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LVMPD mandatory training on OC

bobernet

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Las Vegas Metro PD has just rolled out a new mandatory training program for all POST officers (both regular metro and corrections). The training must be completed by November 1 for commissioned employees below the rank of Deputy Chief. The training is an elective for all other employees (administrative, dispatch, etc).

The purpose of the training is to familiarize officers with Nevada law regarding the legality of open carry, and to clarify the department's policy on the proper response to citizens exercising their second amendment rights.

I've reviewed the training material and scenarios, and feel that it is a fair and balanced view of the law.

The training gives officers 3 "what-if" scenarios to review, and highlights what is and is not reasonable articulable suspicion to perform a Terry stop. At more than one point, the training stresses that the open carry of a gun - in and of itself - is NOT cause for anything other than a consensual encounter.

It makes the point that random "registration" checks are not allowed, and that any articulable suspicion must be based on the totality of the circumstances. If the firearm is all you have, you don't have anything.

The three scenarios are:

Man with a gun call on the strip at night. (There are other factors besides the gun. Gang dress/paraphernalia, potential under-age drinking, perhaps "known" to the officer to be a prior felon, etc.)

Man with a gun call, walking his dog - walks through a resident's back yard. (Gun alone is not RAS, but wearing a stocking cap in hot weather, may have trespassed on the caller's property, etc may provide RAS for issues other than the firearm.)

Group with guns on Fremont Street Experience. This is a nearly textbook example of an OCDO gathering. It describes a group of people from 35-60yo, open carrying, but not engaging in any other suspicious or potentially illegal behavior.

In all three scenarios, the training discusses what peripheral issues may or may not create RAS/PC for a detention, but it continues to stress that the presence of an openly-carried firearm is not RAS alone.

It makes mention of groups potentially "baiting" the officers to see how they will respond. It specifically deals with civil rights violations. It also makes the point that criminals do not normally carry weapons openly in a holster.

All in all, I thought it was fair, accurate (with some minor points under review), and should be a big help in educating local LE personnel.

I believe OCDO was directly and indirectly a part of the impetus for this training, and I'm proud to say that rather than escalated harassment as we've seen in other parts of the country - our local LE leaders have stepped up by providing fair and balanced training to the officers on the street.

Kudos to LVMPD!

P.S. The training specifically cites the US vs. Ubiles decision that possession of a firearm alone is not RAS. http://openjurist.org/224/f3d/213/united-states-of-america-v-kahli-ubiles
 

timf343

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This is GREAT news! Do you have a copy of the literature you're citing available? If you don't feel comfortable distributing it, if you could give me the title and/or document number, I will get the PIO to send me a copy.

Tim
 

timf343

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Bob-

I spoke with PIO and they are having trouble finding it. Could you give me the title of the course?

Was it an actual interactive training? A video? Just reading?

Thanks!!
Tim
 

timf343

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Bob, it's also my understanding there is a related procedural order released within the last several days. If you could give me that number, I'll get "public" copies and post to the site without getting anyone into trouble :)

The PO number is the "Directive No." in the upper right of the document.

Thanks!
Tim
 

Merlin

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Man, if true, this is truly inspiring. It seems like it is so rare for a police organization to just do the right thing in these matters, and it gives me renewed hope if ours actually did.

Clearly, this thing needs to end up on Youtube, as an example for other LEA's.


EDIT -

It would also be sweet to be able to keep a copy of such a video on your phone, yaknow, for review. :)
 

aadvark

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It is about time that The Metropolitan Police Deaprtment caught up with the rest of The State of Nevada cocnerning open carry.

One more thing, be sure to remind them that it is Legal to carry a Firearm into a Public Building so as long as it is not concealed. They seem to think otherwise. Then again, since when have they followed State Preemption?
 

DEROS72

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Wow I used to Live in Las Vegas about 3 years ago (over on Nellis and about Desert Inn) Lived there about 4 years.Sounds like things there are going well.So if I come back to visit friends would I have a problem OC......











Yours truly at the Seattle Teaparty downtown Seattle 4/15. Pic doesn't show it but there were about 2000+ Cops around here hardly ever bother OC.
 

Tophog

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timf343 wrote:
This is GREAT news! Do you have a copy of the literature you're citing available? If you don't feel comfortable distributing it, if you could give me the title and/or document number, I will get the PIO to send me a copy.

Tim

Tim,

I would have thought they did this just because of you. :D
At least the first scenario.
 

timf343

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I met with the Las Vegas Metro Police Public Information Office and was given an opportunity to review the open carry training. Everything mentioned by bobernet is dead on accurate (not trying to imply that I didn't believe it would be).

The PIO asked me not to reveal the contents of the training, and I agreed knowing that if it came down to it, we could try to fight for a NRS 239 release of the information. But in my personal opinion, there was nothing in the training that we don't already know. In fact, I was very surprised to see the training as legally accurate as it was. It's now really just a matter of having officers following the training (the law).

There were a couple of court cases mentioned. The Ubiles case that bobernet referenced is a good read, and I recommend to all. They also referenced Somee vs Nevada:

http://www.precydent.com/OriginalVersion/124NevAdvOpNo42.pdf?id=341094

And reading that case led me to look up a referenced State v. Lisenbee case:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=nv&vol=116NvAdvOpNo117&invol=2

These are all good reads for those who have the time and are so inclined.

Tim
 

timf343

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Also, the PIO specifically agreed to work with our group any time we have questions or concerns related to the LVMPD. I think this is a good step in the right direction and demonstrates that as a group, we have some power to influence change and have our voices heard, even if we are only in the infant stages of that influence right now.
 

Merlin

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RE: Blue Card



I watched the NVSCA CCW Forum Webcast on Tuesday, and that question came up. The rep from LVMPD stated clearly that the blue card is NOT required to be carried on your person, for all of the reasons we have previously discussed here. He said that it is a training issue, and nothing more. I wish I could have recorded the webcast. I would love to cut it up into snippets regarding the questions that come up frequently during unlawful detentions and such, so that I could play the video for the officer right then and there. :)


RE: the training video

While I can certainly appreciate the progress made with PIO, I see no justifiable reason to keep such a thing confidential. Tim, you've seen it. What's the justification?
 
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