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Thread: general rule of thumb for home self defense?

  1. #1
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    ive read a lot of topics on here about it, and from what I've gathered, the only way you are justifiably able to use lethal force is if you are directly protecting your life, or someone elses life in your presence.

    that brings me to the question of, how do you know if an intruder is going to be a threat to your life or not? He could be anything from some punk teenager trying to steal things so he can sell for his fix, who wouldn't even think about hurting someone, or he could be some deranged psychopath who won't hesitate to kill the first person who tries to stop him. By the time you "assess the situation" it could already be too late.

    i know this topic has been done a lot, but what is *your* general idea for justifiable homicide in a home invasion situation?

    Would you immediately start firing at someone after you see them in your house?

    Would you draw on them and yell for them to leave/get on the ground?

    Would you try to identify them first, and then draw/fire depending on their actions after that?

    I surely couldn't imagine that homicide is only justifiable if the intruder is armed, considering it's very logical he could be concealing a weapon during his invasion..

    also, what are the laws on personal protection dogs in your own home? what if someone breaks in your house, and is attacked first?

    just curious what some of your ideas are

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    RCW 9A.16.050

    Justifiable Homicide

    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.

    My interpretation is that homicide is justifiable, when there is reasonable ground to assume that the person slain was going to commit a felony, or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or any person in the slayers presence. Number 2 pretty much justifies homicide in the circumstances of using deadly force on someone who is committing a felony in the slayers place of dwelling, or place of abode in which he is.


    RCW 16.08.100 section C:

    3) The owner of any dog that aggressively attacks and causes severe injury or death of any human, whether or not the dog has previously been declared potentially dangerous or dangerous, shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a class C felony punishable in accordance with RCW 9A.20.021. It is an affirmative defense that the defendant must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the human severely injured or killed by the defendant's dog: (a) Trespassed on the defendant's real or personal property which was enclosed by fencing suitable to prevent the entry of young children and designed to prevent the dog from escaping and marked with clearly visible signs warning people, including children, not to trespass and to beware of dog; or (b) provoked the defendant's dog without justification or excuse on the defendant's real or personal property which was enclosed by fencing suitable to prevent the entry of young children and designed to prevent the dog from escaping and marked with clearly visible signs warning people, including children, not to trespass and to beware of dog. In such a prosecution, the state has the burden of showing that the owner of the dog either knew or should have known that the dog was potentially dangerous as defined in this chapter. The state may not meet its burden of proof that the owner should have known the dog was potentially dangerous solely by showing the dog to be a particular breed or breeds. In addition, the dog shall be immediately confiscated by an animal control authority, quarantined, and upon conviction of the owner destroyed in an expeditious and humane manner.



    Here is an email I received from the King County Prosecutor's Office

    Thank you for contacting the King County Prosecutor's Office regarding the defense of your home from a burglar and the justifiable homicide statute. We appreciate hearing from you on this important topic.
    Washington State lawclearly gives a homeowner the right to use all necessary force to repel the invasion of their home.Our office has not charged a homeowner for using force against a burglarin the past.
    However, every case must be reviewed on its own facts for whether the use of force was reasonable and necessary before we apply the justifiable homicide statute. We oftenencounter cases where the level offorce used in response to the level of threat posed is unreasonable and unnecessary. Wewould review every use of force caseindependently.
    I hope this information has been helpful.
    Sincerely,
    Ian Goodhew
    King County Prosecutor's Office


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    Me personaly, I will always draw first, then yell. I dont care if you are armed or not. I dont care what your age is. I grew up in houston and Ive seen 10 year old kids with guns. The offenders actions decide if I squeeze the trigger.

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    One reason I have hands free night vision goggles is so that I can identify the person I am shooting without warning is in fact someone I do not know.

    If you're in my home at night and my family is asleep. I will shoot you without warning. I won't say a word, I will justshoot you in the head. The reason why I say that is that I do not want a gun fight where an innocent can be hurt or killed, I do not want a stand off where I could potentially be shot and killed, and I do not want you getting away only to come back with more firepower or when I am not home, but my wife and daughter are. If you are in my home at night and you have not been invited, your intentions are not good.


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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    One reason I have hands free night vision goggles is so that I can identify the person I am shooting without warning is in fact someone I do not know.

    If you're in my home at night and my family is asleep. I will shoot you without warning. I won't say a word, I will justshoot you in the head. The reason why I say that is that I do not want a gun fight where an innocent can be hurt or killed, I do not want a stand off where I could potentially be shot and killed, and I do not want you getting away only to come back with more firepower or when I am not home, but my wife and daughter are. If you are in my home at night and you have not been invited, your intentions are not good.

    Entirely reasonable.

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    If a stranger was in my home, i would definitely shoot after a very fast 100% ID. I definitely would not want them returning to do a drive-by, or with friends to get revenge, or anything that would get my family hurt. I say end it, here now and fast, ensure there are not others in the house, and that all threat has been eliminated.

    -I cannot stress enough the importance of "100%Target ID"and situational awareness on something of this nature.


    Home invasion is the worst most heinous crime.



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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    Batousaii wrote:
    If a stranger was in my home, i would definitely shoot after a very fast 100% ID. I definitely would not want them returning to do a drive-by, or with friends to get revenge, or anything that would get my family hurt. I say end it, here now and fast, ensure there are not others in the house, and that all threat has been eliminated.

    -I cannot stress enough the importance of "100%Target ID"and situational awareness on something of this nature.


    Home invasion is the worst most heinous crime.


    I'm actually thinking of creating a remote controlbutton (much like a garage door opener) which will disable all lights in the house and then activate strobe lights to flash once every45 to 65seconds. The beauty of this is that an intruder will be blinded and not have enough time for their sight to recover before the next flash occurs. What's more is that my night vision goggles have a bright light protection circuit so I won't be affected by the flashes of light.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    I'm actually thinking of creating a remote controlbutton (much like a garage door opener) which will disable all lights in the house and then activate strobe lights to flash once every45 to 65seconds. The beauty of this is that an intruder will be blinded and not have enough time for their sight to recover before the next flash occurs. What's more is that my night vision goggles have a bright light protection circuit so I won't be affected by the flashes of light.
    I'm thinking of investing in an LPWS (variant of theCIWS) for perimeter security. They're so good they can track seagulls in port if you leave the search radar on.

    [flash=320,256]http://www.youtube.com/v/cgpQBZF2sZQ&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0[/flash]

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    shad0wfax wrote:
    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    I'm actually thinking of creating a remote controlbutton (much like a garage door opener) which will disable all lights in the house and then activate strobe lights to flash once every45 to 65seconds. The beauty of this is that an intruder will be blinded and not have enough time for their sight to recover before the next flash occurs. What's more is that my night vision goggles have a bright light protection circuit so I won't be affected by the flashes of light.
    I'm thinking of investing in an LPWS (variant of theCIWS) for perimeter security. They're so good they can track seagulls in port if you leave the search radar on.
    That gun could make quail hunting interesting.
    WTT: Glock 27 for Glock 26

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Good Home Security practices go a long way to preventing such an encounter. Good locks on substantial doors. Security devices on windows such as anti-intrusion bars on ground level windows.

    How many times are people surprised by an intruder merely because they left a window wide open or didn't even lock their front door.

    If someone has to pry or bash their way into your home while you are sleeping two things happen. First, you get some warning. Second, you now have proof for the investigators and prosecutor that the "guest" had less than friendly intent should you end up shooting them.



    Washington_for_Liberty---

    your post is definitely what I would expect for someont that takes their AR-15 swimming with them. I'm sure that there are a lot more here that keep "hands-free" night vision devices handy too.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    amlevin wrote:
    Good Home Security practices go a long way to preventing such an encounter. Good locks on substantial doors.
    +1. All doors and windows locked before sleep every night. After that, if you enter the house of your own power... Well you won't be leaving that way.

  12. #12
    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    badger54 wrote
    That gun could make quail hunting interesting.
    I bet it'd be effective on our southern border too; it would stop both kinds of coyotes!

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    Since you asked for a general rule and not a specific case, here is my opinion.

    1. If it has a weapon in its hand, shoot even in the back if necessary. You will never make it if you "shout out" and it turns to give you a snap shot. Your children are behind you, don't screw it up and get them killed by being nice or unsure. Using toy guns, try it with your kids, it will make you blood run cold how little time you have between shouting "freeze" and the kids incoming round.

    2. If no weapon, you can decide to take it at gun point, but if it draws, you have about second to half a second. Good luck dude.

    3. If its hands are full (your TV, Computer, Stereo, etc) it would be hard to argue that you didn't just gun him down. Watch hand to the waist movement.

    Never close to hand to hand distance.

  14. #14
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    As everyone else has stated if someone breaks into your place you can use whatever means you have to stop the threat.

    For me if someone breaks into my apartment I would generally shoot without any warning what so ever. I may use my flashlight to blind them if I feel I dont have enough light to make the shot. As for identifying my target first, I dont really go for it as bad as it sound. No one I know has a reason to come to my place at night and they would never try to gain access to my place with out me letting them in. They know how I react to a "bump in night". Far as I see it "better safe than sorry" that second you used to identify your target could be your last.

    As for checking to see if they had something in their hands like a tv, I never thought about that. Definately something to think about.

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