First time OC experience and questions

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Well, I did it, OC'd for the first time. I went to 4 places.

First Gander Mt in Waukesha(possibly friendly territory), asked for assistance locating an item, checked out, nary a look.

Next Target in Waukesha, asked for bugspray, checked out (cashier eyeballed my glock), and was out without incident.

Third Kohls in Waukesha, bought a wallet that I've been needing.

Fourth Barnes and Noble in Wauwatosa @ Mayfairlooking for a book on CD.

At each place I interacted with at least 2 employees and all were as helpful as always. I didn't even really see anyone look at me strange (I was trying to walk normally like I usually would). Most of the places were quite busy and at least a couple hundred people saw me tonight.

Overall it was fun, a little nerveracking, but I can see how that will ease with time.

Questions: I only had the glock in condition 3, I plan on going condition 1 in the future, just getting my steps down.

1. I exit the car (case is in backseat of a 2 door), open case, slide mag in, holster gun. Is that good form, or should I be doing this out of the back? IIRC, it is OK to have a cased, unloaded gun anywhere in the car.

2. Getting back in, I unholster, drop the mag, place gun and mag back into case and snap it shut while I'm standing with the door open. Also, is this good form?

Thanks!

Ted


ps. I was also dressed in docker type pants and a collared golf polo, so was looking relatively nice, i'm sure at least someone said to themselves, oh, he's just a cop, but no one asked. I did see a small gruop of kids that were being loud, quiet down immensly as I walked by, not sure if it was me or not.

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Be careful at Mayfair. If the mall ninjas see you they'll either kick you out or call the police as they have a No Firearms policy.

As for gun placement in the car I'd recommend keeping it in the trunk. The laws are fuzzy where this is concerned and the trunk is imo the best place to have it.

I carry a Glock in condition 3 as well. I do this so I don't make the rather familiar sound of racking the slide every time I enter or exit the car. Just alter your draw to include a slide rack. Make sure to practice this (gun empty unless you're at a range that let's you do holster draws).

Other than that, gratz on your first time!

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I looked for any signs with the policybefore entering barnes, didn't see any, maybe I didn't look close enough? Or, maybe I should just know better The employees at barnes had no problems helping me out or chatting with me for a moment (they were having computer issues tonight).The trunk might be the best place, I have a hatch back, so it's a pretty big open areathat lots of peeps can see. In my backseat, my unloading/loading is somewhat under the radar as I'm just standing with my door open rather than arming myself with my hatch up in the air. It was still fun though! Have others had runins with the mall ninjas? I think I saw another post about southridge, but read through the Milwaukee county posts rather fast and could have missed those details.

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Good Job! I'm glad you decided to take the plunge. It only gets easier on the nerves and pretty soon you'll almost feel wierd without your piece.

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I think you are right. I just have to be careful as I'm 2 blocks inside the good ole city of Milwaukee (for the time being). I already have the school zones printed out. I'm trying to find some info on how to transport within the state OK. I could have sworn my ccw teacher (ppa-wi.com Michael Bender, who is awesome), stated that you can have a handgun, unloaded, cased, with a mag next to it, in the front seat. It's just when you go out of state when you need to have them separated and out of reach.

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svelectric wrote:

1. I exit the car (case is in backseat of a 2 door), open case, slide mag in, holster gun. Is that good form, or should I be doing this out of the back? IIRC, it is OK to have a cased, unloaded gun anywhere in the car.

2. Getting back in, I unholster, drop the mag, place gun and mag back into case and snap it shut while I'm standing with the door open. Also, is this good form?

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Your current operating procedure is in violation of WI statutes, You can and will be nailed for that procedure as you explained it if caught or admitted itto a LEO.

Whenever a firearm is in or on a vehicle, it must be fully enclosed in a case with no ammunition in the firearm . So to adhere tightly to the laws, the entire case must be removed from the vehicle, thenset on the ground, or balanced in your hands before opening the case or loading the firearm.
When you go to put it back in the car, the entire case must be removed from the vehicle, and the firearm unloaded andfully encased (meaning all closure mechanisms must be engaged) before placing it back in or on the vehicle.

if you meet a cop with a hard-on for O-C, and he sees you,or if you admit to your current procedure, you will get a ticket and most likely be found guilty in court.

It is a common up this way for seeingsomeone sliding an unloadedfirearm into a case that is on the tailgate of a truck, or in a case that is still in the truck. And many have been nailed for it.

Please be careful, there are a myriad of conflicting firearms laws in WI, many of which make no sense at all.

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Doug Huffman wrote:

With a closed case containing an unloaded weapon in your hands you have violated ss 941.23. From the annotations

The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden. State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).

http://www.vimeo.com/6115265

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Basically, I have found you have to break the law in order to follow the law. If you break something small in order to follow something bigger, I don't see how a cop could in good conscience give you a citation. Then again, there are cops that I don't know if they have a conscience, and there's those that have a bad one. Those are exceptions to the norm, but still exist.

Oh, and congrats on your first time! As others will tell you, it gets easier all the time.

Last night I was at Sam's and somebody came up to me and asked "Is anybody giving you any trouble?" and if it were a month ago I might have panicked and said something stupid, but last night I just replied, "No, why would they?" and we talked for about 5 minutes about non-resident CCW permits (he had just gotten his from Utah in the mail that week).

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Congratulations SV! And thank-you! More people need to OC more often. Its the only way to normalize it. The 'tension' eases after 3 or 4 times OC'ing. It will become very comfortable.

As for my procedure. I drive a crew-cab SuperDuty pick up, so I have the case in the back seat. I open the back door, open the case. With the case sitting on the floor of the backseat, open it, remove my gun (I usually OC a SW 637 Airweight revolver). Hold the gun in one hand and load it with the other and click it into my retention holster.

When I return, I unholster, open the cylinder, drop out all 5 rounds, drop them in the case, close the cylinder and then set the gun in the case and then close the case.

I'm SURE someone will come on here and try to muddy the waters and confuse you about how to conform to the letter of the law, (which I'm not sure if you can) but I'm 100% comfortable with my procedure.

As for paranoia. I'll be honest... If I took my case out, set it ON THE GROUND every damn time to load and unload who's to say that wouldn't attract a sensitive liberal gronola eater's attention who calls the police and says "a man was standing there loading a gun", and a cop "hell bent" on busting an OC'er would call that disorderly conduct and claim I was "brandishing". You will always be able to come up with paranoid scenarios where you "just can't win". I don't deal with that bull$hit.

What if someone has bad knees and can't get down on the f'ing ground every time they want to load and unload. Its rediculous and while I have NO faith in the police I have JUST enough faith in the court system to use my method with the confidence no court would find me guilty of it in the exceptionally rare event that I would get arrested for something pathetic like that.

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if you meet a cop with a hard-on for O-C, and he sees you,or if you admit to your current procedure, you will get a ticket and most likely be found guilty in court.

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Most traffic cops don't even know the letter of the DNR regulations. Lets be real here. Cops only KNOW a couple laws. Speeding, DUI and other traffic stuff. Anything else they'd have to go to huddle with higher ups and a rule book to come up with.

Cops are not law experts. Hell, they are usually pretty ignorant of all law except traffic law.

I'd worry more about an uppidty warden seeing you during hunting season setting a hard case on the tailgate and placing a gun in it and closing it. So yeah, in 10 inches of powdery snow you are suppose to set your hardcase down in the snow open it, (let all the snow fall in it) set your gun in it and close it before you put it in the vehicle... Whatever... Welcome to retarded wisconsin, I'll take my chances.

But it does demonstrate a few obvious points to be made. NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE. Don't tell the police what your procedure is. DON'T tell the police what you "did". Say "I have nothing to say without my attorney".

I stand with my door open and back to the world. You'd have to have binoculars and x-ray vision to see what I ACTUALLY did with my gun and case. THAT protects me.

And if the cops come up and ask... I say NOTHING.

If you are THAT worried about it, when you go to case/uncase, non-challantly look around first to make sure a cop isn't STANDING there looking over your shoulder. I prefer the cover of my vehicle door/roof/body blocking(or for other people trunk/lid/body blocking) so that no one else and even surveillance cameras can't see what I'm doing. And then SAY NOTHING. 80+ percent of people incriminate themselves or something like that...

If you get arrested (highly unlikely) you can discuss with your lawyer what you did.

Hell, tell them you threw the case up in the air, threw your gun into it and your guardian angel closed it before it landed on the floor of your trunk. That seems to be the only legal way to do it.

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UCP posted my http://www.vimeo.com/6115265 demonstration proving that Wisconsin Statutes will fork you just like a snake.

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svelectric wrote:

I looked for any signs with the policybefore entering barnes, didn't see any, maybe I didn't look close enough? Or, maybe I should just know better The employees at barnes had no problems helping me out or chatting with me for a moment (they were having computer issues tonight).The trunk might be the best place, I have a hatch back, so it's a pretty big open areathat lots of peeps can see. In my backseat, my unloading/loading is somewhat under the radar as I'm just standing with my door open rather than arming myself with my hatch up in the air. It was still fun though! Have others had runins with the mall ninjas? I think I saw another post about southridge, but read through the Milwaukee county posts rather fast and could have missed those details.

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We have a mall here in Onalaska. There is not a single sign at any of the doors saying 'No Firearms.' I check every time I go there. I go to their website, and I can't find it anywhere on there. Then some guys go there to eat one day while carrying, and do some shopping afterward. One of them was escorted out because of the 'No Firearm' policy...but to know about this you either have to carry and get in trouble for it...or go to the security and ask for a copy of the policies. Pretty stupid...least the security was nice to him and didn't do anything but walk him out of the store, while having a friendly chat.

I'd assume because Wisconsin doesn't really have carry laws (just a lack of laws), so places don't think they need to post. Whereas states with CC/OC laws and permits, they know to post signs.

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hugh jarmis wrote

SNIP If you are THAT worried about it, when you go to case/uncase, nonchalantly look around first to make sure a cop isn't STANDING there looking over your shoulder. I prefer the cover of my vehicle door/roof/body blocking (or for other people trunk/lid/body blocking) so that no one else and even surveillance cameras can't see what I'm doing. And then SAY NOTHING. 80+ percent of people incriminate themselves or something like that...

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+1 Good advice here. I do this when I exit my car and as I am walking back toward it. But if you're going to do this don't be obvious about it. It's like in school when you've done something wrong and human nature tells you to look around to see if anyone saw you do it. My mother is a teacher and has busted many kids because she caught them doing the "Guilty Look" and knew to come over and see what they did. It's the same way with cops. You may not be doing anything wrong but if you look guilty or act suspicious you'll draw attention to yourself.

I keep my gun in the trunk mainly because if I'm pulled over for a traffic stop and the officer sees the gun in the cab the will get all curious about it and just waste my time.

As for talking to the cops there are a few vids floating around here that you should watch. It is better to say nothing than to lie to a cop. Never lie to an officer but realize that they are under no obligation to tell you the truth. Cops can lie to you but you cannot lie to them.

As to mall policies, Brookfield Square and Mayfair both have No Firearms policies. I have not seen a sign at Southridge but I'm sure they have one or will make one when they see someone carrying. I was in the for about 10 mins one day and didn't see any mall ninjas so I didn't get harassed.

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Doug, watched your video. Very well done. Unlike your typical post, its clear and concise and complete for the lay-person.

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GlockMeisterG21 wrote:

As for talking to the cops there are a few vids floating around here that you should watch. It is better to say nothing than to lie to a cop. Never lie to an officer but realize that they are under no obligation to tell you the truth. Cops can lie to you but you cannot lie to them.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJpqk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

Both are a must watch

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Sounds like I'm not too far out of spec on what others are doing. I dont' like the idea of pulling the case out of the car to put the gun in, when I can simply remove mag, open case, place unloaded gun in case and close it promptly. Thanks for the links as well!

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svelectric wrote:

Sounds like I'm not too far out of spec on what others are doing. I dont' like the idea of pulling the case out of the car to put the gun in, when I can simply remove mag, open case, place unloaded gun in case and close it promptly. Thanks for the links as well!

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I'd prefer to be able to do that as well, but for a split second you have an uncased firearm in your car.

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You're right Logan. I'd rather avoid any violations, etc. I think if I'm careful, etc it will be better to be somewhat hidden (especially if the case is right at the edge, I'm not crawling into the car with it), than making a big display outside of my car for all to see. Either way you're screwed with WI laws...

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svelectric wrote:

You're right Logan. I'd rather avoid any violations, etc. I think if I'm careful, etc it will be better to be somewhat hidden (especially if the case is right at the edge, I'm not crawling into the car with it), than making a big display outside of my car for all to see. Either way you're screwed with WI laws...

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Yes we are...

I keep mine in the trunk...but could pull it out of the trunk and then off to the side of your vehicle with a door open...i don't know...no matter what you do it doesn't look good from an anti-gun persons view. I just hate having to holster up outside of a store. Wish I could do it at home

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Agreed about wanting to do it at home. I was in Nevada for a few days last week and was able to open carry all over and without having to do anything when getting in/out of a car. It was very convenient and much safer imho. Maybe in WI it will get changed someday...