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Thread: What is the status of RI permit issuance? Shall issue? may issue? what?

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    Some authoroties describe RI as shall issue, and the NRA map shows RI as may issue, and not even "reasonable issue"

    I heard this was changing - anyone have up to date current information on whether and why RI should be categorized a certain way?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    PM Jared for a response on this.

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    Mike, PM me for specific details. What I will tell you on here is that RI 11-47-11 is shall issue. Mosby v Devine (RI Supreme Court 851 a2d) verified this, many chiefs drag their feet and are not cooperative. They put up a hurdle that perhaps you and I should discuss, it's rather complex. PM me and we can discuss.

    As far as open carry, it is only "allowed" under an Attorney General permit (RI 11-47-18) which is may-issue.

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    Jared wrote:
    Mike, PM me for specific details. What I will tell you on here is that RI 11-47-11 is shall issue. Mosby v Devine (RI Supreme Court 851 a2d) verified this, many chiefs drag their feet and are not cooperative. They put up a hurdle that perhaps you and I should discuss, it's rather complex. PM me and we can discuss.

    As far as open carry, it is only "allowed" under an Attorney General permit (RI 11-47-18) which is may-issue.
    Well sounds lke an applicant who's chief drags his feet needs to be sued to pick up his feet.

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    Mike, like I said, PM me if you want more details. We already sued years ago, but we have a new issue in RI and a lawsuit is not that simple, it's a unique problem that is only happening in Rhode Island.

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    Hey there folks, I'm just here to introduce myself. Henceforth I shall be known as Crossfire Guy.

    I guess I have a unique story, one that begs to be told. Having worked in the firearms business for a long time, I had a prmit to carry for about 12 years. I opened a store with a friend who turned out to be otherwise . I lost my portion of the store as well as my permit to carry as my partner in the business sent a letter to the AG's office to revoke that permit. I have never had a black mark on my record for anything at all. Yet, my permit was indeed revoked. I spoke with the Chief of the division which issued my permit and came up empty. I couldn't see the letter nor could I determine what the contents were, other than I no longer needed a permit as I was out of business.

    A few years later, I applied and was denied, the reason, I did not have a viable reason to carry, despite the fact that I was still an NRA Certified Instructor. To this day I have had difficulties in obtaining a permit.

    This brings me to the pertinent question of "What can I do?

    I have thought about contacting BATFE to see if they can help.

    They know me and they knew him, they also know that I was cleared of any wrong doing period!

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank You, in advance.

    Crossfire Guy

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    Crossfire - you will probably get better help at CRALRI.org.

    RI AG permits are may issue.

    Town permits are supposed to be shall issue but many chiefs are dragging their feet. Depending on where you live you may or maynot be able toget a town permit.



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    Thanks for your reply. I used to deal with others who had problems with this very thing. Now it's my turn. I'll try the other site you suggested and see where that gets me.

    Thanks again, Crossfire Guy

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    McX
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    i have stopped here to cry. we can't get any permits, so we can't even be denied in our state.

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    Crossfire Guy, sure sounds like you had your permit revoked without any due process. Do you not have attorneys in Providence Plantations and Rhode Island who can take on your case?

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    Mosby v. Devine actually upheld "may-issue" in RI. Under a weird opinion, the majority said "keep" arms was an individual right, while "bear arms" was collective. The dissent got it right.

    I'd say it's may issue. I asked the webmaster at Handgunlaw why he had RI listed as shall-issue, he explained it was that the statute was worded as shall issue, but maybe not the actual results. That's opposite than CT, which is worded as may-issue but they have chosen not to decline anyone based on their "need" for a permit.

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    Is it any "easier" for a non-resident to get a RI permit? Would I be going directly through the AG?

    They need to do away with the statement of need to be a true Shall issue state.

    It also looks I (non-resident) would have to pick it up in person?
    States dont have rights. People do.

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    Handgunlaw says you can apply to the AG or any town. I don't hear much from RI folks so I don't know if one's easier than another. Looks like you'll have to go there though.

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    I am a Rhode Island resident; I know several people who applied for aCCW permit in RI and every single One got denied. RI is a may issue state and I also know thateveryone gets deniedthat applies for a CCW! In order to get a permit you have to dispute it with the AG office, 90% of time they will issue you a Permit. RI makes it so hard to get a permit that many people don't even bother to apply.

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    § 11-47-11 License or permit to carry concealed pistol or revolver. – (a) The licensing authorities of any city or town shall, upon application of any person twenty-one (21) years of age or over having a bona fide residence or place of business within the city or town, or of any person twenty-one (21) years of age or over having a bona fide residence within the United States and a license or permit to carry a pistol or revolver concealed upon his or her person issued by the authorities of any other state or subdivision of the United States, issue a license or permit to the person to carry concealed upon his or her person a pistol or revolver everywhere within this state for four (4) years from date of issue, if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear an injury to his or her person or property or has any other proper reason for carrying a pistol or revolver, and that he or she is a suitable person to be so licensed. The license or permit shall be in triplicate in form to be prescribed by the attorney general and shall bear the fingerprint, photograph, name, address, description, and signature of the licensee and the reason given for desiring a license or permit and in no case shall it contain the serial number of any firearm. The original shall be delivered to the licensee. Any member of the licensing authority, its agents, servants, and employees shall be immune from suit in any action, civil or criminal, based upon any official act or decision, performed or made in good faith in issuing a license or permit under this chapter.


    Need to get a legislator to write up a bill to strike the bold portion of the law.

    States dont have rights. People do.

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    This situation is sort of ironic. Rhode Island was the only country to put the new federal Constitution to a public referendum. The public defeated it by a margin of something like 11 to 1, wanting nothing to do with the Constitution.

    Remember at that time there were plenty of people, Anti-federalists, who foresaw the possibilities for government overreach and expansionin the new constitution. The rest of thestates avoided the unpopularity issue by ratifying in state legislatures or setting up ratifying conventions.

    The new federal government had to brow-beat RI into accepting the Constitution--impossibly high tariffs, trade embargoes, that sort of thing, although what exactly I cannot recall.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    This situation is sort of ironic. Rhode Island was the only country to put the new federal Constitution to a public referendum. The public defeated it by a margin of something like 11 to 1, wanting nothing to do with the Constitution.
    Didn't know that Rhode Island was a country back then.

    Was Roger Williams its first president? :P

    Yata hey

    PS - You better not come up with something that shows they were a country for a while - I don't like eating crow.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    This situation is sort of ironic. Rhode Island was the only country to put the new federal Constitution to a public referendum. The public defeated it by a margin of something like 11 to 1, wanting nothing to do with the Constitution.
    Didn't know that Rhode Island was a country back then.

    Was Roger Williams its first president? :P

    Yata hey

    PS - You better not come up with something that shows they were a country for a while - I don't like eating crow.
    They were all independent and sovereign countries--that's why they were called states. You know, the meaning for "state" that means "country."

    Organized in a federation under the Articles of Confederation.*

    My god! Massa Robert would roll over in his grave. Lee said he could not raise his hand against his country--Virginia. And that was in the 1860s.

    By the way. I just came across this little bit recently. Did you know Lee was a colonel in the 1st Cavalry when he resigned his commission in the US Army? I never knew. Wow. Also, it kinda sheds new light on J.E.B. Stuart's early absence at Gettysburg. Bet ol' Lee was having fits, himself having been in the cavalry.

    *Yes, there was a Confederacy before the Confederacy. Interesting period in American history. Our first President was in fact not Geo. Washington. Our first was John Hanson.

    On another note. The full name was Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union. OK, now if it was a perpetual union, from where came the legal authority to do away with it a few years later under a convention? A convention called to strengthen some of the articles, butwhich morphed into afull blown constitutionalconvention without the authority to write the template for a whole new government. And then seventy-some years later that government crushed states who left a union that was not even perpetual?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  19. #19
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    Citizen wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    This situation is sort of ironic. Rhode Island was the only country to put the new federal Constitution to a public referendum. The public defeated it by a margin of something like 11 to 1, wanting nothing to do with the Constitution.
    Didn't know that Rhode Island was a country back then.

    Was Roger Williams its first president? :P

    Yata hey

    PS - You better not come up with something that shows they were a country for a while - I don't like eating crow.
    They were all independent and sovereign countries--that's why they were called states. You know, the meaning for "state" that means "country."

    Organized in a federation under the Articles of Confederation.*

    My god! Massa Robert would roll over in his grave. Lee said he could not raise his hand against his country--Virginia. And that was in the 1860s.

    By the way. I just came across this little bit recently. Did you know Lee was a colonel in the 1st Cavalry when he resigned his commission in the US Army? I never knew. Wow. Also, it kinda sheds new light on J.E.B. Stuart's early absence at Gettysburg. Bet ol' Lee was having fits, himself having been in the cavalry.

    *Yes, there was a Confederacy before the Confederacy. Interesting period in American history. Our first President was in fact not Geo. Washington. Our first was John Hanson.

    On another note. The full name was Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union. OK, now if it was a perpetual union, from where came the legal authority to do away with it a few years later under a convention? A convention called to strengthen some of the articles, butwhich morphed into afull blown constitutionalconvention without the authority to write the template for a whole new government. And then seventy-some years later that government crushed states who left a union that was not even perpetual?
    Ok - state = country. I see the sense of it.

    Know a bit about Robt. E. Lee, 2nd in his West Point class, "Old Marble," Mexican War, even the cavalry, but did not recall his rank when he resigned his commission.

    Lots of good info here.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  20. #20
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    SNIP Ok - state = country. I see the sense of it.

    Know a bit about Robt. E. Lee, 2nd in his West Point class, "Old Marble," Mexican War, even the cavalry, but did not recall his rank when he resigned his commission.

    Lots of good info here.

    Yata hey
    I wasn't gonna say anything, but since you deliberately provided me a broken link, I'm gonna ask:

    Do you want mustard to go with that crow? :P
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    SNIP Ok - state = country. I see the sense of it.

    Know a bit about Robt. E. Lee, 2nd in his West Point class, "Old Marble," Mexican War, even the cavalry, but did not recall his rank when he resigned his commission.

    Lots of good info here.

    Yata hey
    I wasn't gonna say anything, but since you deliberately provided me a broken link, I'm gonna ask:

    Do you want mustard to go with that crow? :P
    Gotta remember to check my links - here 'tis:
    http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoun...%20General.htm

    Just a little garlic and well done without feathers, if you please. :?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Crossfire Guy wrote:
    Hey there folks, I'm just here to introduce myself.* Henceforth I shall be known as Crossfire Guy.

    I guess I have a unique story, one that begs to be told. Having worked in the firearms business for a long time, I had a prmit to carry for about 12 years.* I opened a store with a friend who turned out to be otherwise . I lost my portion of the store as well as my permit to carry as my partner in the business sent a letter to the AG's office to revoke that permit. I have never had a black mark on my record for anything at all.* Yet, my permit was indeed revoked. I spoke with the Chief of the division which issued my permit and came up empty. I couldn't see the letter nor could I determine what the contents were, other than I no longer needed a permit as I was out of business.

    A few years later, I applied and was denied, the reason, I did not have a viable reason to carry, despite the fact that I was still an NRA Certified Instructor. To this day I have had difficulties in obtaining a permit.

    This brings me to the pertinent question of "What can I do?

    I have thought about contacting BATFE to see if they can help.

    They know me and they knew him, they also know that I was cleared of any wrong doing period!

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank You, in advance.

    Crossfire Guy
    You have the right to see any documentation that was used to revoke your permit. I doubt they had any, so that's why they didn't show you any. This screams that they didn't give you due process. I would contact them again and ask for the documentation or tell them that you will get a lawyer.
    Being a firearms instructor should be reason enough to get a permit since you might teach classes outside of a range and you won't be able to legally carry a firearm otherwise.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Basic, sound advice given to get an attorney involved. Whether he did or not, that was 6 months ago and no report back.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
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    Got my R.I. Permit

    Lots of hoops to jump thru, but from the time I got it together,till i picked up permit was about 4 weeks. They issue most for" work- related puposes". I donot think it is enforcible. I work 24/7 if asked!

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