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Thread: A Virginia CHP is a kind of CWP/CCW Permit/CC License

  1. #1
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    ...people look to us (OC'ers as an "authority"). So IMHO, I think it is important that I (or we if you agree) call the permits CHP's instead of CCWs, Magazines instead of clips and (here we go) guns, pistols, kimbers, glocks, ect. instead of WEAPONS.

    Clips aren't magazines, and magazines aren't clips, so that's an entirely different kettle of fish.

    On the other hand, guns are indeed weapons, so it's not inherently wrong to call them that. I happen to not use the term regularly because I think it can cast an unfavorable light on firearms when we call them weapons, but it's certainly not an incorrect term.

    The same goes for CHP vs CWP or CCW permit or CC license, or other similar generic terms. The CHP is the Virginia-specific version of a concealed carry license. Calling it a CWP isn't wrong, because it is a permit to carry a concealed weapon (your handgun). Just because it doesn't cover all weapons doesn't change the fact that it does allow you to carry a concealed weapon.

    Hell, even in states where they're officially called Concealed Weapon Permits, it doesn't allow the permittee to carry any damn weapon they so choose. It's no different here other than the specific type of weapon permitted.

    Sure, it's worthwhile, in some contexts, to emphasize that the Virginia permit only covers handguns, but not every damn time someone mentions a permit. It's usually not pertinent to the topic at hand, and only gets in the way of the main discussion. And that's why I think the incessant drumbeat about "It's a CHP, not a CWP" is a mistake, because it illuminates nothing and hinders understanding.

    So anyway, the TLDR version is: it's wrong to call a magazine a clip, because a magazine isn't a clip. It's not wrong to call something specific by its generic term because it's still a part of that generic class. A CHP is a type of CWP, and a gun is a type of weapon.

    Just my opinion, of course. You're allowed to be wrong, Ed, as you've proved so many times. :P

    ~ Boyd

    I kid, I kid!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    This is waaaay down on the list of things that are important, but using correct terminology is never a bad thing. To not do so just shows that we are ignorant of our own subject matter.

    As long as it's done in a spirit of education and not malice or ridicule, I don't have a problem with it at all, even if it happens every day. I would like to think that we have new readers every day, and if one or two people learn something new each time a reminder like this is posted, then it's well worth the time and effort to do so.

    And that's just MHO!

    TFred


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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding this topic but here and on other gun websites. Some of my pet peeves are also magazines vs clips, pistols vs revolvers, and the big one; semi-automatic rifles vs assault rifles. If we use the correct acronym for our Virginia concealed carry permits, it would have to be PCCH (Permit to Carry a Concealed Handgun) since that follows the accepted acronym translation of the permit's title. But that makes little sense to most, so it has been shortened and turned around to be CHP. I certainly have no problem with that one.

    Now as for weapon, if we accept current definitions of the term then a handgun is indeed a weapon. However in the more classic sense, a weapon was deemed to be an offensive arm if I'm not mistaken, and handguns were classed as defensive arms. So what is it really? I tend to use "weapon" a lot of times when referring to my sidearm, but I imagine that is not entirely correct.

    Comments and corrections are most appreciated with this.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    This is waaaay down on the list of things that are important, but using correct terminology is never a bad thing. To not do so just shows that we are ignorant of our own subject matter.

    As long as it's done in a spirit of education and not malice or ridicule, I don't have a problem with it at all, even if it happens every day. I would like to think that we have new readers every day, and if one or two people learn something new each time a reminder like this is posted, then it's well worth the time and effort to do so.

    And that's just MHO!

    TFred
    That's true Fred and I agree it's low on the "worr about list"...but it seems to concern Boyd. I assume it was triggered by Ed's earlier post. In that light, I also agree with Boyd, that CHP/CWP/CCW is a little nitpicky too.

    Even the clip/magazine issue gets old after a while.
    So what if the terminology isn't spot on the mark. Usually, it's used in a question about something else and we can spend so much time correcting the syntax, the mqin question doesn't get answered....or the answer gets lost in the firestorm.

    FWIW, my first permit didn't state what I could carry and the code said "Weapons". When I renewed it, the judge said "Pistol". The next renewal again said nothing about the type of weapon....It was "Handgun after that".

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    using correct terminology is never a bad thing. To not do so just shows that we are ignorant of our own subject matter.
    You made my point better than I did. Thank You.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding this topic but here and on other gun websites. Some of my pet peeves are also magazines vs clips, pistols vs revolvers, and the big one; semi-automatic rifles vs assault rifles. If we use the correct acronym for our Virginia concealed carry permits, it would have to be PCCH (Permit to Carry a Concealed Handgun) since that follows the accepted acronym translation of the permit's title. But that makes little sense to most, so it has been shortened and turned around to be CHP. I certainly have no problem with that one.

    Now as for weapon, if we accept current definitions of the term then a handgun is indeed a weapon. However in the more classic sense, a weapon was deemed to be an offensive arm if I'm not mistaken, and handguns were classed as defensive arms. So what is it really? I tend to use "weapon" a lot of times when referring to my sidearm, but I imagine that is not entirely correct.

    Comments and corrections are most appreciated with this.
    In VA legis code it is called both a "Permit to Carry a Concealed Handgun" as well as "Concealed Handgun Permit".

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    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    ...using correct terminology is never a bad thing. To not do so just shows that we are ignorant of our own subject matter.
    But that's my point, Fred. It is a permit to carry a concealed weapon. It's just that the weapon must only be a handgun. The term isn't incorrect, it's just more generic.

    ~ Boyd

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    TFred wrote:
    using correct terminology is never a bad thing. To not do so just shows that we are ignorant of our own subject matter.

    As long as it's done in a spirit of education and not malice or ridicule, I don't have a problem with it at all, even if it happens every day. I would like to think that we have new readers every day, and if one or two people learn something new each time a reminder like this is posted, then it's well worth the time and effort to do so.
    Yeah, I agree - the reason to use the more precise terminology as best you can, and especially drive out of our lexicon the very vague and frankly unhelpful terms like "CCW" (alternative meaning the permit, the weapon, orthe action of concealing, etc.) is so that we can more effectively communicate with the general population and th press - if we communicate like monks or military planners in a language of funny latin words or acronyms known only to us, its no wonder the average person and member of the press, and yes even the police, do not understand the scope of gun rights in our country.

    Practice usingclear and direct unemtional and non-confrontational communication. Try to use the correct term for each state's license, but never non-sensical terms like "CCW."



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    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    So, you think "CHP" is less nonsensical than "CCW?"

    ~ Boyd

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    TFred wrote: if we communicate like monks or military planners in a language of funny latin words or acronyms known only to us, its no wonder the average person and member of the press, and yes even the police, do not understand the scope of gun rights in our country.

    Practice usingclear and direct unemtional and non-confrontational communication. Try to use the correct term for each state's license, but never non-sensical terms like "CCW."

    Lord save us....Did a future lawyer just say that?????????????

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I think that its important to use the correct term CHP as there are items enumerated under 308 that are illegal concealed weapons. Too many people dont study the law and they may believe that the permit entitles hem to carry Chinese throwing stars and switchblades.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    peter nap wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    TFred wrote: if we communicate like monks or military planners in a language of funny latin words or acronyms known only to us, its no wonder the average person and member of the press, and yes even the police, do not understand the scope of gun rights in our country.

    Practice usingclear and direct unemtional and non-confrontational communication. Try to use the correct term for each state's license, but never non-sensical terms like "CCW."

    Lord save us....Did a future lawyer just say that?????????????
    Thought he was graduated.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    nova wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding this topic but here and on other gun websites. Some of my pet peeves are also magazines vs clips, pistols vs revolvers, and the big one; semi-automatic rifles vs assault rifles. If we use the correct acronym for our Virginia concealed carry permits, it would have to be PCCH (Permit to Carry a Concealed Handgun) since that follows the accepted acronym translation of the permit's title. But that makes little sense to most, so it has been shortened and turned around to be CHP. I certainly have no problem with that one.

    Now as for weapon, if we accept current definitions of the term then a handgun is indeed a weapon. However in the more classic sense, a weapon was deemed to be an offensive arm if I'm not mistaken, and handguns were classed as defensive arms. So what is it really? I tend to use "weapon" a lot of times when referring to my sidearm, but I imagine that is not entirely correct.

    Comments and corrections are most appreciated with this.
    In VA legis code it is called both a "Permit to Carry a Concealed Handgun" as well as "Concealed Handgun Permit".
    I was reading the text right off of my permit. Most of the time, I use the term CCW in casual conversation because most (interested) people seem to know that that means. When writing on this or other sites, I most always refer to the Virginia permit as a CHP.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    nova wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding this topic but here and on other gun websites. Some of my pet peeves are also magazines vs clips, pistols vs revolvers, and the big one; semi-automatic rifles vs assault rifles. If we use the correct acronym for our Virginia concealed carry permits, it would have to be PCCH (Permit to Carry a Concealed Handgun) since that follows the accepted acronym translation of the permit's title. But that makes little sense to most, so it has been shortened and turned around to be CHP. I certainly have no problem with that one.

    Now as for weapon, if we accept current definitions of the term then a handgun is indeed a weapon. However in the more classic sense, a weapon was deemed to be an offensive arm if I'm not mistaken, and handguns were classed as defensive arms. So what is it really? I tend to use "weapon" a lot of times when referring to my sidearm, but I imagine that is not entirely correct.

    Comments and corrections are most appreciated with this.
    In VA legis code it is called both a "Permit to Carry a Concealed Handgun" as well as "Concealed Handgun Permit".
    I was reading the text right off of my permit. Most of the time, I use the term CCW in casual conversation because most (interested) people seem to know that that means. When writing on this or other sites, I most always refer to the Virginia permit as a CHP.
    I gotcha I was just saying even VA code calls it more than just one name though they refer obviously to the same thing. I make sure to use the "proper" terms whenever possible.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I know, I'm guilty of being anally retentive about the clip/magazine thing along with the semi-auto rifle/assault weapon thing.

    It really does drive me up the wall, but after years of therapy (retirement), I'm really getting better about it than I used to be...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    When I see "CHP", I think California Highway Patrol (with Eric Estrada!).

    When I see "CCP", I think someone left off a "C" and are referring to some cold-war-era thing or other.

    When I see "CCW", I think they are referring to professional wrestling.

    I refer to my concealed handgun permit as a "concealed handgun permit", or a "concealed weapon permit". If the police and the courts are comfortable referring to it as such (there is a sorting box in the Henrico Clerk Of Court office with the sign, "Concealed Weapon Permits"), that seems adequate to me.

    Not everything needs to be made into an incomprehensible acronym.


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    bblackmoor wrote:
    When I see "CHP", I think California Highway Patrol (with Eric Estrada!).

    When I see "CCP", I think someone left off a "C" and are referring to some cold-war-era thing or other.

    When I see "CCW", I think they are referring to professional wrestling.

    I refer to my concealed handgun permit as a "concealed handgun permit", or a "concealed weapon permit". If the police and the courts are comfortable referring to it as such (there is a sorting box in the Henrico Clerk Of Court office with the sign, "Concealed Weapon Permits"), that seems adequate to me.

    Not everything needs to be made into an incomprehensible acronym.
    IMHO YMBR, CWP = CHP, IANA but OCDO mods and PVC/VCDL agree whether you OC or CC its RKBA & 2A that's +, YMMV.

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    IMHO YMBR, CWP = CHP, IANA but OCDO mods and PVC/VCDL agree whether you OC or CC its RKBA & 2A that's +, YMMV.
    I got about half of that.

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    bblackmoor wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    IMHO YMBR, CWP = CHP, IANA but OCDO mods and PVC/VCDL agree whether you OC or CC its RKBA & 2A that's +, YMMV.
    I got about half of that.
    In my humble opinion you might be right, concealed weapons permit = concealed handgun permit, I am not an attorney but opencarry.org moderators and Philip Van Cleave/Virginia Citizens Defense League agree whether you open carry or concealed carry its your Right to Keep and Bear Arms and the Second Amendment that is a plus, your mileage may vary (individual results may be different).

    Acronyms save time and space + they constitute our super secret code.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  20. #20
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    nachronymsbblackmoor wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    IMHO YMBR, CWP = CHP, IANA but OCDO mods and PVC/VCDL agree whether you OC or CC its RKBA & 2A that's +, YMMV.
    I got about half of that.
    In my humble opinion you might be right, concealed weapons permit = concealed handgun permit, I am not an attorney but opencarry.org moderators and Philip Van Cleave/Virginia Citizens Defense League agree whether you open carry or concealed carry its your Right to Keep and Bear Arms and the Second Amendment that is a plus, your mileage may vary (individual results may be different).

    Acronyms save time and space + they constitute our super secret code.

    Yata hey
    Now THAT was funnychit. Thanks for the daily laugh out loud!

    msc

    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    nova wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding this topic but here and on other gun websites. Some of my pet peeves are also magazines vs clips, pistols vs revolvers, and the big one; semi-automatic rifles vs assault rifles. If we use the correct acronym for our Virginia concealed carry permits, it would have to be PCCH (Permit to Carry a Concealed Handgun) since that follows the accepted acronym translation of the permit's title. But that makes little sense to most, so it has been shortened and turned around to be CHP. I certainly have no problem with that one.

    Now as for weapon, if we accept current definitions of the term then a handgun is indeed a weapon. However in the more classic sense, a weapon was deemed to be an offensive arm if I'm not mistaken, and handguns were classed as defensive arms. So what is it really? I tend to use "weapon" a lot of times when referring to my sidearm, but I imagine that is not entirely correct.

    Comments and corrections are most appreciated with this.
    In VA legis code it is called both a "Permit to Carry a Concealed Handgun" as well as "Concealed Handgun Permit".
    Oh, a PTCACH. That has a ring to it... pee-tee-catch.

    It's proper when you want to use an acronym that in the first usage you preface it with the words spelled out like so: A Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP) is a Permit To Carry A Concealed Handgun (PTCACH). Then you may use CHP and PTCACH independently.

    Online forums and mailing lists are different in that they're like one long, ongoing document where the acronyms should have already been spelled out once a long time ago. Common acronyms in use on Open Carry Dot Org (OCDO), no matter which sub-forum, should probably be defined in the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) section.

    Something like this, with the local jargon, would be helpful for some people.

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    This rabbit trail is helpful to us new folks. We have some awesome State Police, Town Police Dept. and Sheriff's Office here locally, and I want to be technically accurate when I run into them and need to chat regarding my open carry.

    Also, when it comes to responding to OC-related questions or comments from the general public, it is beneficial to know the legal terms as well as commonly used phrases to better explain the Open Carry environment here in our state.

    Finally, when traveling out of state, it is good to know the difference between the generic and specific.


    Common acronyms in use on Open Carry Dot Org (OCDO), no matter which sub-forum, should probably be defined in the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) section.
    This is an excellent idea - I spent some time looking around for a list of commonly-used terms (glossary) when I first became interested in OC/CC. Having a community-fed and moderated glossary/acronym list would be very helpful and reduce the amount of time I spend searching for definitions.

    IMHO YMBR, CWP = CHP, IANA but OCDO mods and PVC/VCDL agree whether you OC or CC its RKBA & 2A that's +, YMMV.
    Ok...now your just killing me...

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Regular_Joe wrote:
    Common acronyms in use on Open Carry Dot Org (OCDO), no matter which sub-forum, should probably be defined in the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) section.
    This is an excellent idea - I spent some time looking around for a list of commonly-used terms (glossary) when I first became interested in OC/CC. Having a community-fed and moderated glossary/acronym list would be very helpful and reduce the amount of time I spend searching for definitions.
    Here are a couple of helpful threads:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...light=acronyms

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/13705.html

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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