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Thread: 2 more Wisconsin articles re open carry movment (August 30, 2009)

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    http://www.sheboyganpress.com/articl...908300456/1882

    Shawn Clark column: Outdoors and politics mix on many issues

    August 30, 2009

    SNIP

    Conceal carry is another hot button issue, and will only get hotter as 2010 gets closer. It's clear gun owners lost their bid to protect themselves from Gov. Doyle's veto, and our own Terry Van Akkkeren helped to uphold the veto the last time it came up. Open carry is an option, but at this point it's not real popular with Wisconsin residents despite it being perfectly legal.

    --

    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/...aws-considered

    Changes to open carry laws considered
    Communities look at gun ordinances after statement from state attorney general
    By Patti Zarling • pzarling@greenbaypressgazette.com • August 30, 2009

    Many communities in the Green Bay area are taking a close look at their firearms ordinances.

    The review comes a few months after Wisconsin Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen issued a statement saying state statutes did not indicate that openly carrying a firearm is illegal and that the state constitution gives people the right to keep and bear arms.

    The rule means guns can be carried in public within municipal limits, as long as they meet a number of guidelines. They must be holstered and in plain view and they cannot be taken into a school zone, public building or a place where alcohol is bought or consumed.

    De Pere recently reversed its law that prohibited people from openly carrying firearms to meet state statutes.

    Green Bay didn't have a law prohibiting people from openly carrying holstered firearms. But a City Council committee recently gave preliminary approval to a plan to ban guns from being openly carried in city parks.

    The draft ordinance is similar to a state law banning guns in state parks, according to assistant city attorney Tony Wachewicz.

    Under state law, brandishing a firearm or carrying it concealed still is illegal. So is firing a weapon, although communities have some exceptions.

    Green Bay and De Pere, for instance, allow shooting if you've received state and municipal permission to kill a nuisance animal. Green Bay allows shooting in a licensed shooting gallery, and De Pere allows duck hunting in the Fox River in some parts of the city.

    Leaders in other communities, such as Allouez and Ashwaubenon, are considering changes to their firearms ordinances.

    Ashwaubenon is drafting an ordinance, and Allouez likely will review its law that forbids firearms from being carried unless they're in a case.

    Bellevue administrator Aaron Oppenheimer said the village's attorney is reviewing its law for a potential change. It currently bans uncased firearms from being carried in certain areas of the village.

    Officials in Howard, which bans carrying, using or discharging a firearm or dangerous weapon in the village, have talked internally about changes, but haven't officially considered the ordinance, said assistant administrator Adam Helms.

    (2 of 2)

    The village of Suamico and Brown County already conform to the state law.



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    Although open carry is legal, local police said it isn't common and acknowledge that they might question a person carrying a gun.

    "We don't run into it too often," Brown County Sheriff's Chief Deputy John Gossage said. "But if someone is walking down the street with a gun, we may ask them about it. It is out of the norm to see someone doing that.

    "When people see that, it is a concern for them. We'd have to investigate on a case-by-case basis. They do have a right to carry a gun."

    Police rarely see it, said Capt. Todd Thomas of the Green Bay Police Department.

    An officer wouldn't necessarily stop and question a person legally carrying a gun, but might if the circumstances were suspicious, Thomas said.

    "So much of it is incident-specific — time of day, where you're at, things like that," he said.

    Ashwaubenon Public Safety Chief Eric Dunning expects citizens will call police if they see someone with a gun.

    "If we receive a complaint, we have to investigate. We can ask who they are and, if they're not doing anything illegal, let them go about their business."

    The village of Suamico and Brown County already conform to the state law.

    Although open carry is legal, local police said it isn't common and acknowledge that they might question a person carrying a gun.

    "We don't run into it too often," Brown County Sheriff's Chief Deputy John Gossage said. "But if someone is walking down the street with a gun, we may ask them about it. It is out of the norm to see someone doing that.

    "When people see that, it is a concern for them. We'd have to investigate on a case-by-case basis. They do have a right to carry a gun."

    Police rarely see it, said Capt. Todd Thomas of the Green Bay Police Department.

    An officer wouldn't necessarily stop and question a person legally carrying a gun, but might if the circumstances were suspicious, Thomas said.

    "So much of it is incident-specific — time of day, where you're at, things like that," he said.

    Ashwaubenon Public Safety Chief Eric Dunning expects citizens will call police if they see someone with a gun.

    "If we receive a complaint, we have to investigate. We can ask who they are and, if they're not doing anything illegal, let them go about their business."

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    Ashwaubenon Public Safety Chief Eric Dunning expects citizens will call police if they see someone with a gun.
    could be interpreted as

    Ashwaubenon Public Safety Chief Eric Dunning expects citizens will call police to facilitate harassment of peaceful law abiding gun owners, if they see someone with a gun.
    This game is going to get really boring for your responding officers .

    "If we receive a complaint, we have to investigate. We can ask who they are and, if they're not doing anything illegal, let them go about their business."
    Mr. Dunning. With all due respect, no you don't. You can ask the complainant questions about the "incident", as to the behavior and actions of the open carrier. If the weapon is holstered, and the person is going about his or her business not threatening anyone with it, why do you choose to waste the taxpayers dime to harass peaceful law abiding gun owners? On the other hand, if the complainant indicates the MWG is waving the gun around, or shooting at people, then you have something to be concerned about.


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    So what are the laws in Wisconsin? Is one allowed to carry guns openly? I live here and just got a handgun. I'm thirty years old, always supported the second ammendment, but never bought one bc I don't like shooting particularly and I'm not a hunter or anything. With the increasing encroachment on liberty (not just in regards to guns) I finally decided to get one a month ago.



    Any help or direction I might look would be great. On the map, it just said it was anomalous.

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    XBadger wrote:
    So what are the laws in Wisconsin? Is one allowed to carry guns openly? I live here and just got a handgun. I'm thirty years old, always supported the second ammendment, but never bought one bc I don't like shooting particularly and I'm not a hunter or anything. With the increasing encroachment on liberty (not just in regards to guns) I finally decided to get one a month ago.



    Any help or direction I might look would be great. On the map, it just said it was anomalous.
    Welcome to OCDO Wisconsin XBadger. XBadger as in ex-Badger stater. or are you in Wisconsin (which is to suggest that you update your profile to include your location).

    Not only are we allowed to carry openly, it is guaranteed by Secton I, Article 25 of the Wisconsin Constitution. We are prohibited concealed carry by Wisconsin Statutes Chapter 941.23.

    I am pleased that you support the Second Amendment without being a hunter or particularly liking shooting. The Second Amendment is not about hunting or shooting but is about the Right to Keep And Bear Arms which shall not be infringed. The Wisc. Constitution demands that we may KABA for all lawful purposes.

    All of the laws of the State of Wisconsin are listed here http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/Statutes.html and the regulations here http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/codtoc.html Unfortunately there are an overwhelming number of laws and regulations, and guns/firearms' regulations are scattered throughout, even in home care regulations.

    Unfortunately there are many individuals and organizations that seek to profit from our desires to be legally armed citizens by selling information and training that is not theirs to sell or not required - yet. They are jockeying for legislative influence to create the legal requirement for a state permit to carry a gun. Beware and be skeptical, they are good old fashioned snake-oil salesmen.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth.

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    I thank you very, very much. I am definately going to be carrying in that case. I am actually up in Appleton. I couldn't agree more with you about the right to bear arms. I actually recently got a PhD in German history from the Unviersity of Wisconsin, and can say that I am all too aware of the importance of liberty and of the fact that guns are an "easy" thing for politicians to go after. Thanks so much again, and I am certainly happy that I found this site.



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    Welcome Doctor XBadger.

    In addition to all of our other challenges in Wisconsin this (sub)forum features a strong anti-intellectual and anti-elite bias that confounds many discussions. It has been said here that education and intelligence are some how 'opposites'. Unfortunately I have more intelligence than education.

    Some of my favorite (to speak of) German influences on me are Ferdinand Toennies and Karl Popper. From UWM, Alexander Meiklejohn - not German but influential.

    My daughter has just taken her first job as a (earned) Doctor of Pharmacy. I've teased her about going on for a defended doctorate.

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    A "permit" or "license" to carry a gun, by definition, is not a right to carry, it's a privilege, and should not stand a constitutional challenge.

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    Statesman wrote:
    A "permit" or "license" to carry a gun, by definition, is not a right to carry, it's a privilege, and should not stand a constitutional challenge.
    Normative and prescriptive statements, often characterized by 'would', 'should' and 'could', do not have truth values, are not falsifiable and are not scientific (after Sir Karl Popper).

    It is better to make positive statements, even of non-existence. 'It will not stand a constitutional challenge.' This statement is falsifiable.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Statesman wrote:
    A "permit" or "license" to carry a gun, by definition, is not a right to carry, it's a privilege, and should not stand a constitutional challenge.
    Normative and prescriptive statements, often characterized by 'would', 'should' and 'could', do not have truth values, are not falsifiable and are not scientific (after Sir Karl Popper).

    It is better to make positive statements, even of non-existence. 'It will not stand a constitutional challenge.' This statement is falsifiable.
    The statement is not meant to be scientific. Noone can guarantee the votes of our liberal Supreme court justices will be in constitutional favor.

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    Well, it seems like a few inches have been gained.

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