Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: Courthouse Carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605

    Post imported post

    Since another memberplaced a remark about it, and it appears that member lives in Alabama, then I am curious if He, or anyone else, knows, or has atleast found out if, carrying a Firearm or Weapon into a Court House is legal.

    I am not trying to push the issue, I am just simply curious based on my previous thread...

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Auburn, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    797

    Post imported post

    I haven't quite figured it out. There is no specific prohibition against carrying in courthouses that I know of.

    Most seem to have guards and metal detectors though. I'm also not sure if courthouses get around the preemption since they are county buildings usually, and not owned by an incorporated municipality.

    I'm also sure that in a courtroom, a judge could hold you in contempt for having a firearm.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605

    Post imported post

    Remember, I am not advocating taking aLoaded Firearm into the actual Courtroom, but rather if it would beLegal to carry a Firearm into the commonareas of ingress and egress to and from the building.

    Areas such as this would be a Vending Area, Law Library, and other Offices.

    I do believe that per Alabama Code 11-80-11, Couties and other Political Subdivisions of The State of Alabama are preempted when it comes to Firearms.

    So as long as there is not any public Demonstration within 1000 feet of a Courthouse, then, it should beLawful.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Plymouth, MN, ,
    Posts
    250

    Post imported post

    Why don't you give it a try and let us know how it turns out.

    I agree it should be legal, but as we all know "should" and "is" in Alabama are quite often two entirely different things.


  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605

    Post imported post

    I would rather not give it a try, but... if someone else is willing to..., then,...

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Lost Wages :), Nevada, USA
    Posts
    48

    Post imported post

    Well as for Clark County, NV I looked it up because I had asked the same question for my county............................................ ..Answer is!

    http://www.clarkcountycourts.us/security.html



  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605

    Post imported post

    I am pretty sure that violates The NRS, because The NRS only prohibits concealed Firearms from being in Public Buildings per NRS 202.3673; provided, the carrying of a concealed Firearm under NRS 202.3673(4)(C) and NRS 202.3673(4)(D) is permissable if you are employed at the Courthouse, or if you have permission from the administrator of the Courthouse to carry while there.

    Open Carry is seemingly unrestricted inThe State of Nevada, becauseNRS 202.365 through NRS 202.369 only deal withConcealed Carry.

    The only Open Carry off limits place that is perse illegal is under NRS 202.265. School-zones, School Buses,Child Day CareCenters, and Nevada Higher Learning Property are all off limits, in accordance with18 U.S.C. 922(q). It does not matter if these places are public or private, as... they are off limits.

    There is a close range exemption for The Day Care Centers, Schools K-12, andNevada HigherLearning Property per NRS 202.265(3)(A)(3), provided you have written permission to do so, which written permission specifically allows forone to posses a Firearm or Weapon,... from the Principal or President of the establishment.

    Everywhereelse in Nevada, including Courthouses, is Legal toOpen Carry; provided that you are not a Felon, Drunkard, etc..

    Because of State-wide Preemption, as underThe NRS, so The Courthouse in question can not circumvent this State Law.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, ,
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    I posted this in another thread as well but...

    In Alabama, many courts have issued orders specifically prohibiting the posession of ANY weapon by private citizens inside the court house. As far as I know, the state code doesn't prevent you from openly carrying inside the court house but because of the court orders you could be held in contemp of court and possibly jailed for bringing in a weapon..

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Alabama, ,
    Posts
    1,338

    Post imported post

    I've been waiting 10+ years to get a ticket so I can challenge it myself.
    Will video the cops face when I ask for his warrant before going through
    the metal detectors. Without a warrant I will not be searched, and
    if they want to deny a court order for me to appear that is their problem.

    Till I have that court order to be there, I choose not to go at all.
    I want to force the issue so they can't duck it.

    On our side, AL SC can actually read better than the fed one.
    I am astounded they abide by the state constitution time and again.
    Just unanimously ruled that a law passed by the legislature, and signed
    by the gov. is actually a real law. Not subject to be ignored if you don't
    like it. I think they are the DA's biggest fear, to have them reiterate
    that the constitution says only the state legislature can write gun laws.


  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Never Never Land
    Posts
    514

    Post imported post

    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    I've been waiting 10+ years to get a ticket so I can challenge it myself.
    Will video the cops face when I ask for his warrant before going through
    the metal detectors. Without a warrant I will not be searched, and
    if they want to deny a court order for me to appear that is their problem.

    Till I have that court order to be there, I choose not to go at all.
    I want to force the issue so they can't duck it.

    On our side, AL SC can actually read better than the fed one.
    I am astounded they abide by the state constitution time and again.
    Just unanimously ruled that a law passed by the legislature, and signed
    by the gov. is actually a real law. Not subject to be ignored if you don't
    like it. I think they are the DA's biggest fear, to have them reiterate
    that the constitution says only the state legislature can write gun laws.
    It may be legal but be prepared to get a room at the county inn for a few hours

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    326

    Post imported post

    xdm guy wrote:
    It may be legal but be prepared to get a room at the county inn for a few hours




    Where you will get 3 squares, a cot, meet new friends, and get more "love" than you could ever want.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Alabama, ,
    Posts
    1,338

    Post imported post

    I used that defense once. Asked the judge to lock my up, had no job,
    no food at home, no where I had to be. Could use the meals and rest.
    He threw me out of his courtroom.

    Yes the natives are a bit more 'friendly' now, but to make them violate a court
    order to get to me just opens up phase II. I need to wear the gun in my trial
    to show the jury that I am no threat to anyone, and they violated my civil
    rights with illegal search to even charge me to begin with.
    The biggest decision is bench/jury I know our SC is very literate, so overturning
    an illiterate judge would be a no brain'r. But would they go against a jury as quick?
    Of course a jury is less likely to want to violate the law up front. I had much
    more faith in VA judges, that they wouldn't even let it go that far.

    If you choose to go in then you can waive your rights and enter, but I see
    no way they can require you to surrender them by fiat without cause.
    If they can then there is no such thing as an illegal search, if all they
    need to search a suspect is issue a summons for jaywalking and he must
    waive his rights because of it.




  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Never Never Land
    Posts
    514

    Post imported post

    Keep us posted on the case and post the video too

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    53

    Post imported post

    I know this topic is a little old but I thought I would throw this out there.

    In Alabama we have basically two sets of laws, the Code of Alabama and the Alabama Administrative code. State park carry for example is covered in the administrative code.

    Admin code for All offices of the Alabama Department of Human Resources



    Statutory Authority: Code of Ala. 1975, §§41-22-4(a)(1), 38-2-6.



    660-1-1-.01 General Information.



    (4) Firearms and other dangerous weapons are prohibited in all county and state offices. All articles brought into any county or state office shall be subject to search. The carrying of dangerous weapons and/or the refusal to permit articles to be searched shall be rounds for denial of access to state and/or county offices. As used herein, the term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of causing, death or serious bodily injury.

    I most of the administrative code I have been able to find the penalty for violating a particular section either in the administrative code itself or in the section of the code of Alabama that authorizes that part of the administrative code. I can not find a penalty for this particular section.

    Other parts of the administrative code that restrict our right to carry include the following. There may be others but the administrative code is difficult to search through.

    State Parks

    Wildlife management areas

    Domestic violence shelters

    Short term detention facilities

    Shelters operated by the OFFICE OF PROSECUTION SERVICES

    BEAR CREEK DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY

    Red Mountain Greenway

    TANNEHILL HISTORICAL STATE PARK- I don't know why this one is listed separately but it is.



  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Plymouth, MN, ,
    Posts
    250

    Post imported post

    REB wrote:
    I know this topic is a little old but I thought I would throw this out there.

    In Alabama we have basically two sets of laws, the Code of Alabama and the Alabama Administrative code.* State park carry for example is covered in the administrative code.

    Admin code for All offices of the Alabama Department of Human Resources

    *

    Statutory Authority: Code of Ala. 1975, §§41-22-4(a)(1), 38-2-6.

    *

    660-1-1-.01 General Information.

    *

    (4) Firearms and other dangerous weapons are prohibited in all county and state offices. All articles brought into any county or state office shall be subject to search. The carrying of dangerous weapons and/or the refusal to permit articles to be searched shall be rounds for denial of access to state and/or county offices. As used herein, the term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of causing, death or serious bodily injury.

    I most of the administrative code I have been able to find the penalty for violating a particular section either in the administrative code itself or in the section of the code of Alabama that authorizes that part of the administrative code.* I can not find a penalty for this particular section.

    Other parts of the administrative code that restrict our right to carry include the following.* There may be others but the administrative code is difficult to search through.

    State Parks

    Wildlife management areas

    Domestic violence shelters

    Short term detention facilities

    Shelters operated by the OFFICE OF PROSECUTION SERVICES

    BEAR CREEK DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY

    Red Mountain Greenway

    TANNEHILL HISTORICAL STATE PARK*- I don't know why this one is listed separately but it is.

    *
    No officer, I don't actually have a driver's license. I was going to get one, but then I found out I couldn't go into the DMV because my hands and feet are "animate objects readily capable of causing serious bodily injury."

    Also no bottles, belts, pencils, or car keys. As a matter of fact, I get sunburned really easily so we better outlaw bright lights as well.

    Not poking fun at you , Reb, just the stupid wording of a useless regulation that truth be told was probably originally intended to apply to state employees only and has now been given the force of law by a complacent public.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    53

    Post imported post

    I agree completely about the wording of the regulation. Firearms are specifically named.

    I originally thought that this may only apply to employees but reading through most of the section that does not appear to be the case.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Alabama, ,
    Posts
    1,338

    Post imported post

    Originally applying to government employees is probably why there was no
    'punishment' for a violation. You can't treat workers like the sheep.


  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Scottsboro, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    6

    Post imported post

    Some of you may recall here in Scottsboro a few years back,we had a guy go into our Jackson County courthouse and shot someone over a child custody case.Just recently I had to go into the courthouse and I did not notice the small printed sheets of paper located among the hundreads of others cluttering the walls about no sharp objects or weapons allowed in the courthouse.Lucky for me I left the gun in my truck.I get to the top of the stairs and there is a new walk through security device with an officer sitting by it.Im asked to empty pockets.I drop keys and then my pocket knife into the bowl.The officer freaks out telling me I CANNOT have a weapon in the courthouse. I ask If i can just leave it with him and run get the passport papers I was there for and of course no.I was walked out to make sure i put the knife in my car before I was allowed back into the building.I get back upstairs and empty pockets again.Walk through and BEEEEEP. He got the wand and ran it over me....beep....my belt....beep...buttons on my coat.....beep....button on my jeans.I get a pat down and after ALL that( the same officer that made me leave the first time AFTER telling him what I was there for)says" ok....you are clean.But the office you are looking for is downstairs!!! He knew through all that, I needed to be somewhere else in the building and did it anyway. Irony is that I walked right into the sherrifs office just to see what response I got.....nothing.Never asked me a thing.So pretty much we have one level of our courthouse that is secure and the other you could walk in with a shotgun down your pants and nobody would know.Seems odd to me.But the long story is just to say that in Jackson County Al, you cannot carry a gun,knife or anything sharp into the building.Good luck finding the warning on the scattered walls though.One would think the smart thing would be to have that ON THE DOOR entering.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Eight Mile, , USA
    Posts
    234

    Post imported post

    Lightning_SVT wrote:
    Some of you may recall here in Scottsboro a few years back,we had a guy go into our Jackson County courthouse and shot someone over a child custody case.Just recently I had to go into the courthouse and I did not notice the small printed sheets of paper located among the hundreads of others cluttering the walls about no sharp objects or weapons allowed in the courthouse.Lucky for me I left the gun in my truck.I get to the top of the stairs and there is a new walk through security device with an officer sitting by it.Im asked to empty pockets.I drop keys and then my pocket knife into the bowl.The officer freaks out telling me I CANNOT have a weapon in the courthouse. I ask If i can just leave it with him and run get the passport papers I was there for and of course no.I was walked out to make sure i put the knife in my car before I was allowed back into the building.I get back upstairs and empty pockets again.Walk through and BEEEEEP. He got the wand and ran it over me....beep....my belt....beep...buttons on my coat.....beep....button on my jeans.I get a pat down and after ALL that( the same officer that made me leave the first time AFTER telling him what I was there for)says" ok....you are clean.But the office you are looking for is downstairs!!! He knew through all that, I needed to be somewhere else in the building and did it anyway. Irony is that I walked right into the sherrifs office just to see what response I got.....nothing.Never asked me a thing.So pretty much we have one level of our courthouse that is secure and the other you could walk in with a shotgun down your pants and nobody would know.Seems odd to me.But the long story is just to say that in Jackson County Al, you cannot carry a gun,knife or anything sharp into the building.Good luck finding the warning on the scattered walls though.One would think the smart thing would be to have that ON THE DOOR entering.
    My mother in law was detained years ago because she had a revolver in her purse she had forgotten about and went into the courthouse. What ********. She simply forgot and they wouldn't just let her go put it back in her vehicle.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    12

    Post imported post

    Last time I renewed my AL concealed carry permit at the Madison County Courthouse I had some extra time when done. Might do it for this renewal again. Hmmm.

    So I took the time to go to the Sheriff's office and ask point blank "Under what authority is it permissible for the guards at the doors of this courthouse to disarm me when I am carry a weapon legally per the Alabama Code?"

    Answer. "The Sheriff makes the rules for protecting the courthouse best as he can. The Sheriff does not allow non law enforcement personnel to carry weapons in the courthouse under any circumstance. State law allows him to do this. Are you interested in working with Madison County law enforcement?"

    So there you go. In Madison County - the Sheriff trumps the state code.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    53

    Post imported post

    Sounds like BS to me. I have never seen any law either in the code of Alabama or the Alabama administrative code that gives the Sheriff authority to make this kind of regulation.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605

    Post imported post

    Correct me if I am wrong, but The Alabama Administrative Code is not Law.

    The Alabama Administrative Code is more like... Policy.

    Policies are not Laws, and Law trumps Policy.

    No one is above The Law!

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    12

    Post imported post

    Was at the courthouse today and examined the door signs that indicated weapons were prohibited in the courthouse. The subscript on the text read "Courthouse Security Order of Alabama Supreme Court".

    Reading http://www.judicial.state.al.us/supreme.cfm informs me among other things that "The Supreme Court... has authority to ... issue such orders necessary to carry out its general superintendence over the courts in Alabama." No reference to any part of State Code or Administrative Code is present on the sign.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    53

    Post imported post

    aadvark wrote:
    Correct me if I am wrong, but The Alabama Administrative Code is not Law.

    The Alabama Administrative Code is more like... Policy.

    Policies are not Laws, and Law trumps Policy.

    No one is above The Law!
    Not exactly. The Alabama Administrative Code is law as authorized by the code of Alabama.



    For example take state park carry.



    Section 9-2-9 of the Code of Alabama (What you are considering the law) basically makes any regulation in the administrative code concerning the state parks law with a penalty for violating any of these regulations a misdemeanor.



    “(4) To establish and promulgate and from time to time alter, amend or repeal rules and regulations governing the preservation, protection and use of the state park system and the property thereon and to preserve the peace therein. Any person who violates any rule or regulation so established and promulgated shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine of not more than $500.00 or imprisonment for not more than six months, or both, and may be adjudged to pay all costs of the proceedings. The Director of the Division of Parks shall have and he is hereby vested with full police power to prefer charges against and to make arrests of any person or persons violating any such rule or regulation. The Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources shall have full authority to designate any other employee or employees of the said Division of Parks as deputy police officers, who shall have full authority to prefer charges against or to make arrests of any person or persons violating any rule or regulation established or promulgated by the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources;”



    Under the above authorization in the Code of Alabama the following section of the Alabama Administrative Code make carrying a firearm into a state park a misdemeanor violation.

    [/b]

    Alabama[/b] Administrative Code 220-5-.08 Prohibited Devices[/b].

    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person other than a duly authorized law enforcement officer to possess or carry into any State Park any form of firearm without written permission of the manager in charge of the State Park visited. No person shall possess, discharge or set off on or within a State Park any firecrackers, torpedoes, rockets, cap pistols, or other fireworks.



    As far as I know every part of the Alabama Administrative Code is authorized by different parts of the Code of Alabama.



  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    53

    Post imported post

    RustyFalcon wrote:
    Was at the courthouse today and examined the door signs that indicated weapons were prohibited in the courthouse. The subscript on the text read "Courthouse Security Order of Alabama Supreme Court".

    Reading http://www.judicial.state.al.us/supreme.cfm informs me among other things that "The Supreme Court... has authority to ... issue such orders necessary to carry out its general superintendence over the courts in Alabama." No reference to any part of State Code or Administrative Code is present on the sign.
    That is interesting. Section 12-2-18 of the Code of Alabama gives the supreme court this authority for where they are meeting. I would be interested where they get the authority to regulate security at other court buildings. Section 12-2-30 is fairly broad and could be interpreted to give the supreme court this authority "(8) To take any such other, further or additional action as maybe necessary for the orderly administration of justice within the state, whether or not enumerated in this section or elsewhere.".

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •