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Thread: Second Amendment & The White House

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    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but I ran across this at the White House . Gov blog and it bears reminding everyone here, even if it has been posted.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_...ico-4/16/2009/

    THE WHITE HOUSE
    Office of the Press Secretary
    (Mexico City, Mexico)
    __________________________________________________ ______________________
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE April 16, 2009

    JOINT PRESS CONFERENCE WITH PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA
    AND PRESIDENT FELIPE CALDERÓN OF MEXICO
    Los Pinos
    Mexico City, Mexico
    4:29 P.M. CDT
    [SNIP]

    Q Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, Mr. President, as well.President Obama, as a candidate for your office, you said that you wanted to see the assault ban weapon -- the ban on assault weapons reinstated. Your Attorney General has spoken in favor of this. Mexican officials have also spoken in favor of it. But we haven't heard you say that since you took office. Do you plan to keep your promise? And if not, how do you explain that to the American people?
    And, President Calderón -- I'm sorry, if I may -- would you like to see this ban reinstated? And have you raised that today with President Obama? Thank you.

    PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, first of all, we did discuss this extensively in our meetings. I have not backed off at all from my belief that the gun -- the assault weapons ban made sense. And I continue to believe that we can respect and honor the Second Amendment rights in our Constitution, the rights of sportsmen and hunters and homeowners who want to keep their families safe to lawfully bear arms, while dealing with assault weapons that, as we now know, here in Mexico, are helping to fuel extraordinary violence -- violence in our own country, as well.
    Now, having said that, I think none of us are under any illusion that reinstating that ban would be easy. And so, what we've focused on is how we can improve our enforcement of existing laws, because even under current law, trafficking illegal firearms, sending them across a border, is illegal. That's something that we can stop.
    And so our focus is to work with Secretary Napolitano, Attorney General Holder, our entire Homeland Security team, ATF, border security, everybody who is involved in this, to coordinate with our counterparts in Mexico to significantly ramp up our enforcement of existing laws. And in fact, I've asked Eric Holder to do a complete review of how our enforcement operations are currently working and make sure that we're cutting down on the loopholes that are resulting in some of these drug trafficking problems.
    The last point I would make is that there are going to be some opportunities where I think we can build some strong consensus. I'll give you one example, and that is the issue of gun tracing. The tracing of bullets and ballistics and gun information that have been used in major crimes -- that's information that we are still not giving to law enforcement, as a consequence of provisions that have been blocked in the United States Congress, and those are the areas where I think that we can make some significant progress early.
    That doesn’t mean that we're steering away from the issue of the assault guns ban, but it does mean that we want to act with urgency, promptly, now. And I think we can make significant progress.
    PRESIDENT CALDERÓN: Thank you for your question. I want to say that, in effect, on this topic -- not only on this topic, but on many of the other thorny topics of relations between the U.S. and Mexico, we have had an open, frank, trusting conversation between President Obama and myself. We have spoken of assault weapons. He is well aware of our problems.
    And we have described it as it is from the moment that the prohibition on the sale of assault weapons a few years ago, we have seen an increase in the power of organized crime in Mexico. Only in my administration, in the two years and four months, we have been able to see -- or rather we have seized more than 16,000 assault weapons. And in the efforts we have made to track their origin -- and President Obama has referred to that -- we have seen that nearly 90 percent of those arms comes from the United States -- those weapons come from the United States. There are about 10,000 sales points in the U.S.-Mexico border -- only at the border.
    On the other hand, I do believe that our relationship -- the new era we must build in our relationship between Mexico and the United States must be one with trust and respect. And we definitely respect the decision of the U.S. Congress and of the U.S. people in this regard, because they are very well aware of President Obama and his government's willingness to move forward on these issues.
    We know that it is a politically delicate topic because Americans truly appreciate their constitutional rights, and particularly those that are part of the Second Amendment. I personally believe that as long as we are able to explain clearly what our problems in Mexico are, then we might also be able to seek a solution respecting the constitutional rights of the Americans, at the same time will prevent -- or rather avoid that organized crime becomes better armed in our country.
    But we have to work on it. We have to work on it. But we fully respect the opinion of the U.S. Congress and we know that there's a great deal of sensitivity regarding this topic.
    But there are many, many things that we can definitely move forward in. For example, in armament, it is not only a matter of seeing whether we can change the legislation on assault weapons -- we have already said what our position is -- but we might also be able to see whether they can apply existing legislation in Mexico and the United States on armament. For example, in Mexico it's a matter of enforcement, with the Export Control Act, for example -- this is in the United States -- I'm sorry -- prohibits the export of weapons to those countries where those weapons are prohibited.
    And that is the case of Mexico. If we actually comply with the U.S. law -- or rather if everybody complies with the U.S. law that prohibits the sale of these weapons and their export to Mexico, we can move a great deal forward.
    President Obama has made recent decisions in the last few weeks, and we value them and appreciate them -- for example, to reinforce the operational capability of U.S. border agencies in order to comply with this legislation and with other laws, in order to review the flows of entry not only into the United States, but also the outgoing flows, outgoing from the U.S., to make sure that there is no illicit money, in strict compliance with United States legislation. I think these are very important steps.
    But there is a problem, and only as long as we build on this trust and we clearly explain to citizens of both countries how we must find a solution, we will be able to achieve one. We do so respectfully, presenting our position, knowing full well how the U.S. people feel about this and being fully respectful of the sovereign decisions that the United States might make, or that any other country might make.
    One more thing -- one more thing I forgot to mention. One other thing we can do is to track the weapons that we have in Mexico. If we manage to detect weapons sold illegally in the United States in violation of this law on the control of weapons exports, or if, in the United States, they can have -- probably move forward on a good registry of armament or on the prohibition of certain massive sales of weapons, for example, to a hunter or to a common citizen -- we know that these people do not usually buy hundreds of rifles or assault weapons or grenades -- if we can move forward in those areas, I do believe that security both of the United States and Mexico will improve because those weapons are pointing against Mexican people and Mexican officials today.
    But crime is not only acting in Mexico. It is also acting in the United States. Organized crime is acting in both countries. And I do hope that those weapons that are sold today in the United States and are being used in Mexico, I hope the day will never come in which they will also be used against the North American society or against U.S. officials, just like they are now being used in Mexico.
    [SNIP]





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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    +1

    Politicians can't be trusted, and obozo has never been anything but one.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    PrayingForWar wrote:
    +1 Politicians can't be trusted, and obozo has never been anything but one.
    Nope. He is a Chicago crime machine product that is being given a pass to significance by the lamestream media. He belongs behind bars with his own kind, crooks or feral chimpanzees.

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    PrayingForWar wrote:
    +1 Politicians can't be trusted, and obozo has never been anything but one.
    Nope. He is a Chicago crime machine product that is being given a pass to significance by the lamestream media. He belongs behind bars with his own kind, crooks or feral chimpanzees.
    I stand corrected.
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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
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    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    SFCRetired wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    PrayingForWar wrote:
    +1 Politicians can't be trusted, and obozo has never been anything but one.
    Nope. He is a Chicago crime machine product that is being given a pass to significance by the lamestream media. He belongs behind bars with his own kind, crooks or feral chimpanzees.
    Please do not insult the chimpanzees.
    :shock: ROFL

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    ~ Why doesn't the mexican government get off it's lazy ass and fix itself rather than blaming us or trying to make us change. We have no obligation to modify our constitution to enable this backwards third world crack neighbor we have.

    This subject really steams me.

    ~ It is their responsibility, not ours, to reign in their countries corruption. we didn't have to build a big wall and shoot at illegal border jumping Canadians...And we don't catch tons of Canadians selling Meth and Cokein the US either... why?... They keep their country in check, self regulate, controlled economy. So, exactlywhy cant mexico do the same? --- Because they are lazy and corrupt.

    ~ Bow to their whims? -why ? ... Exactly who are we trying to please here ?

    ~ The really sad part, they have everything they need to do (to fix) this, beautiful land, culture, architecture, history.... so many things that could be going for them... but they waste it... such a shame.

    - Just my opinion.

    Bat


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    And we don't catch tons of Canadians selling Meth and Cokein the US either... why?... They keep their country in check, self regulate, controlled economy. So, exactlywhy cant mexico do the same? --- Because they are lazy and corrupt.

    So you don't think Mexico's proximity to say...Columbia and Mexico's ability to grow pot vs Canada has anything to do with the trafficking of drugs? Do you think the US prohibition of drugs might have something to do with the rise in violence? Do you remember the last time prohibition was popular here and what happened with violence? Do you think the prohibition of drugs here in the worlds biggest drug market, which makes the sale of drugs MORE profitable might have something to do with Mexico's problems? Just a little?

    I think it is a little more than just being lazy and corrupt. Every government is corrupt and boiling it down to "they just don't want to" is absurd. They CAN NOT do it. They are essentially attempting to fight their own military.

    Have you heard of the problems with cigarette smuggling in Canada, btw since you think they are so innocent?



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    Batousaii wrote:

    ~ The really sad part, they have everything they need to do (to fix) this, beautiful land, culture, architecture, history.... so many things that could be going for them... but they waste it... such a shame.

    - Just my opinion.

    Bat

    Bat, it's none of the above things you list that can cause a change, it's the people themselves.

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    codename_47 wrote:
    And we don't catch tons of Canadians selling Meth and Cokein the US either... why?... They keep their country in check, self regulate, controlled economy. So, exactlywhy cant mexico do the same? --- Because they are lazy and corrupt.

    So you don't think Mexico's proximity to say...Columbia and Mexico's ability to grow pot vs Canada has anything to do with the trafficking of drugs?
    Your other points are spot on, but I do have to point out that Canada is a major marijuana supplier. There has been less enforcement on the northern border because "they're like us", instead of being "damn furriners".

    There are tons of Canadians working illegally without green cards in the U.S., for the same reason: they can fake it better.

    The solution to drug violence, as you note, is the elimination of prohibition.


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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    KBCraig wrote:
    codename_47 wrote:
    And we don't catch tons of Canadians selling Meth and Cokein the US either... why?... They keep their country in check, self regulate, controlled economy. So, exactlywhy cant mexico do the same? --- Because they are lazy and corrupt.

    So you don't think Mexico's proximity to say...Columbia and Mexico's ability to grow pot vs Canada has anything to do with the trafficking of drugs?
    Your other points are spot on, but I do have to point out that Canada is a major marijuana supplier. There has been less enforcement on the northern border because "they're like us", instead of being "damn furriners".

    There are tons of Canadians working illegally without green cards in the U.S., for the same reason: they can fake it better.

    The solution to drug violence, as you note, is the elimination of prohibition.
    +1 on everything except:

    "The solution to drug violence, as you note, is the elimination of prohibition."

    I can't agree that absolute legalization is the answer. Of course if we're just talking about grass, well what the hell. Never heard a pothead make even a moreaggressive statement than "huh?". Never heard of a pothead holding up a gas stationfor an ounce. I have heard of meth and crack heads killing for completely insane reasons, then there's the criminal actions they undertake to support their habits. Unrestrained use of amphetemines, coca and opium derived drugs have at least from my perspective led to severe psycological problems, or at least exacerbated existing ones. There is no way I can support a blanketlegalization.

    It's my oppinion however that if the border was truly secured, we could return to a society where police did not "need" swat teams in every podunk town, wewouldn't need "no knock" warrants, or other offensive "proactive" police tactics. I know there are people here who I dissagree with VEHEMENTLY on every other issue, but I'm sure all of us agree that drugs (and recently radical islam, soon to be replaced by right wing extremists) are the vehicle and crisis used to erode freedom.

    I do not believe the solution is to allow just any adult to purchase and use chemicals that obviously do damage to themselves, just because they are to stupid to make a better choice.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Although this Administration is very hostile to firearms rights, they and the Congress have not made a whole lot of aggressive moves, and were just barely able to shoot down national CC reciprocity.

    What they are trying like mad to do is to come in through the side and erode every right the 2A was put in to protect. The "Obamacare" debacle would give the Government the right to examine your bank account and dip into it without warning. There are various bills under consderation to silence dissent by legislating conservative talk radio out of existence and by enabling the President to declare a "cyber emergency" whereby he could sieze control of the internet and all communication devices on it. The scope of the threat to freedom posed by the hard Left being in power is truly astounding.

    I posit that the plan - which seems to be rapidly unravelling as it is exposed - is to get us to the point where there are no other rights left for the 2A to protect. THAT is when they will present registration and confiscation proposals to a cowed public. This of course presupposes that they will get that far before the 2010 mid-terms; which, sez me, they won't.

    Then again I also said we would never be so stupid as to put the likes of Barack Obama in the White House, but I do believe even the sheeple are starting to realize where laamb chops come from.

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    Alex, this whole thing reminds me of the conversation you talked about with the Anti from DC.

    The guns are coming from the US and making Mexico SOOOO dangerous. Then why is the US not SOOOOO dangerous. The guns from the good side of town can't be what makes the bad side of town bad.

    Just remembered, I'm running low and need to go stock up on my hundreds of grenades for deer season.

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    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    What neither President or their administrations are telling you is how the "90% of illegal guns in Mexico came from the USA."

    The answer is quite simple. The Mexican Law Enforcement Agencies (both the locals and the federales) get a large amount of their small arms and explosives from the USA lawfully.

    Then, corrupt officials sell those weapons to the criminals in Mexico.

    Voila, we have illegal guns in Mexico that came from the USA.


    What the administrations of both Presidents are letting us, the general public, assume is that the guns somehow came from gun-shops in the USA, were sold to private folks here in the USA, then were smuggled across the border to be used in Mexico unlawfully. This notion is completely absurd, especially since the vast majority of the illegal firearms seized in Mexico were full-auto and/or Destructive Devices.

    I'd like our administrations to show me all of the law-abiding citizens with valid canceled tax stamps and matching ATF Form 4's that had their Title II NFA weapons stolen and then found those weapons in Mexico. Hell, I bet there isn't one in existence. And I know there isn't a single case of a lawfully purchased NFA weapon being illegally sold to Mexicans or illegally transported out of the country to Mexico. The folks who went through all of the hoops to legally obtain Title II weapons guard their exclusive purchases like the crown jewels...

    That's the kind of shenanigans our administration is trying to pull.

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    Alexcabbie wrote:
    The "Obamacare" debacle would give the Government the right to examine your bank account and dip into it without warning.

    The House Bill simplyencourages health insurers to directly bill patient bank accounts with their permission, instead of going through the mails. The intent is to cut down on paperwork burdens. This was one of the myths your Congressman quite aptly debunked at his town hall in Reston.

    And no matter what Glen Beck or Rush says, there is no secret White House "plan" to shut them up. For that, there is only prayer -- and the withering away of their advertisers.


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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Nice try Donk. Moran cleared the hall of hostile voters and proceeded to feed pap to the sheeple and fellow travellers (although throwing Randall Terry out was probably the one thing he's ever done that I agree with. I am against abortion, but the "Pickled fetus crowd" makes me roll my eyes ). These DemonRatz take amendments out, sell the garbage, and slap them back in at the last minute. Portions of the bill will be administered by the Infernal Revenooers, the Federal agency so beloved by tax-and-spenders.

    As for your prayers for the silencing of talk radio, buy some knee pads, you are going to be at it for some time.....

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    Alexcabbie wrote:
    Nice try Donk. Moran cleared the hall of hostile voters and proceeded to feed pap to the sheeple and fellow travellers (although throwing Randall Terry out was probably the one thing he's ever done that I agree with. I am against abortion, but the "Pickled fetus crowd" makes me roll my eyes ). These DemonRatz take amendments out, sell the garbage, and slap them back in at the last minute. Portions of the bill will be administered by the Infernal Revenooers, the Federal agency so beloved by tax-and-spenders.

    As for your prayers for the silencing of talk radio, buy some knee pads, you are going to be at it for some time.....
    Moran didn't clear the hall of hostile voters. I watched on C-Span as he got rid of a few -- like Terry -- that wouldn't stop yelling "Baby Killer" at Howard Dean. But that was only after he invited Terry to share with the audience for five minutes, instead of yellingchants at him,an invitation Terry declined. He had people submit questions in writing, and took turns picking from the pro-reform, anti-reform, and undecided boxes he stuck out.

    I am sorry you finally figured us Demon-Ratz out: while the provision you cited --like most of what theRepublicans complain of -- is not in any of the healthbills, we COULD "slap them back in at the last minute" thusinsuring the Marxist-Lenninist takover that we allhave been conspiring to bring about.

    Don't forget the provisions where we are required -- as a condition of professional care -- to whistle the Internationale before each check up andto refer to our doctorshenceforth as "comrades in disease prevention."

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    Sorry, but the bill (Being read right this minute by my wife for her political OUTRAGE rant of the day, who has been blogging her ass off about it for a long time now) does NOT say "encourages health insurers to directly bill patient bank accounts with their permission, instead of going through the mails."


    It's right there in black and white.

    Subtitle G
    Early Investments
    Sec. 1173A
    Standardize Electronic Administrative Transactions.
    Subsection A
    (Paragraph 4)
    REQUIREMENTS FOR SPECIFIC STANDARDS - The standards under this section shall be developed, adopted, and enforced so as to --
    (Sub-Paragraph C)
    Enable Electronic Funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation with the related health-care payment and remittance advice;

    Two paragraphs above this, in Paragraph 2, (Sub-Paragraph D) it states: "Goals for financial and administrative transactions" Enable the real-time (or near real-time) determination of an individual's financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card.

    (So, A National I.D. card that required to present for service and is directly linked to your bank account? Sounds fun.)


    Read it for yourself, don't trust politicians who admit they don't have time to read it for themselves, or rather for YOU, the lucky recipient of Government control.

    http://thomas.loc.gov

    Full text of bill (H.R. 3200) right on front page.

    No arguing the mandated access to your bank accounts, and requiring you to carry "papers" that allow that access in order to even see a Doctor...


    Don't even ask about the 2.5% "penalty on your taxes if you don't comply or participate in the program...

    You can always read what the wife has to say if you care to.. she reads another section of the Bill every day, and for what it's worth, is a retired R.N.

    www.Rivers-Ramblings.blogspot.com




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    Looks to me like we are talking about the same thing. No national ID: Just talking about your private (or public if you choose) health insurance card.

    Regards,

    An "Active Duty" attorney

  20. #20
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    A Democrat lawyer.

    TWICE as useless.

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    If we manage to detect weapons sold illegally in the United States in violation of this law on the control of weapons exports, or if, in the United States, they can have -- probably move forward on a good registry of armament or on the prohibition of certain massive sales of weapons, for example, to a hunter or to a common citizen -- we know that these people do not usually buy hundreds of rifles or assault weapons or grenades -- if we can move forward in those areas, I do believe that security both of the United States and Mexico will improve because those weapons are pointing against Mexican people and Mexican officials today.

    where can I buy grenades? I'd happily register them.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Apropos to why places like Mexico are the way they are, I would reference P.J. O'Rourke's experience in the Phillippines, where; while covering a series of uprisings over corruption and poverty; was driven past a rice field with an irrigation pump powered by a 2-cycle engine. Being told that the harvest was limited to one crop, he pointed to the pump and remarked that if they used it they could manage three crops per year. The driver's response was a laaconic: "Oh, that thing has been broken for years". P.J. then wrote:

    "So. There you have it. These people are killing each other over nickel-and-dime corruption when one Junior High School lawnmower engine fix-it shop project could have tripled the entire village economy. Understand that, and you will understand the entire Third World. And please call or write if you do."

    Frustrating, isn't it?



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