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Thread: Did I ever share mine?

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I don't believe I ever shared my self-defense story. If this is a repeat, remove it.

    This was probably 6 or 7 years ago. My son was still in a car seat, just barely.

    I was sitting in line at a Mcdonald's Drive thru. I was driving an older import car. The front left brake caliper had developed a small leak. I had just come from the auto parts place and had the new caliper, was hungry, son in tow, on the way back home to swap it out.

    When sitting in a line like that, you don't hold the pedal to the floor, do you? Just enough to keep the car from rolling. Well, bad caliper. It rolled ever so slightly and nudged the car in front of me. Couldn't have been more than 0.10mph. At first, I wasn't even sure it had happened; save for the outburst of swearing and screaming from the female driver.

    Her car was even more of a jalopy than mine. Had I rammed into the back of her vehicle at 30+ mph, I'm still not sure you would have been able to tell. But I'm not trying to make an excuse. I had a bad brake caliper, I knew that. But is this really a big deal?

    Oh great, guess what!? Obese boyfriend is now somehow obligated to exit the vehicle. He rapidly approaches the passenger side of my car. Screaming about how I deserve to die, etc. Keep in mind, my son is in his car seat on that side of the vehicle. Quickly noticing that no one is in the front passenger seat, he proceeds to the rear, where my son is strapped into his car seat. He begins punching the window.

    I draw my P89 from it's case under the seat. I 'brandish' it (I set on the front passenger seat while in my hand, min very plain view), but do not point it at him. I just want him to know it's there. A window of broken glass falling on my son, followed by whatever he might do next... I'm quite justified.

    He backs away from the car and begins explaining how I'm not a man, a real man would get out of the car and face him 'like a man.' Really? Is that what a real man would do? I politely explain to him (yes, actually very politely, I'm not being sarcastic), that a real man doesn't have to shout and get violent and threaten harm to a toddler becasue of some very minor vehicular incident that did not even cause any damage. I told him to put his dick back in his pants and get back in his car, because his 'manly behavior' might just get him killed. My window was rolled down because I had just ordered, and I could easily have popped out and come over the top with a few rounds.

    For those not aware, the P89 holds 16 rounds in double-stack mags, and I had 4 of them. +1 in the chamber. NOBODY messes with my Little Man.

    Anyway, he saw logic. I didn't have to shoot him.

    I still find it amazing how so many try to use 'be a man' as an argument for being the opposite of one... A man uses tools to end a bad situation, not escalate it onto a brawl trying to prove something which such actions would prove the opposite of... Yet this is what those very same people accuse gun owners of being. It makes no sense at all.

    Anyway, we both got our nasty McDonald's 'food,' and were on our way. The bitch didn't follow me after leaving or any such crap.

    I didn't experience the rush of adrenaline or 'it happened so fast' feeling many people describe. It was like a moment of slow-motion clarity. In retrospect, it was as if I were under the influence of pure logic. I did what made sense and that was it. I had never run through this kind of scenario in my head before. I even made the choice that I wouldn't try to shoot through the glass without even seeming to make the choice. It all just made sense.

    Anyway, that's my story. Enjoy.
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    ixtow wrote:

    I was sitting in line at a Mcdonald's Drive thru.



    Oh man, it was easy to spot that BIG mistake Good to hear nothing bad came of that other than some adult words. Kudos to you for keeping a level head.


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    Everyone thinks they are big stuff threatening people. People need to think a tad more before letting they're jaybird head overload they're alligator mouth especially when there are kids involved. people have no respect these days what so ever...

    Damn good show my friend!

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    Glad you didn't have to kill the idiot. I'm sure the gunshot's wouldn't have been good for your baby's ears either. I totally feel your pain on people being idiots. There was no need for them to escalate the situation. If they were that concerned I could see maybe walking up to you to ask that you pull over to swap insurance information or simply inspect the car more carefully. I'll bet that they'll be more calm in future fender benders though.



    -Gruu

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    Ixtow, there is by and large a grand confusion in the male world today about what it is exactly to be a "man".

    Today's male culture, unfortunately, thinks that being a "man" means to see how many beers you can down the quickest, how loud of a fart you can muster, how many women you can have sex with, and how well you can fight with other "men". But that isn't what being a man is about.

    Being a man is about accepting responsibility, loving and caring for your one spouse, being considerate for others, and doing your best to uphold peace and logic in all situations. But somewhat above all others, it is about protecting those you love - but not in the hot-headed macho manner that so many males find themselves adopting, but rather in a sane, and rational manner where force is only applied with equal degrees until imminent threats are no longer imminent.

    It is this disparity in worldviews that has left males of today's age - especially my age group (college age to early 30's) with an identity confusion. They see one group of people (the media and their peers) telling them to be everything mentioned in the first paragraph. They also hear the "old timers" telling them (but not loudly or frequently enough) that a man is what is described in the second paragraph. For this reason, they have a quite construed worldview on what it is exactly to be a male figure, and what that entails.

    I believe it is for this reason, primarily, that the large man exited the vehicle in front of you and challenged you in a threatening, and socially irresponsible manner. He is in no way secure of himself, therefore he thrusts his insecurities onto you, in dire hopes that you will be as insecure as him, and fight him, wherein he hopes that he will be victorious - thus signifying to his female counterpart that he is a man, and justifying his existence in his own mind.

    That might be reading into it a bit too much, but the basic principle is there. It's the same reason why you get "tough guy" looks from "bro's" wearing backwards baseball caps and polo shirts when you open carry. They clearly don't feel physically threatened by you having a gun in plain sight, merely socially and emotionally threatened. They are not secure enough in their own manhood (because they do not understand what manhood is about) so they must try to justify themselves by acting tough towards a guy with a gun -- in their own minds establishing dominance over you.

    I am thoroughly glad that nothing came of this instance, and I am more pleased that you know what it is to be a man - and protect your son - with sound logic and quick decisions. I salute you sir, and may you teach such values to your son so that he may one day be able to know what it is to be a man as well.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    From a strictly anthropological standpoint, the difference between men and animals is that men use tools, animals don't.

    The big boyfriend was acting like an animal, trying to use his hands to do a job (defend/avenge his girlfriend) better accomplished by the use of a tool.

    The OP being a man, used a tool with great effectiveness and no bruising to his hands to actually accomplish the task (defend his child).

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    I don't have it happen hardly at all (most non existant), but when confronted by someone with an attitude.....I totally ignore and move on.

    I then grin. Because *I* allowed them to live just a little longer, and though I may never be thanked.....*I* know it is true. And this is the truth I can back up.

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Well said Kenosis! +1. And good on ya Ixtow! My ole Gramps, God rest his soul, always told me that a man's a man that looks a man right between the eyes. And I've come to using the phrase "Don't make me get ugly, you won't like me very much when I get ugly."
    A LARGE fella can spook me also, I'm not a big guy myself. And while I've been trained in martial arts and have a reasonable confidence that I can defend myself in that area, well ya know, I just don't heal as fast as I used to. So my response to big ole Mr. Dumbass probably would have been quite the same.
    Keep your powder dry!
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

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    ixtow When you say your opponent was obese how obese do you mean because if he were that obese I would expect that the activity of getting out of the car would leave him too out of breath to even talk to you let alone attack your car. Now I don't mean to call BS on your story but this definatly doesn't add up:P.



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    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    At least he was smart enough to know he wasn't "man enough" to stop a bullet with his muscles.

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    Kenosis wrote:
    Today's male culture, unfortunately, thinks that being a "man" means....how loud of a fart you can muster, .
    If this were true, my wife would definitely be more of a man than I am.

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    Nozoki wrote:
    Kenosis wrote:
    Today's male culture, unfortunately, thinks that being a "man" means....how loud of a fart you can muster, .
    If this were true, my wife would definitely be more of a man than I am.
    That right there is disgusting.

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    Ahhh, the old "being a man" talk.... I remembersitting with my mother in law and her new husband, she was talking about men and how your're not a real man until your 30, her husband had just turned 29, oops.... I laughed soooo hard at her, it took her a few minutes to figure out why I was laughing so hard and then the age changed.

    Back on topic, way to go with the self control!! I think you did a great job.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    In my not so humble and politically incorrect opinion...

    A human male, regardless of his chronological age, is not a "man" until he understands that his ego is not the most important thing in the world.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Nozoki wrote:
    Kenosis wrote:
    Today's male culture, unfortunately, thinks that being a "man" means....how loud of a fart you can muster, .
    If this were true, my wife would definitely be more of a man than I am.
    A few weeks back, my wife scooted her kitchen chair across the linoleum, and it sounded like... well, it "ripped".

    From the living room, I shouted, "Honey!" in an accusatory tone. She yelled back, "I moved my chair!"

    I said, "I bet you did! You almost moved the sofa in here!"

    :celebrate



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    McX
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    Regular Member Carcharodon's Avatar
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    McX wrote:
    My wife told me girls don't fart or burp. They complain or they would explode!
    That's what I was taught as well!
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Decoligny wrote:
    From a strictly anthropological standpoint, the difference between men and animals is that men use tools, animals don't.

    The big boyfriend was acting like an animal, trying to use his hands to do a job (defend/avenge his girlfriend) better accomplished by the use of a tool.

    The OP being a man, used a tool with great effectiveness and no bruising to his hands to actually accomplish the task (defend his child).
    +1
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
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    Carcharodon wrote:
    McX wrote:
    My wife told me girls don't fart or burp. They complain or they would explode!
    That's what I was taught as well!
    Dr. Demento taught us that.

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    ixtow wrote:
    I didn't experience the rush of adrenaline or 'it happened so fast' feeling many people describe. It was like a moment of slow-motion clarity. In retrospect, it was as if I were under the influence of pure logic. I did what made sense and that was it. I had never run through this kind of scenario in my head before. I even made the choice that I wouldn't try to shoot through the glass without even seeming to make the choice. It all just made sense.

    Anyway, that's my story. Enjoy.
    That "clarity" was an adrenaline rush. When your mind goes into no-**** fight or die mode your senses heighten and everything slows down becoming clear. It's common in combat. Your mind's going to do one of two things, go into fight mode, which is what you experienced, or flight mode where you become scared, start shaking, and try to get away. Both are related to adrenaline.

    Other than that, good story. I would've blasted him as soon as he went near my son and started punching at the window, but that's me and we they expanded the law a couple years after your story. I think the jury would've been on your side. "He was going after my baby." Pretty sure you would've gotten a "not guilty" verdict, even in a liberal county.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    ixtow wrote:
    I still find it amazing how so many try to use 'be a man' as an argument for being the opposite of one...* A man uses tools to end a bad situation, not escalate it onto a brawl trying to prove something which such actions would prove the opposite of...* Yet this is what those very same people accuse gun owners of being.* It makes no sense at all.
    I've always found this amazing myself. It's entirely irrational.

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    This "macho man" attitude that I've seen is also quite silly and counter-productive. Several people I've come across have said, "I don't need a gun. I know how to fight. Tools are for wimps. I'll fight with my bare hands." Tactically this is stupid and unrealistic. Hand-to-hand combat is likely to be more deadly than with weapons because you are in very close proximity to your attacker. It is easier to be beaten to deaththan shot to death from 100 feet away. As to the "bare hands" argument, what are you going to do when Mr. Bad guy pulls a knife and his friends are right behind you? A lot of people out there think that masculinity means "being tough" but they don't understand what being tough means. Tough is not going around like a gangbanger bullying people. To borrow someone else's quote, the proper way to behave is "to talk softly but carry a big stick." I have nothing to prove but a hell of a lot to protect.



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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    You can be all macho and manly, basically your saying "If you don't do it my way, its unfair"

    Fu(k that, I'm hitting you with a chair. I don't care if its macho or not i'm the one still standing.

    Being a man means accepting the fact the world isn't fair.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Exactly. Acting tough and being tough are two different things. I have nothing to prove but a lot to protect. I couldn't care less how strangers perceive me anyway except that they leave me alone. I'm not big and strong and don't generally look intimidating. In fact something kind of funny happened one time where I was going for a walk late at night and some creep in a car apparently mistook me for a woman due to my hairstyle. The weirdo was whistling from his car and making gestures. When I turned a corner and the firearm was at a viewable angle, suddenly the engine raced and the guy was gone. Again, I talk/walk/act softly but carry a bigstick (Glock 19) because in the end, who is ultimately the one receiving the stupid sign.



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    You trapped in a vehicle, defending a child against someone physically larger whos out of his mind with rage. Id say you handled it "textbook."

    How do you know HE doesnt have a gun?

    " This "macho man" attitude that I've seen is also quite silly and counter-productive."

    Foolish statement. Made of ignorance, I assume.
    Me, I'd "show" then drop the mag in a pocket and get out. But thats just me.... (and a few dozen friends) ESPECIALLY with witnesses. Witnesses to him threatening me, grabing me, then me popping both his eardrums. Eyes, ears and throat are very easy targets for one finger.

    I dont necessarily recomend others do that. Im trained for it. Neither do I recommend others not be so trained.

    People in that attackers mental state are clumsy and slow, especially the big ones.
    Never mind that they have no real training in how to fight, or they wouldnt act that way.

    "Tactically this is stupid and unrealistic. "

    Think so? Heres your "un-realistic."

    Ones I've taken on without a gun: (or actually they were stupid enough to take me on)

    * Car full of teenage boys driving 50-70 mph in a 20 mph zone in attempted vehicular assault on a teenage girl. I blocked the street with my vehicle, and one smart a** got out of the back seat and threated me and i told him "bring it on, boy" and he got back in the car. He didnt go in the ambulance. Sherriff Deputy found them and read them the Riot Act.

    * county tough man contest winner who attacked a friend, Tough man contest winner hit me upside the head several times, and I just stood there and looked at him, then kicked him in the stomach. That one was about a draw. We were both drunker than monkies... Cop was PISSED that I passed the field test, he KNEW I was toasted. Its all about TRAINING. Did I mention that was AFTER my friend had accidentaly hit me with his CAR in an attempt to run the attacker down?

    * sexual predator cornered me in a more or less remote part of a Public Park. He trapped me in and grabbed my crotch, I grabbed him by the throat. He gave up, especially after me telling him I was about to beat the f*** out of him.

    * some idiot at a County Fair in Ohio threatened to do a flying kick and knock me out. He did. I moved a foot back, He landed in a heap, then crawled away. I laugh. I think one of my friends put him up to it.

    * some other idiot came through my drivers door to assault me at night at a skating rink, I kicked him in the left knee. Was told I broke it, but s*** happens.

    * some 'nother idiot attacked me in traffic through drivers side open window, I grabbed both his arms, dug fingernails in, spun around in the seat and almost took his head off with a right foot. Realizing he didnt have a chance against two feet through a window, he left.

    Shall I go on?? And on?

    YOU WANNA TELL ME ABOUT UNREALISTIC? Them aint TV stories.

    The critical point is, didnt NEED one. Not every situation is that simple.

    Are YOU, Mr/Mrs Gun Owner, going to draw a gun on EVERY threat? If I did, Id probably be in PRISON right now.

    You wanna talk about STUPID and MACHO? Meet every assault with deadly force. The JUDGE WILL LOVE THAT ONE. Your name will be Prison b'yatch.

    Its a basic premise of self defense/law to meet force with force. This is an ESPECIALLY important topic considering most people are trained with firearms to only shoot center-mass/head kill shots. Its ingrained training even I struggle with. I was training in the house for "move into a doorway -quick draw - acquire - fire" at the back door. 1-1/2 - 2 seconds from concealed draw - lift shirt, cock, aim, verify target, click- 2 seconds. Ahead of time, Id picked out a lower, non lethal target (doorknob) and was disturbed to realize that in each practice, I instinctively targeted the HEAD (door chain). thats a DEAD attacker. I dont like that. Simple B&E does not automatically equal DEAD.

    Sidebar: Had a green belt student who didn't think his training was adequate/would work. He was actually depressed and thinking about quitting training because of all the hard work he was doing in training that he didn't think was useful.

    He came to class one night just beaming with pride. Seems some idiot confronted him with a knife. The lowly green belt student took the knife away from him. I says "I told you so!"

    EDIT.

    I JUST GOT DONE POSTING THIS RANT, and this shows up on Seattle PI:

    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/41279...tml?source=rss

    See what I mean about instinctive center mass shot? Attacker almost killed for SIMPLE (aggrivated?) ASSAULT. Not like he didnt have some response coming, but....

    Shoot him in the foot first.

    But this STUPID woman and her family couldnt resist escalating the situation by making obscene gestures and saying stupid things in return, instead of calmly warning the attacker she was armed and getting the bus driver involved.

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