should have been published in the

    Alabama Administrative Monthly. I looked at the issues for Jan-July of this

    year, but didn't see 220-5-.08 listed. There is a proposed change for possession

    of firearms on wildlife mangement areas however. This paragraph has been

    added to the rules for those areas:


    (ff) Nothing in this regulation prohibits or requires a wildlife management area permit for the possession of handguns by lawfully licensed persons for personal protection, provided the handguns are not used to hunt or take or to attempt to take wildlife except as otherwise provided by this regulation.



    [page 15 of the DCNR publication at this link:]

    http://www.outdooralabama.com/huntin...schedfinal.pdf



    The Alabama Administrative Monthly is here:

    http://www.alabamaadministrativecode...s/monthly.html



    BTW: The Code of Alabama 1975 includes this statute:

    Section 9-11-304
    Carrying or possession of firearms.
    The carrying or possession of firearms within any wildlife management area, except while in possession of a valid permit allowing this privilege, is prohibited; provided, that the provisions of this section shall not apply to any authorized law enforcement officer nor to any officer of the United States forest service, the United States Bureau of Biological Survey, or of the Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural Resources while in the pursuit of his official duty.

    (Acts 1939, No. 668, p. 1061, §5; Code 1940, T. 8, §110(5).)



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    Currently there are over 40 law enforcement officers working in Alabama State Parks. A high majority of these officers live on the park where they work, and are on site during hours of operation at these parks. At the larger parks, officers are constantly confiscating wepons from those who have been arested for crimes ranging from DUI to Domestic Violence and drug possession. While most law abiding, permit holding members of the public do not pose an immediate threat to these officers and others, sometimes people crack, and if they do so while armed with a handgun, the situation could become very messy very quickly. Another reason for the ban on firearms is the fact that all state parks are designated as game sanctuaries, and many people are arrested for poaching game each year from the parks. And that is while firearms are prohibited. Imagine if we were to allow folks to legally carry weapons into the parks. How many more animals would be illegally harvested if that were the case? Sure, the offender would likely be found and arrested, but that does not bring back the natural resource that they have taken. As to camping in remote areas of the parks, camping is only allowed in designated camping areas, and very few parks have wilderness camping available. There are no areas in the parks where a person armed only with a cell phone could not be found within a very short period of time.

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    ASP Ranger wrote:
    Currently there are over 40 law enforcement officers working in Alabama State Parks. A
    Another reason for the ban on firearms is the fact that all state parks are designated as game sanctuaries, and many people are arrested for poaching game each year from the parks.
    And that is while firearms are prohibited. Imagine if we were to allow folks to legally carry weapons into the parks. How many more animals would be illegally harvested if that were the case? Sure, the offender would likely be found and arrested, but that does not bring back the natural resource that they have taken. As to camping in remote areas of the parks, camping is only allowed in designated camping areas, and very few parks have wilderness camping available. There are no areas in the parks where a person armed only with a cell phone could not be found within a very short period of time.

    Typical liberal response. Lets all give up our constitutional rights becasue of the animals its for the animals people cmon...haha

    So AL has 40 law enforcement officers all accross the state just waiting to help just a phone call away? Too bad 40 is a pretty small number, and any violence against me likley would have occurred before they go there.

    And do you even know what you're talking about? Last time I was in Alabama and stayed a state park there was a big hunt going on the next day so we were advised not to hike on the trails. Some game sactuary.

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ASP Ranger wrote:
    Currently there are over 40 law enforcement officers working in Alabama State Parks. A high majority of these officers live on the park where they work, and are on site during hours of operation at these parks. At the larger parks, officers are constantly confiscating wepons from those who have been arested for crimes ranging from DUI to Domestic Violence and drug possession. While most law abiding, permit holding members of the public do not pose an immediate threat to these officers and others, sometimes people crack, and if they do so while armed with a handgun, the situation could become very messy very quickly. Another reason for the ban on firearms is the fact that all state parks are designated as game sanctuaries, and many people are arrested for poaching game each year from the parks. And that is while firearms are prohibited. Imagine if we were to allow folks to legally carry weapons into the parks. How many more animals would be illegally harvested if that were the case? Sure, the offender would likely be found and arrested, but that does not bring back the natural resource that they have taken. As to camping in remote areas of the parks, camping is only allowed in designated camping areas, and very few parks have wilderness camping available. There are no areas in the parks where a person armed only with a cell phone could not be found within a very short period of time.
    Love it when I hear/see the same old. tired, empty arguments thrown out - it provides a little levity in an otherwise somber world.

    Let' see where to begin? Well for starters, the states that have allowed legally responsible citizens to carry in their parks have NONE of the problems you mention. Not with poaching, not with attacks on officers, none of the above.

    Do you think that the good citizens of Alabama are less trustworthy, less good and decent people than the residents of these other states? Do you really believe that they are law abiding citizens until they cross the entrance line to the parks - then they become bad, dangerous and should not be permitted to do what they do other places - enjoy the RIGHT to defend themselves.

    Then the simple answer to the cell phone dilemma is time. Seconds versus minutes, lots of them. Want to bet your life on a cell phone? What is really interesting is that when the officers respond, what will they have that brings you comfort? The answer is guns. So the bottom line is you wish to add time, considerable time to the equation at the expense of the people.

    BTW - Mr. Not-Soon-Enough Ranger did you know that they average permit holder commits less violent crime and shoots more accurately than the average LEO? Nah, I'm not going to cite either - let that be your homework.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
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    All Alabama Park Rangers took an oath to defend this before assuming their duties:

    Contitution of Alabama 1901

    Declaration of Rights

    SECTION 26

    Right to bear arms.
    That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.


    SECTION 36

    Construction of Declaration of Rights.
    That this enumeration of certain rights shall not impair or deny others retained by the people; and, to guard against any encroachments on the rights herein retained, we declare that everything in this Declaration of Rights is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate.
    You can make up all the reasons to violate those rightsyou want to, but none of them are valid until the people say they are valid.

    Honor your oath. Your authority comes only from the people, not from the government.








  7. #7
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    This is also ignoring the fact that you can already carry in national forests, and soon national parks (feb of next year iirc).

  8. #8
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    Not to mention that in many parks, there is little to (often) NO cell phone coverage.

    AFM


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    I found a notice of a pending change in the Alabama Administrative Monthly.

    You have until Dec. 7 to voice your opinion on the matter. Details here:



    http://www.alabamaadministrativecode.../220-5-.08.pdf

  10. #10
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    49er wrote:
    I found a notice of a pending change in the Alabama Administrative Monthly.

    You have until Dec. 7 to voice your opinion on the matter.* Details here:

    *

    http://www.alabamaadministrativecode.../220-5-.08.pdf
    The PDF is a single scanned page. The summary is.

    "To further provide for and regulate the possession of certain firearms at the state parks."

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    what ever became of this?

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