• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Genesee Valley Mall

David in MI

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
50
Location
Davison, Michigan, USA
imported post

DrTodd wrote:
packinheatmiinoh wrote:
I shop at GVM frequently with my teenagers, I am ALWAYS OC'ing, I have never been stopped or asked about it, The law clearly states that they can stop you from carrying, but it must be clearly posted over the entrance doors, which it is not, I would respect their policy by not shopping there, but since I have never had an instance I will continue to shop, I can always change my mind though, The only thing they can do is ask you to leave, which I would do peacefully with my teenagers, and my money.

The law clearly states that if the premises are "An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals", then CC is prohibited. (See MCL 28.425o)
This section makes it "illegal" to carry a concealed pistol. It does not make OC or the possession of a pistol "illegal". If you are CCing and they have met the aforementioned requirement AND the facility is one used for "enetertainment", then you would be violating the law and could be charged with "carrying concealed in a pistol-free zone" whether you were asked to leave or not.

This does NOT mean that a private property owner who wishes to forbid firearms needs to follow this in order to prohibit firearms, nor would such a sign necessarily prohibit OCing a firearm if you did not see the sign. A sign would function the same as an owner asking you to leave if you are carrying. It would be easier for the owner to enforce the prohibition if the sign was clearly placed over all entrances, but there is no requirement that they must do this. If you did not see the sign, you have not been notified. When you do see the sign, and can easily see the prohibition on the sign, then you must leave or face a charge of trespassing. Also, if you are told to leave because the owner (or owner's agent) claims it's posted, you must likewise leave or face a charge of trespass.
Does GVM qualify as an "entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2500...?" I really doubt this applies to GVM. I don't believe you could stretch the definition of "entertainment" and make it apply to shopping. Additionally, I don't believe the mall seats anywhere near that many people. If both could be said to be true then I am in big trouble when I go to my local grocery store... :D
 

SpringerXDacp

New member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
3,341
Location
Burton, Michigan
imported post

David in MI wrote:
DrTodd wrote:
packinheatmiinoh wrote:
I shop at GVM frequently with my teenagers, I am ALWAYS OC'ing, I have never been stopped or asked about it, The law clearly states that they can stop you from carrying, but it must be clearly posted over the entrance doors, which it is not, I would respect their policy by not shopping there, but since I have never had an instance I will continue to shop, I can always change my mind though, The only thing they can do is ask you to leave, which I would do peacefully with my teenagers, and my money.

The law clearly states that if the premises are "An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals", then CC is prohibited. (See MCL 28.425o)
This section makes it "illegal" to carry a concealed pistol. It does not make OC or the possession of a pistol "illegal". If you are CCing and they have met the aforementioned requirement AND the facility is one used for "enetertainment", then you would be violating the law and could be charged with "carrying concealed in a pistol-free zone" whether you were asked to leave or not.

This does NOT mean that a private property owner who wishes to forbid firearms needs to follow this in order to prohibit firearms, nor would such a sign necessarily prohibit OCing a firearm if you did not see the sign. A sign would function the same as an owner asking you to leave if you are carrying. It would be easier for the owner to enforce the prohibition if the sign was clearly placed over all entrances, but there is no requirement that they must do this. If you did not see the sign, you have not been notified. When you do see the sign, and can easily see the prohibition on the sign, then you must leave or face a charge of trespassing. Also, if you are told to leave because the owner (or owner's agent) claims it's posted, you must likewise leave or face a charge of trespass.
Does GVM qualify as an "entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2500...?" I really doubt this applies to GVM. I don't believe you could stretch the definition of "entertainment" and make it apply to shopping. Additionally, I don't believe the mall seats anywhere near that many people. If both could be said to be true then I am in big trouble when I go to my local grocery store... :D

David, I thinkthe point DrTodd is trying to get across is that entertainment facilities, by statue, must be "clearly posted" not other private properties such as GVM.

Private properties, other than entertainment facilities,are not required by law to post "no firearms" signs in order for them to ask you to leave the premises.
 

David in MI

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
50
Location
Davison, Michigan, USA
imported post


David, I thinkthe point DrTodd is trying to get across is that entertainment facilities, by statue, must be "clearly posted" not other private properties such as GVM.

Private properties, other than entertainment facilities,are not required by law to post "no firearms" signs in order for them to ask you to leave the premises.
That makes sense. See what happens when you skim a post?
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
imported post

WARCHILD wrote:
I wonder if my Glock/Nokia cellphone would be banned at GVM?
eta: the safety release is...911 :celebrate



Nice... "What firearm, officer... it's a phone!" Perhaps if it recorded "Voice notes" I could have a "triple use" option when dealing with the local LEOS.:cool:
 
Top