Legal to cc anywhere on your residential property?

imported post

darthmord wrote:

Every range officer, police officer, and lawyer I've asked about this has said the same thing. CC on my own property is my business and not theirs. I was advised to make sure I wasn't CC without the proper permits & ID off my property though (that would include walking into the street. Anything inside the deeded lines of my property is mine and therefore allows me to CC w/o permit).

You know the drill though. IANAL and my advice is worth only what you paid for it.

I do have a related question... I may have missed the answer but can I CC on someone else's property with their permission? IE: I am at a friend's house. Can I CC with their permission without the requisite permits? Obviously I can OC with their permission.

Click to expand...

I proposed this question at a dinner and got the answer of "If you have written permission to do so." Not sure if this is correct or not. I would assume verbal permission is fine as long as I record it. When the cops roll up just switch to OC I have a problem of when I am DDing for a friend's party I want to CC in their house. They are fine with it but I am just not sure of the legality of it.

imported post

darthmord wrote:

Every range officer, police officer, and lawyer I've asked about this has said the same thing. CC on my own property is my business and not theirs. I was advised to make sure I wasn't CC without the proper permits & ID off my property though (that would include walking into the street. Anything inside the deeded lines of my property is mine and therefore allows me to CC w/o permit).

You know the drill though. IANAL and my advice is worth only what you paid for it.

I do have a related question... I may have missed the answer but can I CC on someone else property with their permission? IE: I am at a friend's house. Can I CC with their permission without the requisite permits? Obviously I can OC with their permission.

Click to expand...

That could be a sticky one. I know you can hunt on you own property without a hunting license, but not any where else including a friends on private property. So by that I would assume the same goes for CC. The law only states your own place and abode so this should mean what it does. Anything elce appears against the law.

imported post

kennys wrote:

darthmord wrote:

Every range officer, police officer, and lawyer I've asked about this has said the same thing. CC on my own property is my business and not theirs. I was advised to make sure I wasn't CC without the proper permits & ID off my property though (that would include walking into the street. Anything inside the deeded lines of my property is mine and therefore allows me to CC w/o permit).

You know the drill though. IANAL and my advice is worth only what you paid for it.

I do have a related question... I may have missed the answer but can I CC on someone else property with their permission? IE: I am at a friend's house. Can I CC with their permission without the requisite permits? Obviously I can OC with their permission.

Click to expand...

That could be a sticky one. I know you can hunt on you own property without a hunting license, but not any where else including a friends on private property. So by that I would assume the same goes for CC. Than again if you are in the middle of the woods on their property, who would know....

Click to expand...

True enough. There's something to be said about having CC though. If properly done, no one will know short of frisking youthoroughly.

Why couldn't we have simple laws? CC w/o permit only on your own property or with the property owner's permission. Of course, there is *the simple* law of VT carry.

imported post

There is nothing in the CHP law that says you can do this. If you recall, the CHP law basically says that the concealed carrying of any weapon listed in that law is illegal, except for the provisions outlined later in the law, which is the CHP permit, own home, place of business, etc, etc.

IANAL, but basically, no it is not generally legal to carry a concealed weapon on another's property, even with their permission.

If you can find something in the law that says it is, please let me and the rest of us know ASAP! ;-)

http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

TFred

imported post

What if I am staying the night or just hanging out at their house. Could I claim that that is a temporary residence?

imported post

TFred wrote:

There is nothing in the CHP law that says you can do this. If you recall, the CHP law basically says that the concealed carrying of any weapon listed in that law is illegal, except for the provisions outlined later in the law, which is the CHP permit, own home, place of business, etc, etc.

IANAL, but basically, no it is not generally legal to carry a concealed weapon on another's property, even with their permission.

If you can find something in the law that says it is, please let me and the rest of us know ASAP! ;-)

http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

TFred

Click to expand...

Well, the only thing I could see would be claiming temporary abode as was suggested earlier.

imported post

darthmord wrote:

TFred wrote:

There is nothing in the CHP law that says you can do this. If you recall, the CHP law basically says that the concealed carrying of any weapon listed in that law is illegal, except for the provisions outlined later in the law, which is the CHP permit, own home, place of business, etc, etc.

IANAL, but basically, no it is not generally legal to carry a concealed weapon on another's property, even with their permission.

If you can find something in the law that says it is, please let me and the rest of us know ASAP! ;-)

http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

TFred

Click to expand...

Well, the only thing I could see would be claiming temporary abode as was suggested earlier.

Click to expand...

I would suppose there is quite a bit of case law to determine a legal residence status. I guess we could go round and round over "abode" like we have done with "curtilage"...

TFred

imported post

darthmord wrote:

I do have a related question... I may have missed the answer but can I CC on someone else's property with their permission? IE: I am at a friend's house. Can I CC with their permission without the requisite permits? Obviously I can OC with their permission.

Click to expand...

Nope.

~ Boyd

P.S. The longer version is, that concealed carry is generally prohibited, with various exceptions. On someone else's property without a permit isn't one of those exceptions.

ETA: I really need to be sure I'm on the last page before I start responding to posts.

imported post

nova wrote:

TexasNative wrote:

darthmord wrote:

I do have a related question... I may have missed the answer but can I CC on someone else's property with their permission? IE: I am at a friend's house. Can I CC with their permission without the requisite permits? Obviously I can OC with their permission.

Click to expand...

Nope.

~ Boyd

P.S. The longer version is, that concealed carry is generally prohibited, with various exceptions. On someone else's property without a permit isn't one of those exceptions.

ETA: I really need to be sure I'm on the last page before I start responding to posts.

Click to expand...

You can CC on other people's property without a permit if you have the written permission from the property owner.

Click to expand...

Where is the proof for that is what we are all wondering:question:

imported post

nova wrote:

TexasNative wrote:
You can CC on other people's property without a permit if you have the written permission from the property owner.

Click to expand...

I have been searching but never found what you say.

I know this is a differant deal all togather but, if you look in to the part allowing buisness owners and employees of ABC establishment to carry conceiled with a valid CHP as the law states. If what you say is true, why wouldn't it be legal for the Owners only to give written permission. Like I said differant deal, but yet they are the owners.....

Unless I see it in wrighting I wouldn't believe the written permission deal.

imported post

nova wrote:

You can CC on other people's property without a permit if you have the written permission from the property owner.

Click to expand...

Go to § 18.2-308 B to see the exemptions from the general ban on concealed carry. There is no such exemption for having written permission from a property owner.

http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM


As I read it, carrying concealed onproperty other than your own without a permit is against the law in Virginia.

imported post

Just so there's no confusion, Kennys misattributed his quote. I did not make the incorrect statement attributed to me; that came from Dave (Nova). As I stated earlier, concealed carry is generally prohibited with exceptions. There is no exception for concealed carry on another's property without a CHP, so it would be illegal to do so, regardless of any permission, written or otherwise, by the property owner.

~ Boyd

imported post

Tomahawk wrote:

nova wrote:

You can CC on other people's property without a permit if you have the written permission from the property owner.

Click to expand...

Go to § 18.2-308 B to see the exemptions from the general ban on concealed carry. There is no such exemption for having written permission from a property owner.

http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM


As I read it, carrying concealed onproperty other than your own without a permit is against the law in Virginia.

Click to expand...

Perhaps he's confused with § 18.2-308.7

http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.7.HTM

"§ 18.2-308.7. Possession or transportation of certain firearms by persons under the age of 18; penalty. It shall be unlawful for any person under 18 years of age to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport a handgun or assault firearm anywhere in the Commonwealth. For the purposes of this section, "handgun" means any pistol or revolver or other firearm originally designed, made and intended to fire single or multiple projectiles by means of an explosion of a combustible material from one or more barrels when held in one hand and "assault firearm" means any (i) semi-automatic centerfire rifle or pistol which expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (ii) shotgun with a magazine which will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered. A violation of this section shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor.
This section shall not apply to:
1. Any person (i) while in his home or on his property; (ii) while in the home or on the property of his parent, grandparent, or legal guardian; or (iii) while on the property of another who has provided prior permission, and with the prior permission of his parent or legal guardian if the person has the landowner's written permission on his person while on such property;"

imported post

Tomahawk wrote:

nova wrote:

You can CC on other people's property without a permit if you have the written permission from the property owner.

Click to expand...

Go to § 18.2-308 B to see the exemptions from the general ban on concealed carry. There is no such exemption for having written permission from a property owner.

http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM


As I read it, carrying concealed onproperty other than your own without a permit is against the law in Virginia.

Click to expand...

aww krap I think I'm confusing the under 21 handgun possession deal. :?

imported post

Two full pages of mostly folks trying to find a way to circumvent, if not outright violate, a law that is about as clearly written as any you are going to find.

I'm not, channeling the Duke's John Chisum character here, going to say you are acting like a bunch of spoiled brats because you cannot have things your way. Nope, I'm not going to say that.

Discussing - to use a polite term - how you wish the law and life were is about as useful as the proverbial appendages on the various and sundry animals usually referenced. Unless I have missed it somewhere, there has been no mention of what it might take to get the current law changed and how much support you might drum up for a change in the law.

See paragraph #2 above. I might want to label it "chorus".

Trying to parse the terms "curtilage" and "abode" to force them into something other than what the courts have already told you those terms mean is as useful as the appendages previously mentioned.

Openly discussing how you would, and encouraging others to seek ways of, violating the law is not a Good Thing[suP]TM[/suP].

<chorus>

Can we get back to being constructive and stop what the paranoia-prone like to call "offering fodder to the antis"?

[rant] It's not just this thread, but this one, today, broke the camel's back.

stay safe.

skidmark

imported post

skidmark wrote:

Two full pages of mostly folks trying to find a way to circumvent, if not outright violate, a law that is about as clearly written as any you are going to find.

I'm not, channeling the Duke's John Chisum character here, going to say you are acting like a bunch of spoiled brats because you cannot have things your way. Nope, I'm not going to say that.

Discussing - to use a polite term - how you wish the law and life were is about as useful as the proverbial appendages on the various and sundry animals usually referenced. Unless I have missed it somewhere, there has been no mention of what it might take to get the current law changed and how much support you might drum up for a change in the law.

See paragraph #2 above. I might want to label it "chorus".

Trying to parse the terms "curtilage" and "abode" to force them into something other than what the courts have already told you those terms mean is as useful as the appendages previously mentioned.

Openly discussing how you would, and encouraging others to seek ways of, violating the law is not a Good Thing[suP]TM[/suP].

<chorus>

Can we get back to being constructive and stop what the paranoia-prone like to call "offering fodder to the antis"?

[rant] It's not just this thread, but this one, today, broke the camel's back.

stay safe.

skidmark

Click to expand...

I see what you are saying and fully agree...

imported post

nova wrote:

You can CC on other people's property without a permit if you have the written permission from the property owner.

Click to expand...

Perhaps also if they are employing you or you are sponsoring an event on their property?

Curious, but it could meet the criteria under 308(J3).

imported post

wylde007 wrote:

nova wrote:

You can CC on other people's property without a permit if you have the written permission from the property owner.

Click to expand...

Perhaps also if they are employing you or you are sponsoring an event on their property?

Curious, but it could meet the criteria under 308(J3).

Click to expand...

Please read the two posts immediately above yours.

Please.

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze.

stay safe.

skidmark

imported post

wylde007 wrote:

nova wrote:

You can CC on other people's property without a permit if you have the written permission from the property owner.

Click to expand...

Perhaps also if they are employing you or you are sponsoring an event on their property?

Curious, but it could meet the criteria under 308(J3).

Click to expand...

I don't think it could. Re-read 18.2-308(J3). That subsection specifically pertains to a restaurant or club that is licensed by the ABC for the sale of alcohol for on-premises consumption.