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Thread: So how much is enough?

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    So as I was cruising the forums, it occured to me that quite a few people are very much convinced that we are going to end up being hostilly taken over by our own government. For example, someone said, "we are still a free society and haven't been enslaved yet."
    So my question to everyone here, is how much is enough? At what point would you personally be willing to break the law in order to secure your own freedom? i.e. If police searches of everyone's homes to confiscate all firearms were enacted, would you allow them to take it? or would you potentially use it against them to protect your rights?

    Keep in mind I'm not trying to incite a riot or anything, I'm just curious...



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    um... no ones taking my guns. by ANY means necessary

    besides id be one of the "government" guys ordered to do searches and i can assure you, every house i check would just be another "law abiding citizen and no weapons were found"

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    Confiscation is definitely where the line is drawn for me. I may act sooner than that but definitely not later.

    History is full of stories of unarmed people being slaughtered by armed thugs, some within and some outside the realm of government.

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    Huh, too bad I lost all of my firearms in a tragic boating accident............
    R[ƎVO˩]UTION

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    WOLVERINES!!!!!

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    WOLVERINES!!!!!
    hahaha, what is that from?

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    PiJiNWiNg wrote:
    hahaha, what is that from?
    Red Dawn

    ETA: Beat me to it
    R[ƎVO˩]UTION

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    Lex malla, lex nulla

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    r6-rider wrote:
    besides id be one of the "government" guys ordered to do searches and i can assure you, every house i check would just be another "law abiding citizen and no weapons were found"
    For that reason they wouldn't allow you to do the searches. Just like China had to bring in troops from outside the area to shoot down protesters in Tiananmen Square, they will bring in UN troops from outside the US to do the dirty work.

    Just give Obama some form of social unrest and he will "ask" the UN for assistance.

    When Virginia secedes from the United Socialist States of America sometime down the road, that will be my notice to take up arms. If they try to register or confiscate guns it will be time to become a criminal. After all they can just keep making laws until all of us are a criminal one way or another.

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    PiJiNWiNg wrote:
    So as I was cruising the forums, it occured to me that quite a few people are very much convinced that we are going to end up being hostilly taken over by our own government.
    On the contrary, quite a few of us believe we've already been taken over by a hostile government. The takeover wasn't hostile, but the velvet gloves are wearing thin, revealing the iron fists within.



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    45acpForMe wrote:
    r6-rider wrote:
    besides id be one of the "government" guys ordered to do searches and i can assure you, every house i check would just be another "law abiding citizen and no weapons were found"
    For that reason they wouldn't allow you to do the searches. Just like China had to bring in troops from outside the area to shoot down protesters in Tiananmen Square, they will bring in UN troops from outside the US to do the dirty work.

    Just give Obama some form of social unrest and he will "ask" the UN for assistance.

    When Virginia secedes from the United Socialist States of America sometime down the road, that will be my notice to take up arms. If they try to register or confiscate guns it will be time to become a criminal. After all they can just keep making laws until all of us are a criminal one way or another.
    trust me AZ is the same way. we arent going to just drop our weapons without a fight. no one i personally know would ever willingly confiscate a citizens personal weapon. and if obama wants to call the UN for help so be it. we will not lay down our arms and surrender to the government. at least i know i wont

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    Those blue helmets make for very good targets.

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    If it is true that they can find all of my guns somebody please send them over. I have missplaced one of my favorite ones and tore the house up today looking for it but can't find it. I know I put it someplace safe last month because the grandkids were coming to visit and since they left I can't seem to remember where that was.

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    KBCraig wrote:
    PiJiNWiNg wrote:
    So as I was cruising the forums, it occured to me that quite a few people are very much convinced that we are going to end up being hostilly taken over by our own government.
    On the contrary, quite a few of us believe we've already been taken over by a hostile government. The takeover wasn't hostile, but the velvet gloves are wearing thin, revealing the iron fists within.

    Beautifully stated!


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Where I work, we frequently have military personnel in the building for seminars and/or training. I've asked this question of them.

    If the military was to receive an order from the president to aid in the process of firearms confiscation, knowning this would be an illegal order, do they believe their fellow men in arms wouldthey carry it out. The ones with whom I have asked this question have said "no". Furthermore, they also believed it would be an illegal order based upon their oath to the Constitution and the Posse Comitatus Act. I added that the president could not even issue such an order because it would be not only illegal at its inception, but highly treasonous as well opening him up to arrest.

    However, would a president do something like this? Yes, I believe it is entirely possible and even likely.

    Just remember, the spark that ignited the American Revolution was gun control via confiscation.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    PiJiNWiNg wrote:
    ...quite a few people are very much convinced that we are going to end up being hostilly taken over by our own government.
    It is not just us nutjobs that think it is possible. This article was posted today:

    Glenn Beck's fear of Obama: Seize power overnight
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE...;pageId=108088


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    PiJiNWiNg wrote:
    So as I was cruising the forums, it occured to me that quite a few people are very much convinced that we are going to end up being hostilly taken over by our own government. For example, someone said, "we are still a free society and haven't been enslaved yet."
    So my question to everyone here, is how much is enough? At what point would you personally be willing to break the law in order to secure your own freedom? i.e. If police searches of everyone's homes to confiscate all firearms were enacted, would you allow them to take it? or would you potentially use it against them to protect your rights?
    I see that you're not in the right forum.

    Gun owners all believe:

    It's best to cooperate with the police at the scene and let the lawyers work it out later.

    Disagreeing with the police at the scene is never a smart move.

    Having an attitude with a cop is a quick way to get tasered.

    A checkpoint doesn't deprive you of any liberty, and the benefits outweigh the cost.

    If you have nothing to hide, you don't mind your person, car or home being searched.

    A little inconvenience is necessary to have a safe society.

    We're not really free if we have to worry about crime, so it's best to let police do what they need to do to keep us safe.

    A person has no right to privacy for an illegal act.

    Gun owners have been the strongest advocates of the police and security state in which we find ourselves. It deductively follows that gun owners would be the strongest proponents of handing over their guns in the interest of safety.

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    smoking357 wrote:
    PiJiNWiNg wrote:
    So as I was cruising the forums, it occured to me that quite a few people are very much convinced that we are going to end up being hostilly taken over by our own government. For example, someone said, "we are still a free society and haven't been enslaved yet."
    So my question to everyone here, is how much is enough? At what point would you personally be willing to break the law in order to secure your own freedom? i.e. If police searches of everyone's homes to confiscate all firearms were enacted, would you allow them to take it? or would you potentially use it against them to protect your rights?
    I see that you're not in the right forum.

    Gun owners all believe:

    It's best to cooperate with the police at the scene and let the lawyers work it out later.

    Disagreeing with the police at the scene is never a smart move.

    Having an attitude with a cop is a quick way to get tasered.

    A checkpoint doesn't deprive you of any liberty, and the benefits outweigh the cost.

    If you have nothing to hide, you don't mind your person, car or home being searched.

    A little inconvenience is necessary to have a safe society.

    We're not really free if we have to worry about crime, so it's best to let police do what they need to do to keep us safe.

    A person has no right to privacy for an illegal act.

    Gun owners have been the strongest advocates of the police and security state in which we find ourselves. It deductively follows that gun owners would be the strongest proponents of handing over their guns in the interest of safety.
    Stop smokin' whatever that is...

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    45acpForMe wrote:
    Just give Obama some form of social unrest and he will "ask" the UN for assistance.
    I might view the U.N. as a liberating army. Any government that proposes to implement a more docile and less confrontational police force might well be preferred by many Americans as an alternative to this crushing and brutal authoritarian state under which we now toil.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Stop smokin' whatever that is...
    Fine. Note the numbered statements with which you disagree.
    1. It's best to cooperate with the police at the scene and let the lawyers work it out later.
    2. Disagreeing with the police at the scene is never a smart move.
    3. Having an attitude with a cop is a quick way to get tasered.
    4. A checkpoint doesn't deprive you of any liberty, and the benefits outweigh the cost.
    5. If you have nothing to hide, you don't mind your person, car or home being searched.
    6. A little inconvenience is necessary to have a safe society.
    7. We're not really free if we have to worry about crime, so it's best to let police do what they need to do to keep us safe.
    8. A person has no right to privacy for an illegal act.

  21. #21
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    smoking357 wrote:
    45acpForMe wrote:
    Just give Obama some form of social unrest and he will "ask" the UN for assistance.
    I might view the U.N. as a liberating army. Any government that proposes to implement a more docile and less confrontational police force might well be preferred by many Americans as an alternative to this crushing and brutal authoritarian state under which we now toil.
    I do not want to see blue helmets in my country...

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    45acpForMe wrote:
    r6-rider wrote:
    besides id be one of the "government" guys ordered to do searches and i can assure you, every house i check would just be another "law abiding citizen and no weapons were found"
    For that reason they wouldn't allow you to do the searches. Just like China had to bring in troops from outside the area to shoot down protesters in Tiananmen Square, they will bring in UN troops from outside the US to do the dirty work.

    Just give Obama some form of social unrest and he will "ask" the UN for assistance.

    When Virginia secedes from the United Socialist States of America sometime down the road, that will be my notice to take up arms. If they try to register or confiscate guns it will be time to become a criminal. After all they can just keep making laws until all of us are a criminal one way or another.
    Bringing in UN troops would be the biggest mistake they cold make. A lot of people will be reluctant to shoot at, even to defend their liberties, American cops or military.

    But blue helmets? Light em up!

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    Slayer of Paper wrote:
    Bringing in UN troops would be the biggest mistake they cold make. A lot of people will be reluctant to shoot at, even to defend their liberties, American cops or military.

    But blue helmets? Light em up!
    Did you ever stop to think that we'd be freer and safer with U.N. forces in America?

    How would we be any less free?

    If the U.N. takes control of the streets, your local police force would come under U.N. control, and the U.N. forces might very well be more tolerant, compassionate and less violent than our police.

    As bad as things are today, I'd be interested in letting the experiment run.


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    smoking357 wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Stop smokin' whatever that is...
    Fine. Note the numbered statements with which you disagree.
    1. It's best to cooperate with the police at the scene and let the lawyers work it out later.
    2. Disagreeing with the police at the scene is never a smart move.
    3. Having an attitude with a cop is a quick way to get tasered.
    4. A checkpoint doesn't deprive you of any liberty, and the benefits outweigh the cost.
    5. If you have nothing to hide, you don't mind your person, car or home being searched.
    6. A little inconvenience is necessary to have a safe society.
    7. We're not really free if we have to worry about crime, so it's best to let police do what they need to do to keep us safe.
    8. A person has no right to privacy for an illegal act.

    There are instances where I'd have problems with all of them. #8 is bad all the way around. With the various types of crimes on the books, it would be next to impossible to maintain any privacy for anyone ifsomeone's always seeking illegal activity in normal conversations. Where do you draw the line for a lawful invasion of privacy? What conversations do you specifically troll, and for what specific activity?


  25. #25
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    smoking357 wrote:
    Slayer of Paper wrote:
    Bringing in UN troops would be the biggest mistake they cold make. A lot of people will be reluctant to shoot at, even to defend their liberties, American cops or military.

    But blue helmets? Light em up!
    Did you ever stop to think that we'd be freer and safer with U.N. forces in America?

    How would we be any less free?

    If the U.N. takes control of the streets, your local police force would come under U.N. control, and the U.N. forces might very well be more tolerant, compassionate and less violent than our police.

    As bad as things are today, I'd be interested in letting the experiment run.
    Judging be many of your other posts, you're certainly not the statist you appear to be in this thread. Why you're posting like this I'm not sure, but I'll go ahead and answer as if you were the U.N lover you appear to be.

    I have considered that. Freer? In what dream world? Safer? Safety -or security, being somehow protected from those who would do you harm- is an illusion. There are a few things that can be done that will make it less likely you will be harmed, most of them things you do yourself (such as always being armed, staying in a heightened state of situational awareness, and getting defensive training), but it simply is not possible to be completely safe and secure.

    How would we be less free? Well, if the blue helmets were contollng the streets, would I be able to walk down them openly armed without being harassed or asked for my "papers"? Who exactly would pay for these "peacekeepers"? Would the confiscation of my wealth (taxes) increase because of them?

    Would foreign troops be more tolerant, compassionate, and less violent that the police? What do you base that assessment on? Also, do you think criminals would respect blue helmets more than they do police? Would they respect international law, even though they ignore American laws?

    You can wish for such an experiment all you want. I say it's a good thing that it's not your call. Personally, I think the experiment would end up with a lot of dead foreigners wearing blue helmets.

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