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Courthouse Carry

REB

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Sounds like BS to me. I have never seen any law either in the code of Alabama or the Alabama administrative code that gives the Sheriff authority to make this kind of regulation.
 

aadvark

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Correct me if I am wrong, but The Alabama Administrative Code is not Law.

The Alabama Administrative Code is more like... Policy.

Policies are not Laws, and Law trumps Policy.

No one is above The Law!
 

RustyFalcon

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Was at the courthouse today and examined the door signs that indicated weapons were prohibited in the courthouse. The subscript on the text read "Courthouse Security Order of Alabama Supreme Court".

Reading http://www.judicial.state.al.us/supreme.cfm informs me among other things that "The Supreme Court... has authority to ... issue such orders necessary to carry out its general superintendence over the courts in Alabama." No reference to any part of State Code or Administrative Code is present on the sign.
 

REB

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aadvark wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but The Alabama Administrative Code is not Law.

The Alabama Administrative Code is more like... Policy.

Policies are not Laws, and Law trumps Policy.

No one is above The Law!
Not exactly. The Alabama Administrative Code is law as authorized by the code of Alabama.



For example take state park carry.



Section 9-2-9 of the Code of Alabama (What you are considering the law) basically makes any regulation in the administrative code concerning the state parks law with a penalty for violating any of these regulations a misdemeanor.



“(4) To establish and promulgate and from time to time alter, amend or repeal rules and regulations governing the preservation, protection and use of the state park system and the property thereon and to preserve the peace therein. Any person who violates any rule or regulation so established and promulgated shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine of not more than $500.00 or imprisonment for not more than six months, or both, and may be adjudged to pay all costs of the proceedings. The Director of the Division of Parks shall have and he is hereby vested with full police power to prefer charges against and to make arrests of any person or persons violating any such rule or regulation. The Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources shall have full authority to designate any other employee or employees of the said Division of Parks as deputy police officers, who shall have full authority to prefer charges against or to make arrests of any person or persons violating any rule or regulation established or promulgated by the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources;”



Under the above authorization in the Code of Alabama the following section of the Alabama Administrative Code make carrying a firearm into a state park a misdemeanor violation.

[/b]

Alabama[/b] Administrative Code 220-5-.08 Prohibited Devices[/b].

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person other than a duly authorized law enforcement officer to possess or carry into any State Park any form of firearm without written permission of the manager in charge of the State Park visited. No person shall possess, discharge or set off on or within a State Park any firecrackers, torpedoes, rockets, cap pistols, or other fireworks.



As far as I know every part of the Alabama Administrative Code is authorized by different parts of the Code of Alabama.
 

REB

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RustyFalcon wrote:
Was at the courthouse today and examined the door signs that indicated weapons were prohibited in the courthouse. The subscript on the text read "Courthouse Security Order of Alabama Supreme Court".

Reading http://www.judicial.state.al.us/supreme.cfm informs me among other things that "The Supreme Court... has authority to ... issue such orders necessary to carry out its general superintendence over the courts in Alabama." No reference to any part of State Code or Administrative Code is present on the sign.
That is interesting. Section 12-2-18 of the Code of Alabama gives the supreme court this authority for where they are meeting. I would be interested where they get the authority to regulate security at other court buildings. Section 12-2-30 is fairly broad and could be interpreted to give the supreme court this authority "(8) To take any such other, further or additional action as maybe necessary for the orderly administration of justice within the state, whether or not enumerated in this section or elsewhere.".
 

REB

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After a little research it appears that
the courthouse security committee established by order of the supreme court under Alabama rules of judicial administration Rule 37 controls courthouse security. I still don't know exactly where the authorization for this power comes from?
 

RustyFalcon

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http://www.alabamamoments.alalinc.net/Judicial Admin individual/rule37.html

A comment in Rule 27 indicates this comes under authority of Alabama Code 12-1-2, 12-2-7, and 12-2-19(b)

Alabama Code 12-2-19(b) seems to be the operative authority here as excerpts read: "...the Legislature finds that it is within the scope of such authority for the Supreme Court to make rules of administration pertaining to ... the security of courts..."
 

SlackwareRobert

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"... for the protection of justices, judges and court personnel,
and the buildings and other property owned or leased by the
State of Alabama for use by the justices, judges, and court personnel
"

Now correct me if I am off track here...
But the DMV, records, tax assessors are not court personnel, so as long
as you tell them you are not going to court areas of the building they have no say.
I will have to check, but does the justice division own the 'tornado shelter' at the
court house? After all, in times of disaster they are not even allowed to take our guns.

One other thought... Satallite offices. No judges there!!!:celebrate:celebrate

Eventually I will get my ticket, and then I'll go for it myself. They can't ignore
me not violating the law forever.:cool: But as long as the court personnel and cops
keep giving their guns to criminals in the court house I know I will not disarm
myself. They can dismiss the charges if they don't want me there.
 

Bhamrichard

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RustyFalcon wrote:
Last time I renewed my AL concealed carry permit at the Madison County Courthouse I had some extra time when done. Might do it for this renewal again. Hmmm.

So I took the time to go to the Sheriff's office and ask point blank "Under what authority is it permissible for the guards at the doors of this courthouse to disarm me when I am carry a weapon legally per the Alabama Code?"

Answer. "The Sheriff makes the rules for protecting the courthouse best as he can. The Sheriff does not allow non law enforcement personnel to carry weapons in the courthouse under any circumstance. State law allows him to do this. Are you interested in working with Madison County law enforcement?"

So there you go. In Madison County - the Sheriff trumps the state code.
Not exactly true. Under the state code, the Sheriff of each county is allowed to set reasonable restrictions on where a firearm can be carried. He/She does not 'trump' state code, the Sheriff is specifically authorized under it.
 

49er

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Not exactly true. Under the state code, the Sheriff of each county is allowed to set reasonable restrictions on where a firearm can be carried. He/She does not 'trump' state code, the Sheriff is specifically authorized under it.


I see your state code and raise Section 36 of the Constitution of Alabama 1901. The Constitution 'trumps' state code. Powers of sheriffs fall under the general powers of government, don't they??
 

Monkeytown

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Bhamrichard wrote:
RustyFalcon wrote:
Last time I renewed my AL concealed carry permit at the Madison County Courthouse I had some extra time when done. Might do it for this renewal again. Hmmm.

So I took the time to go to the Sheriff's office and ask point blank "Under what authority is it permissible for the guards at the doors of this courthouse to disarm me when I am carry a weapon legally per the Alabama Code?"

Answer. "The Sheriff makes the rules for protecting the courthouse best as he can. The Sheriff does not allow non law enforcement personnel to carry weapons in the courthouse under any circumstance. State law allows him to do this. Are you interested in working with Madison County law enforcement?"

So there you go. In Madison County - the Sheriff trumps the state code.
Not exactly true. Under the state code, the Sheriff of each county is allowed to set reasonable restrictions on where a firearm can be carried. He/She does not 'trump' state code, the Sheriff is specifically authorized under it.
Actually under state code 11-45-1.1 "The entire subject matter of handguns is reserved to the State legislature." All the sheriff can do is issue permits.
 

REB

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Monkeytownwrote

"Actually under state code 11-45-1.1 "The entire subject matter of handguns is reserved to the State legislature." All the sheriff can do is issue permits."

The matter of handguns is reserved to the state legislature and the legislature under 13A-11-75 gives the sheriff the authority to issue you a "qualified or unlimited" license. The term qualified licenses has long been upheld to mean the sheriff can limit your license to what you carry and where you can carry it. I don't like it anymore than you do but that is current Alabama law. This appliesto concealed carry only.
 

SlackwareRobert

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I never even thought of using 'Brass Bullets', where to get some with
little knuckles on them. Doesn't say what they have to hit and expand
so if you shoot a brick and it expands I guess they are legal.

Should be interesting, as to prove they are illegal they would have to
destroy the evidence. Then if they do expand they are liable for the destruction
of private property under color of law.
 
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