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OC in Apartments within 1000 ft of school

W

wolfetundra

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Redding, California, USA
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I am perfectly content to being restricted to OCing only in my apartment (while within the school zone). Outside of my apartment, as another person has stated, a vehicle is just as deadly as a gun. If need be, use it.

I am only interested and concerned with the legalities of OCing only within the boundries of my complex. I don't wander far. Mainly outside my unit to smoke, or to my car (and placed into the trunk) when going somewhere. I don't wander around the complex for all to see. That's not why I carry. My goal is to protect, uphold my rights, and educate - not scare the hell out of my neighbors.
 
1245A Defender

1245A Defender

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well, you already said your neighbors like you to OC. and youve been warned that overturf can rule, that out side your apt. walls can be public place. and permission fromthe school super excempts you from the restriction, and protects you from 626.9.

in fact, you may not be legal just to take your gun to your car, without said permission.
 
bigtoe416

bigtoe416

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I believe pullnshoot25 once tried to obtain permission from a school and they rejected him with some boilerplate letter. I hope you're willing to be arrested if you plan on OCing, I certainly am. As the other guys have pointed out (and corrected me), according to the penal code and current case law, you are fine carrying inside your apartment complex. Could the cops arrest you? Absolutely. You could have the school's permission and the cops could still arrest you for something. If you're open carrying, it's a risk you run.

The trick is to know and follow the law and you should be good to go. I believe that Theseus will be found not guilty in his case if it gets that far. Maybe I'm being an idealist, but I can't imagine that a jury would look at the law and decide something different, and then an appeals court would agree with them.
 
T

Theseus

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It won't really matter. The real point of sending the request to be exempt from 626.9 and applying for a CCW is that you then have standing when we need to challenge the law. You tried and were summarily denied the right to self defense.

They will likely send you the same "Does not compute with our policy of non-violent dispute resolution." BS.

You are supposed to scald them with your words.

I would reccomend trying to suggest that denying you the right might be grounds for a suit if you are actually made a victim of violent crime in their district since you asked and they denied you.
 
coolusername2007

coolusername2007

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Temecula, California, USA
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wolfetundra wrote:
So it would be in my best interest to contact the school and obtain permission to OC in my apartment? Am I understanding you correctly?
Click to expand...

Like I said before gun-free school carnage zones should just be considered red-hot zones. And I wouldn't attempt to obtain permission. Doing so just tells them (in their mind) that some wackado wants to carry in gun in a federal gun-free zone, and oh would you look at this he was nice enough to give us his name and address for our records, maybe we should keep his letter...forever...just in case.

However, I have written elsewhere recently to do just the opposite, write everybody, your school super, setup a personal meeting with your local federal and state representatives and try to get them to help you out by putting pressure on the school super. Good luck, to me its all a waste of time.

The only way this infringement will ever possibly go away is by the SCOTUS. The politicians will never do away with it. And its probably going to take some innocent persongetting killed or severly maimed.
 
N

N6ATF

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coolusername2007 wrote:
The only way this infringement will ever possibly go away is by the SCOTUS. The politicians will never do away with it. And its probably going to take some innocent person getting killed or severly maimed.
Click to expand...
This already happens. Short of a traitorous politician having a rally on the street in front of a school, a madman running up with a machete and hacking them to bits while the crowd runs away (because nobody could legally have a gun to stop it)... politicians will continue to ensure there will be innocent blood spilled. Their actions have proven time and time again that they delight in our pain and deaths.

But of course we all know traitors never get assassinated in this country... evil kills good (or at least a lot better), not fellow evil.
 
coolusername2007

coolusername2007

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Theseus wrote:
I would reccomend trying to suggest that denying you the right might be grounds for a suit if you are actually made a victim of violent crime in their district since you asked and they denied you.
Click to expand...

Now there's a goodidea. You could possibly win a civil case with this one. Maybe we should all inundate the school supers to put them on notice. Then one by one sue the crap out of them.

Edited for spelling.
 
K

KS_to_CA

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Theseus wrote:
:celebrate You go girl! I mean. . . . Guy!

Firstly, you are technically in the good in the apartment complex as long as you stay off the sidewalk.

This is what is illegal:

626.9 (b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written permission of the school district superintendent, his or her designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).
Click to expand...
This is one of the exemptions:
626.9(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the firearm is otherwise lawful.
Click to expand...
Here is case law that makes a sidewalk NOT private property in 626.9:

People v Tapia:
The property in question was subject to an easement of way, owned, apparently, by a public entity. Thus, any property interest owned by Tapia's father was not of a sort that a reasonable citizen would understand to be private.
Click to expand...
In my case, the DA has argued successfully that Tapia should be extended to include the parking lot of the laundry mat because it is "open to the public".

It is not clear yet how this will effect anything. For the time being you are technically in the clear.
Click to expand...
So, here's a stupid question. My home is within the GFSZ. If you are facing my house, there is a sign between my property and my neighbor to the right that says "SCHOOL". The school is high school located three houses to my left, across the street, two houses deep.

So if I am standing outside my house, in the space immediately in front of my garage, but not on the sidewalk, with a firearm, am I an exception to the 626.9?
 
N

N6ATF

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KS_to_CA wrote:
Theseus wrote:
:celebrate You go girl! I mean. . . . Guy!

Firstly, you are technically in the good in the apartment complex as long as you stay off the sidewalk.

This is what is illegal:

626.9 (b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written permission of the school district superintendent, his or her designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).
Click to expand...
This is one of the exemptions:
626.9(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the firearm is otherwise lawful.
Click to expand...
Here is case law that makes a sidewalk NOT private property in 626.9:

People v Tapia:
The property in question was subject to an easement of way, owned, apparently, by a public entity. Thus, any property interest owned by Tapia's father was not of a sort that a reasonable citizen would understand to be private.
Click to expand...
In my case, the DA has argued successfully that Tapia should be extended to include the parking lot of the laundry mat because it is "open to the public".

It is not clear yet how this will effect anything. For the time being you are technically in the clear.
Click to expand...
So, here's a stupid question. My home is within the GFSZ. If you are facing my house, there is a sign between my property and my neighbor to the right that says "SCHOOL". The school is high school located three houses to my left, across the street, two houses deep.

So if I am standing outside my house, in the space immediately in front of my garage, but not on the sidewalk, with a firearm, am I an exception to the 626.9?
Click to expand...
Let's just say if you don't want to be prosecuted for 626.9 in that location, put up 6 foot high fence with a locked gate of the same height that prevents anyone from getting to you without first climbing over it. This should require a warrant for entry to arrest you in the first place.
 
bigtoe416

bigtoe416

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KS_to_CA wrote:
So, here's a stupid question. My home is within the GFSZ. If you are facing my house, there is a sign between my property and my neighbor to the right that says "SCHOOL". The school is high school located three houses to my left, across the street, two houses deep.

So if I am standing outside my house, in the space immediately in front of my garage, but not on the sidewalk, with a firearm, am I an exception to the 626.9?
Click to expand...
Yeah, technically you are exempt from 626.9 since you are on private property.
 
T

Theseus

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N6ATF wrote:
KS_to_CA wrote:
So, here's a stupid question. My home is within the GFSZ. If you are facing my house, there is a sign between my property and my neighbor to the right that says "SCHOOL". The school is high school located three houses to my left, across the street, two houses deep.

So if I am standing outside my house, in the space immediately in front of my garage, but not on the sidewalk, with a firearm, am I an exception to the 626.9?
Click to expand...
Let's just say if you don't want to be prosecuted for 626.9 in that location, put up 6 foot high fence with a locked gate of the same height that prevents anyone from getting to you without first climbing over it. This should require a warrant for entry to arrest you in the first place.
Click to expand...
Here is the deal. Many cities have an ordinance that says you can't have a front yard fence, or that it can not excede 4ft tall. . .

In your driveway you are technically clear, but as stated, if they want to get you, they will charge you and it will cost money to fight.

This is why it is such a ridiculous law. You can protect your family, except when you live in a school zone. And since most schools are in residential zones what choice do you have?

I wonder how many people argue against a new school using 626.9 infringement?
 
C

CA_Libertarian

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Jul 18, 2007
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Stanislaus County, California, USA
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wolfetundra wrote:
So it would be in my best interest to contact the school and obtain permission to OC in my apartment? Am I understanding you correctly?
Click to expand...
I think this would be a bad idea, unless you know the super to be gun-friendly.

The worst case scenario is: super rejects your request, then notifies police of your request and asks them to "look into it", then some asshat at the PD decides to make your life hell for being pro-gun.

IMO, the risks far outweigh the potential benefits.

IMO, it's also not worth the risk to try to operate within the "private property" exemption. (Though I admit I'm fairly risk averse.) The problem I foresee is that we already have a 'test case' in the works, and it would be a huge waste of resources to have more than one case like Thesues'.

And if your risk aversion is low enough to do either of the above... record everything and have your defense coffers well-funded.
 
N

N6ATF

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Theseus wrote:
Don't ask because they will report you?

If the PD contacts you tell them to pound sand!
Click to expand...
Considering the wide variety of abuse of law-abiding gun owners by LEOs in the recent past, I would not put it completely past them to give you a pair of shiny bracelets and 4-star accommodations in the back of their patrol car for a few hours at least, if not a trip to the 5-star county jail, for daring to even think about exercising the right to bear arms.
 
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