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Thread: Kentucky Fish and Wildlife New Carry Regulations

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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    New rules for carrying while hunting in Kentucky. How could Fish and Wildlife stop open carry since it is guaranteed by the Commonwealth constitution



    August 25, 2009 Contact: Hayley Lynch

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 1-800-858-1549, ext. 4493



    Frankfort, KY – The Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources is clarifying hunting equipment regulations for hunters who hold valid concealed carry deadly weapon permits. Under the Kentucky concealed carry deadly weapon law, KRS 237.110, holders of these permits are permitted to carry firearms during archery-only or archery/crossbow hunting seasons, and to carry firearms and ammunition that may be contrary to hunting equipment caliber or ammunition requirements. However, it is illegal for any person to take game with firearms during seasons when firearms are prohibited, or with any equipment listed as illegal for taking game.

    This clarification is available as a one-page supplement to the 2009-10 Kentucky Hunting & Trapping Guide at fw.ky.gov. The supplement provides an updated page 3 to the guide, which hunters can print out and place inside their copy. Hunters who have not yet picked up their copy of this year’s hunting guide can print the updated guide in its entirety at fw.ky.gov.

    Hunters who do not hold valid concealed carry deadly weapon permits must abide by the equipment regulations exactly as they appear in each section of the 2009-10 Kentucky Hunting & Trapping Guide. Those with valid permits should note the exception when reviewing regulations regarding legal hunting equipment for all game, including deer, turkey, elk, bear, small game and furbearer species.


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    I don't agree with the way it was. If you were in the woods to hunt during archery, black powder season, they prohibited any type of firearm carry. I don't know for certain but think, if you get a hunting permit you are agreeing to their rules.

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    KY-RN-G wrote:
    I don't agree with the way it was. If you were in the woods to hunt during archery, black powder season, they prohibited any type of firearm carry. I don't know for certain but think, if you get a hunting permit you are agreeing to their rules.
    They can not prohibit what the Commonwealth constitutionally guarantees. Permit or not for hunting, the right to carry a firearm openly is protected.
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    I must agree with hot rod on this one. You should be able to carry open or cc.

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    From Holland v Commonwealth "If the gun is worn outside the jacket or shirt in full view, no one can question the wearer's right so to do..."

    I understand when I purchase a hunting license, I'm agreeing to the laws, etc. that the Fish and Game control, but not the right to open carry a firearm...

    I'm with hotrod, there is the KY Constitution AND court decisions backing up the right to OC.

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    I agree also. I would rather fight that battle with a state trooper or local leo more than a Game Warden. Has anyone here ran into this issue in the past?

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    KY-RN-G wrote:
    I agree also. I would rather fight that battle with a state trooper or local leo more than a Game Warden. Has anyone here ran into this issue in the past?
    I would battle anyone who tries to impose their views on my rights. I have never had any problem with anyone over my right to carry the way I choose within the Commonwealth. And I don't expect to have any.
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    Ok if that is the case how can they control what types of guns are on the water ie lakes. They told me on Lake Cumberland that i could not have a pistol that fired a solid round. How is that so? Thats from a Fish and wildlife officer

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    rescue743 wrote:
    Ok if that is the case how can they control what types of guns are on the water ie lakes. They told me on Lake Cumberland that i could not have a pistol that fired a solid round. How is that so? Thats from a Fish and wildlife officer
    Here are my thoughts on this. It seems to me that SOME LEO's from all fields do notKNOW all the statutes regarding firearms use/possession. But they BELIEVE that what they say goes, no matter what. Did you ask why or what statute backs up their claim?

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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    rescue743 wrote:
    Ok if that is the case how can they control what types of guns are on the water ie lakes. They told me on Lake Cumberland that i could not have a pistol that fired a solid round. How is that so? Thats from a Fish and wildlife officer
    Firearms are not prohibited from Lake Cumberland. The only place that a weapon is prohibited is the dam and other buildings owned or controlled by Corps of Engineers. I carry at Cumberland every weekend I am there and that is usually about 45 out of 52 weeks.
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    Like I said in a previous post, I think some of the LEO's out there make up their own rules and believe that the public will just say 'Yes Sir' and just get in line. Either that or some are seriously uneducated about the statutes.

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    hotrod wrote:
    New rules for carrying while hunting in Kentucky. How could Fish and Wildlife stop open carry since it is guaranteed by the Commonwealth constitution



    August 25, 2009 Contact: Hayley Lynch

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 1-800-858-1549, ext. 4493



    Frankfort, KY – The Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources is clarifying hunting equipment regulations for hunters who hold valid concealed carry deadly weapon permits. Under the Kentucky concealed carry deadly weapon law, KRS 237.110, holders of these permits are permitted to carry concealed firearms during archery-only or archery/crossbow hunting seasons, and to carry concealed firearms and ammunition that may be contrary to hunting equipment caliber or ammunition requirements. However, it is illegal for any person to take game with firearms during seasons when firearms are prohibited, or with any equipment listed as illegal for taking game.

    This clarification is available as a one-page supplement to the 2009-10 Kentucky Hunting & Trapping Guide at fw.ky.gov. The supplement provides an updated page 3 to the guide, which hunters can print out and place inside their copy. Hunters who have not yet picked up their copy of this year’s hunting guide can print the updated guide in its entirety at fw.ky.gov.

    Hunters who do not hold valid concealed carry deadly weapon permits must abide by the equipment regulations exactly as they appear in each section of the 2009-10 Kentucky Hunting & Trapping Guide. Those with valid permits should note the exception when reviewing regulations regarding legal hunting equipment for all game, including deer, turkey, elk, bear, small game and furbearer species.

    Hayley Lynch,

    It also says in KRS 237.110:

    (19) The General Assembly finds as a matter of public policy that it is necessary to provide statewide uniform standards for issuing licenses to carry concealed firearms and to occupy the field of regulation of the bearing of concealed firearms to ensure that no person who qualifies under the provisions of this section is denied his rights. The General Assembly does not delegate to the Department of Kentucky State Police the authority to regulate or restrict the issuing of licenses provided for in this section beyond those provisions contained in this section. This section shall be liberally construed to carry out the constitutional right to bear arms for self-defense.
    To reiterate what others have said here, the General Assembly only has the power to regulate "concealed carry". Your publication is misleading at best to Hunters & Archers, who may choose to open carry, without such license, per the Kentucky constitution, and existing case law.

    Furthermore, and according to this section, while I understand that hunters cannot "take game" when firearms are not permitted, I can shoot, in self-defense, any wild animal that threatens the safety of me or my family. Your revised document does not reflect this. Why?

    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legresou/Constitu/001.htm

    Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.
    Holland v Commonwealth 294 S.W.2d 893 (1956)

    Prosecution of a deputy sheriff for carrying a concealed deadly weapon. The Circuit Court, Perry County, C.C. Wells, Judge, entered judgment of conviction and defendant appealed. The Court of Appeals, Moremen, Judge, held that where deputy sheriff went outside of the county in which he was appointed to locate an alleged offender for the purpose of offender’s arrest pursuant to a warrant which had been delivered to him, he had the right to carry a concealed deadly weapon.
    Judgment reversed with instructions that indictment be dismissed.
    MOREMEN, Judge.
    "……Section 1, subd. 7 of the Bill of Rights, which is concerned with inherent and inalienable rights, grants to all citizens:
    The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.’
    The foregoing section is an exemplification of the broadest expression of the right to bear arms. Some states give the legislature the right to regulate the carrying of firearms; at least one state prohibits even the possession of firearms. See cases collected in the annotation of Pierce v State of Oklahoma, 42 Okl. Cr. 272, 275 P. 393, 73 A.L.R. 833.
    In our state the legislature is empowered only to deny to citizens the right to carry concealed weapons. The constitutional provision is an affirmation of the faith that all men have the inherent right to arm themselves for the defense of themselves and of the state. The only limitation concerns the mode of carrying such instruments. We observe, via obiter dicta, that although a person is granted the right to carry a weapon openly, a severe penalty is imposed for carrying it concealed. If the gun is worn outside the jacket or shirt in full view, no one may question the wearer’s right so to do; but if it is carried under the jacket or shirt, the violator is subject to imprisonment for not less than two nor more than five years. The heavy emphasis, we suppose, is upon the undue advantage given to a person who is able suddenly to expose and use a weapon, although the gun itself is the vicious instrument………."
    Emphasis supplied.
    Please update the PDF on your website to at least reflect the corrected concealed references to the mode of carry, as well as legitimate self defense shootings.

    http://www.kdfwr.state.ky.us/navigat...p;navpath=C741
    http://www.kdfwr.state.ky.us/pdf/091...uideentire.pdf



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    Good job Statesman. Well articulated.
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    Thanks Hotrod.


    From pg 35 of the 0910huntingguideentire.pdf

    EQUIPMENT RESTRICTIONS

    Hunters may use equipment legal for deer hunting, with the following additional restrictions:

    A person shall not use or possess while bear hunting:

    • A modern firearm of less than .270 caliber
    • A muzzleloading firearm of less than .50 caliber
    • A shotgun of less than 20-gauge
    • A shotgun shell containing more than one (1) projectile
    A handgun with a barrel length of less than six (6) inches, a bore diameter less than .270 inches, or that when fired, the bullet produces less than 550 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards.
    What the hell ? Who are these people to tell me what I can't carry for self defense? What statute authorizes this garbage? I'm calling my state representative on this!

    I believe this is in conflict with:

    Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.

    Nothing in the KY constitution permits them to regulate what I can carry for self-defense purposes. Hunting may be another matter, but not for self-defense.

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    Best of luck fellas....I don't know if it's because the General Assembly is out of session or what, but I've yet to hear back from my reps. Hopefully yours are more diligent.

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    I have to say that I don't think these folks who write this are well...let's just say not too swift. I don't think they are concerned with self-defense. Whether it was written so that a hunter will not simply wound a bear or not, it must be changed.





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    Statesman wrote:
    Thanks Hotrod.


    From pg 35 of the 0910huntingguideentire.pdf

    EQUIPMENT RESTRICTIONS

    Hunters may use equipment legal for deer hunting, with the following additional restrictions:

    A person shall not use or possess while bear hunting:

    • A modern firearm of less than .270 caliber
    • A muzzleloading firearm of less than .50 caliber
    • A shotgun of less than 20-gauge
    • A shotgun shell containing more than one (1) projectile
    A handgun with a barrel length of less than six (6) inches, a bore diameter less than .270 inches, or that when fired, the bullet produces less than 550 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards.
    What the hell ? Who are these people to tell me what I can't carry for self defense? What statute authorizes this garbage? I'm calling my state representative on this!

    I believe this is in conflict with:

    Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.

    Nothing in the KY constitution permits them to regulate what I can carry for self-defense purposes. Hunting may be another matter, but not for self-defense.
    I don't think those regs have anything to do with SD. You do know that there are some folks that hunt bear with a pistol? The reg's seem to bein regards to having sufficient cal weapons to take a bear with one clean shot.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Statesman wrote:
    Thanks Hotrod.


    From pg 35 of the 0910huntingguideentire.pdf

    EQUIPMENT RESTRICTIONS

    Hunters may use equipment legal for deer hunting, with the following additional restrictions:

    A person shall not use or possess while bear hunting:

    • A modern firearm of less than .270 caliber
    • A muzzleloading firearm of less than .50 caliber
    • A shotgun of less than 20-gauge
    • A shotgun shell containing more than one (1) projectile
    A handgun with a barrel length of less than six (6) inches, a bore diameter less than .270 inches, or that when fired, the bullet produces less than 550 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards.
    What the hell ? Who are these people to tell me what I can't carry for self defense? What statute authorizes this garbage? I'm calling my state representative on this!

    I believe this is in conflict with:

    Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.

    Nothing in the KY constitution permits them to regulate what I can carry for self-defense purposes. Hunting may be another matter, but not for self-defense.
    I don't think those regs have anything to do with SD. You do know that there are some folks that hunt bear with a pistol? The reg's seem to bein regards to having sufficient cal weapons to take a bear with one clean shot.
    I think you are correct. If you are taking game, then I agree with the regulation(s). People should not hunt with calibers that only wound the animal, and leave them to run off and suffer.

    These regulations have nothing to do with self-defense. Not only that, but they appear to infringe on the right to carry guns that are self-defense oriented. If the presumption is that a hunter will use a hunting weapon for self-defense against a bear, it shouldn't be the regulatory agencies decision to make, IMHO.

    If the only thing I have left to defend myself from a bear is my .38 special, with a 3 inch barrel, should a state regulatory agency make rules against it, in direct conflict with the Kentucky constitution? I think not!


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    Statesman wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Statesman wrote:
    Thanks Hotrod.


    From pg 35 of the 0910huntingguideentire.pdf

    EQUIPMENT RESTRICTIONS

    Hunters may use equipment legal for deer hunting, with the following additional restrictions:

    A person shall not use or possess while bear hunting:

    • A modern firearm of less than .270 caliber
    • A muzzleloading firearm of less than .50 caliber
    • A shotgun of less than 20-gauge
    • A shotgun shell containing more than one (1) projectile
    A handgun with a barrel length of less than six (6) inches, a bore diameter less than .270 inches, or that when fired, the bullet produces less than 550 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards.
    What the hell ? Who are these people to tell me what I can't carry for self defense? What statute authorizes this garbage? I'm calling my state representative on this!

    I believe this is in conflict with:

    Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.

    Nothing in the KY constitution permits them to regulate what I can carry for self-defense purposes. Hunting may be another matter, but not for self-defense.
    I don't think those regs have anything to do with SD. You do know that there are some folks that hunt bear with a pistol? The reg's seem to bein regards to having sufficient cal weapons to take a bear with one clean shot.
    I think you are correct. If you are taking game, then I agree with the regulation(s). People should not hunt with calibers that only wound the animal, and leave them to run off and suffer.

    These regulations have nothing to do with self-defense. Not only that, but they appear to infringe on the right to carry guns that are self-defense oriented. If the presumption is that a hunter will use a hunting weapon for self-defense against a bear, it shouldn't be the regulatory agencies decision to make, IMHO.

    If the only thing I have left to defend myself from a bear is my .38 special, with a 3 inch barrel, should a state regulatory agency make rules against it, in direct conflict with the Kentucky constitution? I think not!
    The .38 would excede the .270 bore minimum. Need a longer barrel, and I'm not sure about the balistics. I'm not sure any SD handgun could pack that much punch at 100 yds.

    It looks like this reg only applies during bear hunting season.

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    i just got off the phone with the fish & wildlife dept., i wanted to go squirrel hunting but along with my 22 for squirrels i wanted to take my 357 with me in case of self defense or to shoot coyote's. they told me i could not take my handgun with me without a permit, even if i open carry i need a concealed carry permit to carry a handgun with me. he said i could not hunt small game with my 22and be in possesion of a gun not legal for it, and if i was using the handgun just for self defense then i have to have a weapons permit. he said i needed a 22 hand gun to be legal or i would lose my gun, face fines, and jail time. he said if i carried my 357handgun to leave the 22 at home and just hunt coyote's. i guess i won't go today i'll check with my game warden tonite if i can get a hold of him, he's a nice guy so i'll see what he tells me i can do.

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    This info from KY Fish & Game, in my opinion, is total BS. So,I guess they can override the KY Constitution? Yeah, right. I will do some research on this and try to contact them myself.

    Did this guy give any statutes that give them the authority to arrest, cite, take away weapons? I'm sure he didn't, because as far as I know, there aren't any. So, nowI can't carry a pistol openly in the woods without a CC license.

    Well,I will be doing some digging on this...I'll Be Back!


    My research isn't complete yet. Tomorrow I'm going to call KY Fish & Game and see what statute they would cite me under ifI were to open carry a pistol while hunting. Also, I will be contacting my Rep.'s in Frankfort.





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    I called Fish & Game this morning. I was connected to Law Enforcement. I went with same question as previous poster. I asked if I could open carry a 9mm pistol while hunting with a .22. There was a long pause. He was very careful in his response, or lack of. I never got an answer. He got off the phone to research it. He said that the rules had just changed. But he did say thatI could carry it concealed if I had a CC permit.

    He took my name and number. He said he would call me back with an answer. It's been almost an hour with no return call. As soon as I hear something, I'll post it. But seems to me there is some inconsistency in the information and maybe no one at Fish & Game really know the KY Constitution regarding firearm laws.Surprise!!



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    A guy from KY Fish & Game called me back at some point today while I was out. He left a number, but it was too late to call him today. I will talk with him tomorrow. And depending on what he says,I may contact my Rep. and Senator in Frankfort.



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    8th ID wrote:
    A guy from KY Fish & Game called me back at some point today while I was out. He left a number, but it was too late to call him today. I will talk with him tomorrow. And depending on what he says,I may contact my Rep. and Senator in Frankfort.

    As soon as you post a response, and if it's not in line with the Commonwealth constitution, I will contact the Attorney General's office. It's black letter law. There is no wobble room. The Commonwealth can NOT regulate open carry.


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    hotrod wrote:
    8th ID wrote:
    A guy from KY Fish & Game called me back at some point today while I was out. He left a number, but it was too late to call him today. I will talk with him tomorrow. And depending on what he says,I may contact my Rep. and Senator in Frankfort.

    As soon as you post a response, and if it's not in line with the Commonwealth constitution, I will contact the Attorney General's office. It's black letter law. There is no wobble room. The Commonwealth can NOT regulate open carry.

    hotrod, This morning I was ready to read from KY Constitution, Attorney Generals opinions, and Holland v Commonwealth. I wanted to see if he would commit to regulation of open carry. AfterI asked my question, he paused for almost a minute! I thought he actually hung up on me. He was obviously confused. He refused to really commit to anything.I honestly don't believe they know what the law is. I'll call when their office opens tomorrow and post as soon as I can.

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