Convincing the g/f

imported post

:cuss:So this doesn't have to do with open carry necessarily, but it does have to do with carrying. Let me lay out the situation here for you guys.

Tonight, my girlfriend informed me that two of her roommates have told her they "feel uncomfortable" with me coming in carrying a gun they can see. She asked if I could leave it in the car. Now just to let you guys know, I open carry everywhere I'm allowed and all the time (when allowed). The only time I conceal is at work because my boss is concerned it "might frighten" all our friendly liberal customers. So I told her I'm really uncomfortable with leaving it in the car. So they asked if I could at least cover it up when I'm there. As if my shirt is bulletproof and the big lump on my hip wouldn't remind them that it's still there.

All of this brought up the conversation of my girlfriend having a gun. So discussing this between myself and her, she said she could care less either way if I give her my old .380 to keep in her desk. I told her she doesn't have to let them know she has it unless the situation arose where she needed to use it. And if they had a problem with it then... then tell the BG to proceed with doing what he felt appropriate with the other two girls and use the gun to defend herself haha. Anyway, the g/f is a very trusting, "it'll never happen" to me kind of person. Her excuse is: She doesn't believe the chance of someone breaking into her apt is very likely while they're there. Now this is a small apt that she shares w/ three other tiny college age (and obama lovers), not see-able from the main road, glass sliding door (that apparently they feel is invincible because they have a bar they keep in it from sliding AND a impenetrable plastic-looking lock!!! watch out BGs, that take ten seconds to get through. Anyway, she's not against it, but thinks the chance of something like that happening is very low.

What I'm asking from y'all is if anyone knows where I can find break in statistics, rape statistics, etc that will help prove my point to her and possibly even her roommates. My goal here is to show them why not have one, just in case. They all seem to think it's a macho thing and no good to them. We've all come across it before. But with the age they are it seems like it proposes more of a challenge to get past their all-knowing, infinite university wisdom. Thanks ahead of time.

imported post

I think its very sad your g/f has brainwashed socialist friends, but that's water under the bridge. I'm sorry to say my 18 year old OCing daughter isn't available for the "rent-a-roomate" program in Charlottesville. She graduates this year. Some of her friends are afraid of firearms, but have admitted to her that they do feel safer when she's around. Unfortunately, they aren't quite ready to OC too.

I don't know your AOR, but here's something I found in a 5-second search...

http://spotcrime.com/va/charlottesville

You may be able to find more info at your local PD station on past history, etc. Also check your library. Ask the Reference Desk Librarian where you can find local crime statistics. They're usually more than willing to help. I know our local libraries are great at helping someone find what they're looking for. Do you have a library card? If not, you should get one. Many universities also let the "locals" have library cards, too. I imagine UVA has a great library.

Good luck!

Semper Paratus

msc

imported post

I was just playing around with that interactive map I sent. Between 8/1 and 8/23, there were FIVE shootings in that area. I think that is PLENTY to justify your OCing. Seems to be a lot of hit & run accidents and reports of suspicious persons/vehicles.

It seems theres a LOT more going in there that I suspected. It isn't DC, but it ain't Mayberry, either!

imported post

haha it is a good map. My friend and I at work usually check it out every few days. And according to the albemarle county police website report, firearm related incidents are higher within the first few months this year than the whole year prior. If that's not reason alone I don't know what is. She was saying a few months ago she wanted to carry one in her purse when she turned 21, but she doesn't like confrontation and she says my OCing causes "unneeded attention". I tell her I like the questions because it gives me a chance to educate people. I think her friends are just getting to her.:banghead:

Does your daughter go to UVA?? I noticed you said she was only 18 but graduating. I'm taking it high school? We could use young people like her here in Cville w/ all the liberal college kids I get a lot of looks. But being not a lot older than most I feel sometimes gives me a one up and a chance to reach them before they're all taught the EVILLLLLS OF THA SELF FIRING FIRE STICKS!!! haha.

imported post

Wasn't there a serial rapist issue in Charlottesville/UVA area last year?

imported post

i think he was tried last year, but was in town for several years prior. although i think some on rugby (frat row) might come close to qualifying. I see girls running alone in dark shady places all the time. I want to just ask them how dumb they can be. lol

imported post

Proud... PM sent.

imported post

STATISTICS ARE IRRELEVANT!!!

Tell yourself that, in no uncertain terms! Otherwise, you'll end up talking about numbers and statistical probabilities until you are both blue in the face. She isn't stupid, and probably isn't ignorant, so just hammering away with facts will be very frustrating for you and aggravating for her.

She is likely suffering from liberallogic, which is largely impervious to the facts. Feeling states are largely the cause of this state of mind, and the approach to dealing with it also involves manipulation of feelings.

Here's one fact, however: if she is a victim or a rape or murder, she will be a 100% victim, and the "retrospective likelihood" will have been 100% in her case as well. Those are the only statistics that matter.

If she "feels" she is safe where she is, fine. So be it. Does she wear seat belts? If so, ask her to tell you which streets are the "safe ones" so she can make a list of the places where seal belts are unnessessary. Ask her if she would "feel safe" removing her belts on these streets. No? Why not?

Her "feeling safe" in her appt. is no excuse for making believe nothing bad can ever happen, and asking you to disarm yourself because carrying makes others "feel" uncomfortable" is akin to her asking people riding in her car to not wear selt belts because "these roads are safe" and belts therefore make her "feel uncomfortable".

You need to put your foot down here, sir. If you care about your safety and hers, don't get wrapped up in useless, unwinnable arguments about stats.

imported post

Dutch Uncle wrote:

STATISTICS ARE IRRELEVANT!!!

Tell yourself that, in no uncertain terms! Otherwise, you'll end up talking about numbers and statistical probabilities until you are both blue in the face. She isn't stupid, and probably isn't ignorant, so just hammering away with facts will be very frustrating for you and aggravating for her.

She is likely suffering from liberallogic, which is largely impervious to the facts. Feeling states are largely the cause of this state of mind, and the approach to dealing with it also involves manipulation of feelings.

Here's one fact, however: if she is a victim or a rape or murder, she will be a 100% victim, and the "retrospective likelihood" will have been 100% in her case as well. Those are the only statistics that matter.

If she "feels" she is safe where she is, fine. So be it. Does she wear seat belts? If so, ask her to tell you which streets are the "safe ones" so she can make a list of the places where seal belts are unnessessary. Ask her if she would "feel safe" removing her belts on these streets. No? Why not?

Her "feeling safe" in her appt. is no excuse for making believe nothing bad can ever happen, and asking you to disarm yourself because carrying makes others "feel" uncomfortable" is akin to her asking people riding in her car to not wear selt belts because "these roads are safe" and belts therefore make her "feel uncomfortable".

You need to put your foot down here, sir. If you care about your safety and hers, don't get wrapped up in useless, unwinnable arguments about stats.

Click to expand...

+1. The wise man has spoken.

imported post

My oldest daughter went to UVA. In her second year, she lived off campus in what I believe were duplex apartments not far from campus with two other girls, one of which was a long time friend. The other girl was raped at knife point and fortunately for her, it was a simple rape; i.e., she was not beaten, stabbed, nor did her attacker try to kill her. Her parents pulled her out of the school.

Also during I believe my daughter's freshman year there,a professor (I think I have this right) was shot and killed going to his car in a parking lot.

Charlottesville has its crime problems and its share of feel-good, victim-drenched, mush-head students. A perfect match for BGs to ply their trade.

imported post

The only statistic you need is any local media outlet. Criminals are known for picking out the weak and vulnerable. Just look at any newscast or newspaper all the information you could ever need is there.

Some may say the odds are against you. I say the odds are for you not being victimized.

imported post

I know you didn't ask about this, but I have to wonder if it's a good idea to keep a loaded gun, or even unloaded with a magazine handy, in an unsecured desk drawer when three residents of the house who have no experience or ability with handing a firearm. At the very least, I'd recommend a Gun Vault to keep it in.

~ Boyd

imported post

There was a great article a few months ago about a guy who was at a party and two guys broke into the apartment separated the men and the women...threatened to rape all of the women and kill all of the men. But because he was carrying a gun in his backpack he shot and killed both (I think) of the men and saved everyone from being killed and/or raped. I bet those girls felt safe in that apartment. I bet they thought it could NEVER happen to them. They too WERE invincible but now probably see the value in having a gun for safety purposes.

imported post

Just ask her if she believes that the students at VT or of ANY violent crime felt that they too were safe BEFORE the violent crime occurred. My friend is like that too. He lives in Woodbridge which isn't really that safe and he thinks that he is safe because he's lived here for 30 years and never needed a gun. Therefor it is silly that I feel the need for one. But I'm sure EVERYONE who gets raped, threatened at gun point or even murdered felt prior to the assault that they were safe and would never need a gun. Its hard getting through to these left wing college kids. I agree that statistics will mean nothing. You have to break through to them with what they understand which is "feelings". Especially left wing girls. That is all that they know and understand. I don't envy you at all and I sincerely wish you good luck. If you can convince them at all I will be very impressed. LOL. They have been trained to be victims by all accounts.

imported post

And lastly...this is why I make sure any girl I date is first and foremost not a bleeding heart liberal. They must at least be tolerable and open minded to conservatism and guns or the date ends right then and there. I also prefer to take them to the range on one of the first dates to see how they react to guns and to see if they don't like them more after having shot them.

Maybe thats something you can do...take her to the shooting range and have her shoot them. You can change a lot of people's opinions on guns by taking them to the range and letting them touch, hold and shoot the gun. They learn to associate FUN with the gun rather than just violence.

imported post

richarcm wrote:

There was a great article a few months ago about a guy who was at a party and two guys broke into the apartment separated the men and the women...threatened to rape all of the women and kill all of the men. But because he was carrying a gun in his backpack he shot and killed both (I think) of the men and saved everyone from being killed and/or raped. I bet those girls felt safe in that apartment. I bet they thought it could NEVER happen to them. They too WERE invincible but now probably see the value in having a gun for safety purposes.

Click to expand...

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=25521&forum_id=18&highlight=enough+bullets+rape

imported post

Let's try to get back on topic.

1 - you are a guest in the apartment. My question is: are all three named on the lease? If not, who is? If all three are named on the lease then I'd say themajority rules and you should not carry when visiting. If your GF is not the one named on the lease then see the previous statement. IF your GF is the one named on the lease then it's up to her and the other two can either accept it or look for another place to live. If they choose option #2 your GF may not like the additional expense her decision has created, but that's her problem until she brings it to you -- which if I were a betting man I would bet she will do.

2 - Why do you want to force (give her when she has not asked for it) a handgun on your GF? Just because you have gone through the mental/emotional/rational/long talk with $diety process of deciding that possessing a handgun and OCing are right for you does not mean it is right for anybody else.

Veering slightly OT for 3 - A .380?!!?:what: srsly, dood! WTF were you thinking? THe .380 has waay too much recoil for her to be able to tolerate, and it is such a wimpy round that even though it will go through schools a mile away it will not penetrate a BG and will just make him madder. OK -- so much for the comedy. Probably the best way known to screw up a relationship and turn off a new female shooter (works well with the guys too) is to tell them "this is what you need because I said so." If nothing else, look at www.corneredcat.com and read what she has to say about selecting a gun for your woman.

4 - Until you and the GF move in together/get married there are going to be times when you simply cannot be there to be her knight in shining OC. While you may want to be, it sounds like she is not yet at the point where she wants you to be/is willing to alllow you to be her personal bodyguard. That can really suck if you are at the point of wanting to protect her from dragons and BGs. You probably need to discuss this concept with her.

5 - As has been mentioned before, folks do not generally decide to up and get a handgun for self defense because of statistics. Yes, seeing and understanding the numbers can help drive one to the decision but in reality it does come down to an emotional decision. You made that decision that you were "better off" carrying than not carrying. So far it seems your GF has made the decision that she is "better off" not thinking about the issue very much. You can "force" her to talk about the subject, but you cannot force her to think about it or force her to accept your conclusions or force her to accept your conclusions as being applicable to her as well as to you. Trying will probably result in a resolution you might not want - being told the relationship is over and you are severely lacking in -- do I really need to run down that list?

Finally, a HINT - tell her you love her and worry about her and wish you could protect her, but you realize that's just not possible. Tell her how sad you will be if anything happens to her, especially if there was any way she could have prevented it from happening. Then go home and let her work on that for a day. She should be calling the next day ready to talk (note I did not say "discuss" - still emotions not rationality) about it. Bring flowers and chocolate when you go to her apartment. Do not expect miracles.

stay safe.

skidmark

imported post

It took time (18,19,20 years) for these girls to develop their attitudes. It will take time to change them - good luck.

Yata hey

imported post

+1 to corneredcat.com

Another resource for stories that might scare her a bit and hopefully wake her up

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.html

Just remember, you can't convince her with logic or statistics, its purely an emotional thing. Until something comes along to make her feel differently towards guns and armed self-defense, no amount of reasoning or logic will change her mind.

imported post

TexasNative wrote:

I know you didn't ask about this, but I have to wonder if it's a good idea to keep a loaded gun, or even unloaded with a magazine handy, in an unsecured desk drawer when three residents of the house who have no experience or ability with handing a firearm. At the very least, I'd recommend a Gun Vault to keep it in.

~ Boyd

Click to expand...

I am glad that I am not the first person to think of this. Having a loaded gun in an accessible place is terrific when it's just you (or you and a spouse, if you are lucky like I am). Having a loaded, accessible gun in an apartment with other individuals of dubious competence is not the best idea, despite the well-earned reputation that college students have for making well-informed, mature decisions concerning the safety of themselves and others.

Also, I would take her to a range and teach her proper use of a firearm before I would suggest that she keep one on or near her when I am not there. But that's just me.