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Thread: 8/29 Jacobson Park OC Picnic - CANCELLED

  1. #1
    Regular Member Statesman's Avatar
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    Just got an email from Liberty. The OC picnic is canceled for tomorrow due to LFUCG's requirement of insurance. I'm sure Liberty will update here shortly, but this is just a heads up.

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    Is insurance required of any group renting a shelter OR just GUN OWNERS. Smells fishy to me. Could this simply be a way of LFUCG preventing the OC Picnic?

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    8th ID wrote:
    Is insurance required of any group renting a shelter OR just GUN OWNERS. Smells fishy to me. Could this simply be a way of LFUCG preventing the OC Picnic?
    Rule 2.

    All rentals are for personal/family use. Large groups, organization events, company picnics, gatherings, retreats, the use of rental equipment or other uses may require an additional permit. Shelter capacity is 35-50 persons, except for Jacobson Park Shelter #4 which has a capacity of 100 person.

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    Who says that we all can't just show up and have a picnic in the park. It does not have to be a part of a "reserved shelter".

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    I know there are going to be people show up having not read this.

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    I won't be posting the email from Liberty, because I don't know if he intended it to be posted here.

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    Tomorrow's open carry picnic at Jacobson Park has been canceled.

    I'm very sorry for the late notification. Dang, it's been busy today! Here's the long sorry tale if you're interested. You might want to wait for the movie. They're trying to get crazy Mel Gibson to play me.

    I've been working behind the scenes for the last few days, doing everything I could to overcome the objections of the Lexington Fayette Urban County Government Division of Parks & Recreation, so we could have our little picnic.

    Late in the day on Monday, I received a call and email from the director of the LFUCG Division of Parks & Recreation. Mr. Hancock expressed concerns that a large event, open to the public, could create problems. He mentioned a possible need for people to park cars, and the possible need to rent porta-johns. He wanted to know about my plans to clean up after the event, whether we'd have live music or amplified public speaking, and what my plans were for dealing with the public that may be curious about such a "large event".

    The big issue of contention was the requirement by the LFUCG to secure a $1,000,000.00 liability insurance policy listing the city as the insured party. This requirement was not mentioned anywhere in the lengthy shelter rules, nor could I find this requirement anyplace on their website. I was first made aware of this unpublished rule late in the day on Monday, and I've been trying since then to secure the required insurance. All of the insurance agents I contacted use the same underwriter for special event liability insurance. I completed their four page form and I received the quote near the end of the day yesterday. It would cost me over $500.00 to obtain the required insurance, which is obviously out of the question for twenty people having a picnic in the park.

    In my phone call this morning, I did my very best to reassure Mr. Hancock that despite the fact that there was a posting on a website and the invitation was extended to two local liberty groups and two local online firearms enthusiast forums, that this event would not be a large public gathering. I told him that I expected approximately twenty people, and all of them would be very well behaved. There would be no noise, and certainly no litter left in or around the shelter. You wouldn't expect the people organizing open carry litter pickups on Richmond Road to trash up the park, right?

    I tried to convince Mr. Hancock that the requirement for liability insurance wasn't justified, because our picnic is not substantially different from any other small picnic in the park, but he insisted that posting an open invitation to the public on a website put this into the classification of a large public event, regardless of the number of people in attendance. He insisted that all events where the public is invited are required to secure liability insurance. He referred to rule #2 in the shelter rental terms and conditions.

    2. All rentals are for personal/family use. Large groups, organization events, company picnics, gatherings, retreats, the use of rental equipment or other uses may require an additional permit. Shelter capacity is 35-50 persons, except for Jacobson Park Shelter #4 which has a capacity of 100 persons.

    By my interpretation, I was renting the shelter for my own personal use, for the enjoyment of my liberty friends and my friends who cherish the right to keep and bear arms. Yes, the event was to be open to the public, but not in the sense of promoting a circus. I was simply inviting new friends I had not yet met. From my perspective, the intent of the rule was to prevent a shelter from being used for several hundred people, as indicated by the reference to shelter capacity. Furthermore, a possible additional fee was mentioned for large groups, but there was no mention of any requirement for liability insurance. There was also no indication that shelter events couldn't be open to the public or advertised on a website, and I suspect that many such events regularly occur without the required insurance, but Mr. Hancock insisted that this was their rule and they apply it uniformly.

    Even though I was almost certain that attendance at this picnic would be far fewer than the 50 person shelter capacity, I called the LFUCG Division of Parks & Recreation last Friday to inquire as to whether I'd need to pay an additional fee if there were more than 50 people at the picnic and I was told that the shelter capacity was 50 people, and if we had more than 50 people we could bring some lawn chairs. I asked if there would be any regulatory issues if we had more than 50 people, if the police would be called, etc. and the LFUCG representative laughed and said that no, nothing like that would happen. That seemed to confirm my interpretation that the issue with rule #2 was having adequate shelter facilities for the number of people.

    Mr. Hancock instead focused on "personal/family use" and he insisted that inviting the public made this a public event, and that alone was what prompted the liability insurance requirement.

    I felt that I was trying my best to follow the rules, and was informed of unwritten rules after the event was already planned, with little time to try to comply with the additional requirement for insurance.

    Mr. Hancock told me that he'd like to know what my plans are for tomorrow. I replied that from what he had told me, there would be a police presence and there would be problems if I went forward with the picnic without the liability insurance that I didn't know I needed. Mr. Hancock told me that he didn't say there would be a police presence. I told him that I was dealing with the government and there is a veiled threat of force implied. He told me that I needed the insurance to have the event. I told Mr. Hancock that I assumed that if I didn't secure the required insurance and had the event, there would be repercussions. He reiterated that he did not say anything about repercussions, but the insurance was a requirement and he wanted to know what I was going to do. I asked him directly about the hypothetical situation, if I had the event without the insurance, what would happen? He told me that he didn't know, but if he later learned that I had the event without the insurance, he might call me and ask if I had the event without the insurance, and what happens after that would depend on my answer to that question.

    It still seemed to me that the force of government was being applied, with no specific threat, but certainly that shouldn't be interpreted as there being no threat of legal repercussions. Mr. Hancock wouldn't tell me what my options were. He wouldn't tell me what would happen if I had an open carry picnic that was advertised as a public event without the insurance, but he implied that something would happen, and I had no choice but to assume that whatever it was, I wouldn't enjoy it.

    I told Mr. Hancock that I felt I was being left no option other than to attempt to cancel this event, and there probably would be a few people I wouldn't be able to reach at this late date who would appear at the park and be disappointed, and they'd contact me because my phone number is on the flier, and I'd do my best to "unruffle their ruffled feathers".

    I agreed to post a sign as soon as people enter the park, saying that the open carry picnic has been canceled, with my phone number so people can call for additional details or to register their righteous complaints. Mr. Hancock suggested that I also post a similar sign on the shelter, and I agreed to do so, from approximately 11:00 AM until 2:00 PM.

    From my liberty perspective:

    Round 1: Removing the "no firearms in any park" rule. Liberty wins.

    Round 2: Public open carry picnic in the park canceled. LFUCG wins.

    Round 3 will be the open carry picnic in the park without the public invitation. I stated to Mr. Hancock that I intended to have a private open carry picnic in the park, as the website invitation and promotion on a couple of online forums was the issue that justified the requirement to secure the million dollar liability insurance policy. Mr. Hancock told me that I could invite people to a picnic in the park without the need for liability insurance as long as there were no public invitations. He seemed most concerned about postings on the internet, and I think it's safe to assume that posting handbills or any other public invitations would also constitute a public event. So, I'll invite my friends, privately. Ironically, the rescheduled picnic will probably have a larger attendance than the canceled event. I know a lot of people in the liberty community and the RKBA community! That includes most of the people who were going to attend the canceled picnic, and many others told me they wanted to attend but had other plans so they will be available for a future event. It's also inevitable that some people will feel an added impetus to practice their unalienable right to keep and bear arms after the difficulties that led to the canceled picnic.

    I'll be in touch with my liberty friends and Right To Keep And Bear Arms friends for the private open carry picnic which will take place very soon.

    If anyone has any questions or comments about the canceled picnic, please feel free to call me.

    Bruce
    859-913-0747

    Buy rice. Buy beans. Buy guns. Buy ammo.
    This is your final SHTF warning.

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    Well, I can't help but think (am I paranoid) that rule #2 came into effect BECAUSE of the type of event we were planning. Also, I feel that there would have been a police presence with or without the insurance. And as soon as someone sees the future event at the park, I believe there will be a police presence.



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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    I don't expect any problems with the police. We're 100% within our right to have an open carry picnic, and this is 100% legal. I know responsible gun owners and 2A activists enough to know we'll be a peaceful and well behaved group, so there will be no provocation and no cause for concern from the police.

    Then again, there is always the situation my friend encountered when protesting Mitch McConnell because he twisted arms in the senate to pass the TARP-1 bailout for Wall Street banksters even though 92% of his constituents were against that redistribution of their money to those crooks.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgE2kVCMPxs

    While my friend was being frisked for no good reason, I was about 100 feet away, carrying concealed, and another friend of mine was open carrying in the Fayette County Republican Headquarters at McConnell's speech! He wasn't hassled, but after the event some guy who was there told me that he shouldn't have open carried because it made people nervous. I wouldn't have open carried there, but my friend was completely legal to do so unless asked to leave by the people who own or rent the building.

    If you go to an open carry picnic, bring your video camera!

    Buy rice. Buy beans. Buy guns. Buy ammo.
    This is your final SHTF warning.

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    What a nice officer: "I'll take your head off your shoulders." WOW. Just like you said, sounds like terroristic threatening to me, too.

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    8th ID wrote:
    What a nice officer: "I'll take your head off your shoulders." WOW. Just like you said, sounds like terroristic threatening to me, too.
    I can't believe this officer actually said this on camera, although I think the camera man didn't have the camera pointed directly at him. Maybe the officer didn't notice.

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    My friend was making a video recording of the event for YouTube. When the police appeared, he acted like he turned off the camera and lowered it to his side, but he had the presence of mind to keep filming. Sneaky.

    Buy rice. Buy beans. Buy guns. Buy ammo.
    This is your final SHTF warning.

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    Regular Member mellio's Avatar
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    I drove through the park around 2:15pm. Back near the dog run there was an event taking place at a shelter. They had lots of large wooden toss games set up. They also had one of the inflatable jumping castle things. Like for kids to jump in. Large speakers on stands, and a lot of people there. I'll bet they didn't get a call from the city. I'll also bet they didn't have the "required" million dollar policy.:X

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    Guys feel free to join us in Lou...

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    I don't understand something. Why was the parks department notified at all? We're a group of people getting together for a picnic, probably 20 or less. No different than any other event.

    If someone didn't like it, send the cops! Big deal!

    You guys know darn well they'd come up with some excuse to get the picnic restricted in some way so we'd have to cancel.

    "We'd like to reserve a pavillion at the park. Yes, probably around 20 or so. Fine, thank you. Oh by the way we'll all be armed. What do you mean I can't have a pavillion now? You just gave me the confirmation number!"

    Etc.


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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    chris in va wrote:
    I don't understand something. Why was the parks department notified at all? We're a group of people getting together for a picnic, probably 20 or less. No different than any other event.

    If someone didn't like it, send the cops! Big deal!
    I posted the invitation online and invited the public, and a Lexington police officer saw the invitation and forwarded it to the director of the Division of Parks & Recreation. Ostensibly, the problem was the public invitation designated this as a public event and that triggered a million dollar liability insurance requirement, and that's why the police officer forwarded the invitation, but I have my doubts. I think there are many events that were advertised publicly that aren't required to have the insurance. I can't prove it YET, but I think it's likely that the Open Carry Picnic was given special treatment because it was a Right To Keep & Bear Arms event.

    We had Lexington's First Open Carry Picnic the following day, on Sunday, and it was GREAT! The weather was perfect and 28 liberty loving individuals assembled peacefully and enjoyed each other's company. I'll post a link as soon as the pictures and a hilarious video are online.

    I've been very busy lately!
    Buy rice. Buy beans. Buy guns. Buy ammo.
    This is your final SHTF warning.

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    I'm going to post this same info on the other threadI started about the SUNDAY OC Picnic.



    GUTSHOT: There was a sign, with a gun and everything!

    INFORMATION from a reliable source: The Lexington PD knew about Saturday's event. They knew why it was cancelled. There was LEO present at Jacobson. AND police DID receive complaints from citizens on Sunday. Those who called were told that OC was legal.

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    We've got to give credit where it's due, and thank the LPD for informing callers that open carry is legal. I have to say, this was unexpected.

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