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Thread: County not allowing volunteers to carry.

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    I am part of a volunteer group that is run by the county sheriffs office. They made it so we are not allowed to carry while volunteering. Is this allowed by the state law?



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    Which Sheriff's Office and volunteering to do what?

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    I would rather not say county but is is search and rescue.

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    I was thinking about joining Whatcom's unit. Seriously they want to disarm you while you are looking for a missing person in the "wild" woods?

    Ask the Sheriff if he can legally stop you and to cite his reasons.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    The sheriff is the one who personally came to a meeting and told us. His reasoning was that the county would be liable if anything happened. Also stating that we are not trained in using firearms as much as a deputy, so we are not qualified to carry.

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    I am going to guess they can forbid it just as any employer can restrict carry while at work. Whether you are being paid or not, if you are working for someone they have the power to set rules to follow. Your options are to follow the rules or volunteer somewhere else.

    While the government is restricted in doing things to citizens, as an employer, the government has the same right to make rules for employees. It is not the same as the agency limiting your rights as a citizen, it is now a different relationship.

    I have a CPL, I passed the necessary background checks for it and additional ones for my employment, however since I have no badge, I am not allowed to carry a gun in my employers building, even though a citizen can.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    imboostedru wrote:
    Also stating that we are not trained in using firearms as much as a deputy, so we are not qualified to carry.
    Tell him he's right we are better than the deputies......lol
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    That may be very true for some of us.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I don't know what the deputy statistics for you county are but in general, gun owners are better than LEO statistically.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    The best part is everyone was against this whole thing except the sheriff himself. His only defense was they would be liable. We have a few more like, we are out in the woods with all of the wildlife, not to mention all the drug labs and everything else they have out there. What is says to me personally is that the sheriff himself cares more about his political views than the safety of the people who are trying t help him.

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    Concealed means concealed. It's not against the law.

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    True but the sheriff already informed him they are not allowed.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Dr. Fresh wrote:
    Concealed means concealed. It's not against the law.
    I like the way you think. What could they do if I had to use it while on a search? Kick me out?Oh well, I still got my life I guess.

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    SmartCarry is your friend. Unless they wand you, nobody will know.

    Charles

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    hmmmmm, I had one of those. I wonder where it went?

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    I'd tell them that I guess they don't want volunteers that bad. I'd want to do it, but I'd refuse to be out in the middle of the woods unarmed. Too many critters running around to run into.

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    no search and rescue can carry while doing their duties

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    Boo Boo wrote:
    no search and rescue can carry while doing their duties
    This is correct. However, I am not at all sure this applies to volunteers, at least legally.

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    Boo Boo wrote:
    no search and rescue can carry while doing their duties
    WA state legal citation please?

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    I had the same experience with Fish and Game while working toward my master hunter. As a volunteer, you are considered to be an "employee" of the state or county as the case may be, because you have completed a form for insurance coverage if you are injured while volunteering.

    M1Gunner, this could also apply to the litter patrol.

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    Carry something small and completely concealable if it makes you feel better and just keep quiet about it. IMO it is extremely irresponsible to send people out into the woods with no means of protection. At worst you will get fired from a job you don't get paid for but that would mean you had to actually use your gun for protection....

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    Well, just dont expect to carry if you join the Dive Rescue team !

    My father founded the Whatcom County Dive Rescue in the 90's because they didn't have one. I think they relied on Skagit back then, but I am not sure I was only a kid. Nevertheless, the Whatcom team started out with a modified ambulance and a small boat. I hear they have amphib now. I used to hang out with the group when they did training and some missions. I carried the tanks andTank-Boy was my name!!!

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    If you are working for Explorer Search and Rescue (ESAR), Mountain Rescue, the 4x4 Team or any of the others that are issued a Department of Emergency Management card, then you are covered under certain insurances provided by the state while in route to, during, and on your way home from performance of your volunteer activites. If you are coveredunder state insurance, butNOT a fully-commissioned law enforcement officer, then why wouldthe state want to pay for the liability of"allowing" you to be out and armed. They make the policy to forbid it for the insurance/liability concerns involved.Although, if you have a CPL, then concealed is concealed. Its up to you whether or not you want to follow"policy," but if you are "found out" during the performance of your duties, then you will likely be compelled to leave the organization.

    And for what it's worth, I'm ex-ESAR.Great organization to teach youth responsibility, leadership and how to really help people.

    -G20

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    Regular Member Johnny Law's Avatar
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    imboostedru wrote:
    The sheriff is the one who personally came to a meeting and told us. His reasoning was that the county would be liable if anything happened. Also stating that we are not trained in using firearms as much as a deputy, so we are not qualified to carry.
    Most SAR teams are controlled and overseen by a Sheriff's Dept. If a civilian should wind up in a shooting while volunteering, the liability would fall directly back on the Dept. The defense attorney (of the victim)would have a heyday with that in court;

    "You allowed a citizen volunteer with unknown abilities and training to carry a gun while under your direct supervision?" Reckless, irresponsible, and liable are words the Dept. would hear. Then comes the big payout (everyone knows that a Dept. has much deeper pockets than an individual. Why in the world would any Dept take that risk on a complete unknown. It's a poor gamble at best.

    Probably the worst that would happen to you if you did cc and got caught would be to be removed from SAR. Not the end of the world, but if you had any visions of ever working for, or with any Cop shop, you could kiss them goodbye.
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

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