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Thread: Convincing the g/f

  1. #1
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    So this doesn't have to do with open carry necessarily, but it does have to do with carrying. Let me lay out the situation here for you guys.

    Tonight, my girlfriend informed me that two of her roommates have told her they "feel uncomfortable" with me coming in carrying a gun they can see. She asked if I could leave it in the car. Now just to let you guys know, I open carry everywhere I'm allowed and all the time (when allowed). The only time I conceal is at work because my boss is concerned it "might frighten" all our friendly liberal customers. So I told her I'm really uncomfortable with leaving it in the car. So they asked if I could at least cover it up when I'm there. As if my shirt is bulletproof and the big lump on my hip wouldn't remind them that it's still there.

    All of this brought up the conversation of my girlfriend having a gun. So discussing this between myself and her, she said she could care less either way if I give her my old .380 to keep in her desk. I told her she doesn't have to let them know she has it unless the situation arose where she needed to use it. And if they had a problem with it then... then tell the BG to proceed with doing what he felt appropriate with the other two girls and use the gun to defend herself haha. Anyway, the g/f is a very trusting, "it'll never happen" to me kind of person. Her excuse is: She doesn't believe the chance of someone breaking into her apt is very likely while they're there. Now this is a small apt that she shares w/ three other tiny college age (and obama lovers), not see-able from the main road, glass sliding door (that apparently they feel is invincible because they have a bar they keep in it from sliding AND a impenetrable plastic-looking lock!!! watch out BGs, that take ten seconds to get through. Anyway, she's not against it, but thinks the chance of something like that happening is very low.

    What I'm asking from y'all is if anyone knows where I can find break in statistics, rape statistics, etc that will help prove my point to her and possibly even her roommates. My goal here is to show them why not have one, just in case. They all seem to think it's a macho thing and no good to them. We've all come across it before. But with the age they are it seems like it proposes more of a challenge to get past their all-knowing, infinite university wisdom. Thanks ahead of time.

  2. #2
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I think its very sad your g/f has brainwashed socialist friends, but that's water under the bridge. I'm sorry to say my 18 year old OCing daughter isn't available for the "rent-a-roomate" program in Charlottesville. She graduates this year. Some of her friends are afraid of firearms, but have admitted to her that they do feel safer when she's around. Unfortunately, they aren't quite ready to OC too.

    I don't know your AOR, but here's something I found in a 5-second search...

    http://spotcrime.com/va/charlottesville

    You may be able to find more info at your local PD station on past history, etc. Also check your library. Ask the Reference Desk Librarian where you can find local crime statistics. They're usually more than willing to help. I know our local libraries are great at helping someone find what they're looking for. Do you have a library card? If not, you should get one. Many universities also let the "locals" have library cards, too. I imagine UVA has a great library.

    Good luck!

    Semper Paratus

    msc
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
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    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
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  3. #3
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I was just playing around with that interactive map I sent. Between 8/1 and 8/23, there were FIVE shootings in that area. I think that is PLENTY to justify your OCing. Seems to be a lot of hit & run accidents and reports of suspicious persons/vehicles.

    It seems theres a LOT more going in there that I suspected. It isn't DC, but it ain't Mayberry, either!
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    haha it is a good map. My friend and I at work usually check it out every few days. And according to the albemarle county police website report, firearm related incidents are higher within the first few months this year than the whole year prior. If that's not reason alone I don't know what is. She was saying a few months ago she wanted to carry one in her purse when she turned 21, but she doesn't like confrontation and she says my OCing causes "unneeded attention". I tell her I like the questions because it gives me a chance to educate people. I think her friends are just getting to her.

    Does your daughter go to UVA?? I noticed you said she was only 18 but graduating. I'm taking it high school? We could use young people like her here in Cville w/ all the liberal college kids I get a lot of looks. But being not a lot older than most I feel sometimes gives me a one up and a chance to reach them before they're all taught the EVILLLLLS OF THA SELF FIRING FIRE STICKS!!! haha.



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    Wasn't there a serial rapist issue in Charlottesville/UVA area last year?

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    i think he was tried last year, but was in town for several years prior. although i think some on rugby (frat row) might come close to qualifying. I see girls running alone in dark shady places all the time. I want to just ask them how dumb they can be. lol

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Proud... PM sent.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    STATISTICS ARE IRRELEVANT!!!

    Tell yourself that, in no uncertain terms! Otherwise, you'll end up talking about numbers and statistical probabilities until you are both blue in the face. She isn't stupid, and probably isn't ignorant, so just hammering away with facts will be very frustrating for you and aggravating for her.

    She is likely suffering from liberallogic, which is largely impervious to the facts. Feeling states are largely the cause of this state of mind, and the approach to dealing with it also involves manipulation of feelings.

    Here's one fact, however: if she is a victim or a rape or murder, she will be a 100% victim, and the "retrospective likelihood" will have been 100% in her case as well. Those are the only statistics that matter.

    If she "feels" she is safe where she is, fine. So be it. Does she wear seat belts? If so, ask her to tell you which streets are the "safe ones" so she can make a list of the places where seal belts are unnessessary. Ask her if she would "feel safe" removing her belts on these streets. No? Why not?

    Her "feeling safe" in her appt. is no excuse for making believe nothing bad can ever happen, and asking you to disarm yourself because carrying makes others "feel" uncomfortable" is akin to her asking people riding in her car to not wear selt belts because "these roads are safe" and belts therefore make her "feel uncomfortable".

    You need to put your foot down here, sir. If you care about your safety and hers, don't get wrapped up in useless, unwinnable arguments about stats.



  9. #9
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    STATISTICS ARE IRRELEVANT!!!

    Tell yourself that, in no uncertain terms! Otherwise, you'll end up talking about numbers and statistical probabilities until you are both blue in the face. She isn't stupid, and probably isn't ignorant, so just hammering away with facts will be very frustrating for you and aggravating for her.

    She is likely suffering from liberallogic, which is largely impervious to the facts. Feeling states are largely the cause of this state of mind, and the approach to dealing with it also involves manipulation of feelings.

    Here's one fact, however: if she is a victim or a rape or murder, she will be a 100% victim, and the "retrospective likelihood" will have been 100% in her case as well. Those are the only statistics that matter.

    If she "feels" she is safe where she is, fine. So be it. Does she wear seat belts? If so, ask her to tell you which streets are the "safe ones" so she can make a list of the places where seal belts are unnessessary. Ask her if she would "feel safe" removing her belts on these streets. No? Why not?

    Her "feeling safe" in her appt. is no excuse for making believe nothing bad can ever happen, and asking you to disarm yourself because carrying makes others "feel" uncomfortable" is akin to her asking people riding in her car to not wear selt belts because "these roads are safe" and belts therefore make her "feel uncomfortable".

    You need to put your foot down here, sir. If you care about your safety and hers, don't get wrapped up in useless, unwinnable arguments about stats.

    +1. The wise man has spoken.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  10. #10
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    My oldest daughter went to UVA. In her second year, she lived off campus in what I believe were duplex apartments not far from campus with two other girls, one of which was a long time friend. The other girl was raped at knife point and fortunately for her, it was a simple rape; i.e., she was not beaten, stabbed, nor did her attacker try to kill her. Her parents pulled her out of the school.

    Also during I believe my daughter's freshman year there,a professor (I think I have this right) was shot and killed going to his car in a parking lot.

    Charlottesville has its crime problems and its share of feel-good, victim-drenched, mush-head students. A perfect match for BGs to ply their trade.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    The only statistic you need is any local media outlet. Criminals are known for picking out the weak and vulnerable. Just look at any newscast or newspaper all the information you could ever need is there.

    Some may say the odds are against you. I say the odds are for you not being victimized.

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    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    I know you didn't ask about this, but I have to wonder if it's a good idea to keep a loaded gun, or even unloaded with a magazine handy, in an unsecured desk drawer when three residents of the house who have no experience or ability with handing a firearm. At the very least, I'd recommend a Gun Vault to keep it in.

    ~ Boyd

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    There was a great article a few months ago about a guy who was at a party and two guys broke into the apartment separated the men and the women...threatened to rape all of the women and kill all of the men. But because he was carrying a gun in his backpack he shot and killed both (I think) of the men and saved everyone from being killed and/or raped. I bet those girls felt safe in that apartment. I bet they thought it could NEVER happen to them. They too WERE invincible but now probably see the value in having a gun for safety purposes.

  14. #14
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    Just ask her if she believes that the students at VT or of ANY violent crime felt that they too were safe BEFORE the violent crime occurred. My friend is like that too. He lives in Woodbridge which isn't really that safe and he thinks that he is safe because he's lived here for 30 years and never needed a gun. Therefor it is silly that I feel the need for one. But I'm sure EVERYONE who gets raped, threatened at gun point or even murdered felt prior to the assault that they were safe and would never need a gun. Its hard getting through to these left wing college kids. I agree that statistics will mean nothing. You have to break through to them with what they understand which is "feelings". Especially left wing girls. That is all that they know and understand. I don't envy you at all and I sincerely wish you good luck. If you can convince them at all I will be very impressed. LOL. They have been trained to be victims by all accounts.

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    And lastly...this is why I make sure any girl I date is first and foremost not a bleeding heart liberal. They must at least be tolerable and open minded to conservatism and guns or the date ends right then and there. I also prefer to take them to the range on one of the first dates to see how they react to guns and to see if they don't like them more after having shot them.

    Maybe thats something you can do...take her to the shooting range and have her shoot them. You can change a lot of people's opinions on guns by taking them to the range and letting them touch, hold and shoot the gun. They learn to associate FUN with the gun rather than just violence.

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    richarcm wrote:
    There was a great article a few months ago about a guy who was at a party and two guys broke into the apartment separated the men and the women...threatened to rape all of the women and kill all of the men. But because he was carrying a gun in his backpack he shot and killed both (I think) of the men and saved everyone from being killed and/or raped. I bet those girls felt safe in that apartment. I bet they thought it could NEVER happen to them. They too WERE invincible but now probably see the value in having a gun for safety purposes.
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...h+bullets+rape

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    Let's try to get back on topic.

    1 - you are a guest in the apartment. My question is: are all three named on the lease? If not, who is? If all three are named on the lease then I'd say themajority rules and you should not carry when visiting. If your GF is not the one named on the lease then see the previous statement. IF your GF is the one named on the lease then it's up to her and the other two can either accept it or look for another place to live. If they choose option #2 your GF may not like the additional expense her decision has created, but that's her problem until she brings it to you -- which if I were a betting man I would bet she will do.

    2 - Why do you want to force (give her when she has not asked for it) a handgun on your GF? Just because you have gone through the mental/emotional/rational/long talk with $diety process of deciding that possessing a handgun and OCing are right for you does not mean it is right for anybody else.

    Veering slightly OT for 3 - A .380?!!?:what: srsly, dood! WTF were you thinking? THe .380 has waay too much recoil for her to be able to tolerate, and it is such a wimpy round that even though it will go through schools a mile away it will not penetrate a BG and will just make him madder. :P OK -- so much for the comedy. Probably the best way known to screw up a relationship and turn off a new female shooter (works well with the guys too) is to tell them "this is what you need because I said so." If nothing else, look at www.corneredcat.com and read what she has to say about selecting a gun for your woman.

    4 - Until you and the GF move in together/get married there are going to be times when you simply cannot be there to be her knight in shining OC. While you may want to be, it sounds like she is not yet at the point where she wants you to be/is willing to alllow you to be her personal bodyguard. That can really suck if you are at the point of wanting to protect her from dragons and BGs. You probably need to discuss this concept with her.

    5 - As has been mentioned before, folks do not generally decide to up and get a handgun for self defense because of statistics. Yes, seeing and understanding the numbers can help drive one to the decision but in reality it does come down to an emotional decision. You made that decision that you were "better off" carrying than not carrying. So far it seems your GF has made the decision that she is "better off" not thinking about the issue very much. You can "force" her to talk about the subject, but you cannot force her to think about it or force her to accept your conclusions or force her to accept your conclusions as being applicable to her as well as to you. Trying will probably result in a resolution you might not want - being told the relationship is over and you are severely lacking in -- do I really need to run down that list?

    Finally, a HINT - tell her you love her and worry about her and wish you could protect her, but you realize that's just not possible. Tell her how sad you will be if anything happens to her, especially if there was any way she could have prevented it from happening. Then go home and let her work on that for a day. She should be calling the next day ready to talk (note I did not say "discuss" - still emotions not rationality) about it. Bring flowers and chocolate when you go to her apartment. Do not expect miracles.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    It took time (18,19,20 years) for these girls to develop their attitudes. It will take time to change them - good luck.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    +1 to corneredcat.com

    Another resource for stories that might scare her a bit and hopefully wake her up

    http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefe...g/blogger.html

    Just remember, you can't convince her with logic or statistics, its purely an emotional thing. Until something comes along to make her feel differently towards guns and armed self-defense, no amount of reasoning or logic will change her mind.

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    TexasNative wrote:
    I know you didn't ask about this, but I have to wonder if it's a good idea to keep a loaded gun, or even unloaded with a magazine handy, in an unsecured desk drawer when three residents of the house who have no experience or ability with handing a firearm. At the very least, I'd recommend a Gun Vault to keep it in.

    ~ Boyd
    I am glad that I am not the first person to think of this. Having a loaded gun in an accessible place is terrific when it's just you (or you and a spouse, if you are lucky like I am). Having a loaded, accessible gun in an apartment with other individuals of dubious competence is not the best idea, despite the well-earned reputation that college students have for making well-informed, mature decisions concerning the safety of themselves and others.

    Also, I would take her to a range and teach her proper use of a firearm before I would suggest that she keep one on or near her when I am not there. But that's just me.

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    As the first female to chime in here, I hope you will take my words to heart.

    #1-Forcing statistics down her throat won't work. It'll piss her off.

    #2-Forcing anything down her throat will piss her off.

    #3-Continue to protect yourself, thats all you can do.

    Speaking from experience (search some of my first posts) you CAN NOT WIN THIS BY FORCING YOUR VALUES, THOUGHTS, AND IDEAS ON YOUR GIRLFRIEND!

    Only time and experience will do this. Be prepared to have LOGICAL FACTS to back your arguments when and if SHE brings up the subject.

    And yes, telling her you care about her and want this for her safety is a good way to go, but only if you mean it.

    If you have any more questions or concerns please feel free to PM me. No offense to any of the male posters here but yes females do think differently than males. : )

  22. #22
    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    I've learned that taking someone to the range helps a LOT. I've taken several antis (or so they thought) to the range and at the bare minimum they admitted that they had fun. And I've found that even the antis who haven't shot before are curious enough to go just once to see what it's all about. I've met or heard of I dont know how many women who were either anti-gun or liberal and they "saw the light" because they met a conservative guy who after months or years convinced her that she was wrong. It may take a while...or it may not happen at all. But its worth trying but you can not introduce data and you can not use force or make demands.

    Good luck!

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    richarcm wrote:
    I've learned that taking someone to the range helps a LOT.* I've taken several antis (or so they thought) to the range and at the bare minimum they admitted that they had fun.* And I've found that even the antis who haven't shot before are curious enough to go just once to see what it's all about.* I've met or heard of I dont know how many women who were either anti-gun or liberal and they "saw the light" because they met a conservative guy who after months or years convinced her that she was wrong.* It may take a while...or it may not happen at all.* But its worth trying but you can not introduce data and you can not use force or make demands.*

    Good luck!
    + 1

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    Hey guys (and lady). Thanks for the response. Insightful and helpful. So I guess I'll cover it in steps here.

    a.) I didn't think I was forcing it on her until we had our convo last night. She seemed interested in owning a firearm, not so much carrying, and has spoken w/ me about it several times. However, I think now that her friends think it's "scary", she is kinda iffy about it. Her name is on the lease, but so are the other two that don't like guns and one that is whatever about the situation. The other girl had said she would be more comfortable with a firearm in the apt.but along with my g/f, is hesitant because she doesn't want to step on toes.

    b.) Both my g/f and her roommate that is okay with owning a firearm are familiar with them. Especially my g/f. She usually goes to the range w/ me and her dad raised her around guns. So I've seen first-hand they have the proper training. The g/f actually is a better shot than I am lol.

    c.) As far as having a firearm in the apt. w/ the ones that aren't trained. I have a little steel lock-box I was planning on giving her so she wouldn't have to buy an expensive safe. So even if they went snooping, I doubt they'd know what it is. But a safe couldn't hurt right?

    d.) I agree with what the majority of you all say about don't shove statistics down her throat. I just thought they could help. She's one of the brainy ones who doesn't usually listen to logic unless she sees proof to back it up so I figured it'd help to have some ready if she wanted to see them. And like I say, she's not against carry of firearms and has said she wouldn't mind having one. She just thinks the chances of her needing one are small. She is one who is a non-believer until it happens on most situations.

    e.) Skidmark, I think you were the one that said respect what the roommates want about myself carrying in their apartment. And I agree. I'm not out to push it on them at all for I doubt I would reach them if I told em shut up and carried a gun in their home lol. And they're sweet girls. A little warped views but hey, I can deal. I just thought it was kinda silly how they said it's okay if they can't see it. But like you said, it's their home too and I respect that.

    Thanks again for the advice from everyone. Once again, you all haven't let me down with advice.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    ClumsyCandy wrote:
    As the first female to chime in here, I hope you will take my words to heart.

    #1-Forcing statistics down her throat won't work. It'll piss her off.

    #2-Forcing anything down her throat will piss her off.

    #3-Continue to protect yourself, thats all you can do.

    Speaking from experience (search some of my first posts) you CAN NOT WIN THIS BY FORCING YOUR VALUES, THOUGHTS, AND IDEAS ON YOUR GIRLFRIEND!

    Only time and experience will do this. Be prepared to have LOGICAL FACTS to back your arguments when and if SHE brings up the subject.

    And yes, telling her you care about her and want this for her safety is a good way to go, but only if you mean it.

    If you have any more questions or concerns please feel free to PM me. No offense to any of the male posters here but yes females do think differently than males. : )
    They certainly do. But watch it. You might get in trouble with the ardent femini-Nazis for telling the truth.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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