Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 39

Thread: California Sheriffs and candidates plan to issue more concealed handgun permits!

  1. #1
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    More stories on California sheriffs promising to liberally issue concealed handgun permits:

    http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/2148151.html

    SNIP


    Candidate Craig Therkildsen, a captain with the department, said he would streamline the process and accept self-protection as sufficient cause.

    "El Dorado County is a very safe place to live, but no street is 100 percent safe," he said.

    Ernest Hillman, who served as undersheriff with the department before retiring, said he would eliminate the requirement to provide three letters of reference attesting to the applicant's good character. Such letters are of little value, he said, unless you investigate the letter writer's background.

    Asked to define good cause, John D'Agostini, an investigator with the Amador County District Attorney's Office and a former Amador County sheriff's deputy said, "Self-protection, simple as that."

    Larry Hennick, who served 32 years with the El Dorado County Sheriff's Department, replied, "U.S. citizen." His policy, Hennick said, would be "apply and receive."

    Bob Luca, retired chief of the California Bureau of Investigation, said the attorney general's opinion should be interpreted as guidelines, not law. But while he favors a "shall issue" policy, Luca said, California is not a "shall issue" state, and the sheriff must abide by state law.

    George Nielsen, Placerville police chief, said his policy would be to help concealed weapons applicants articulate good cause. One, he said, is the danger posed by the potential early release of some state prison inmates.

    Perez said he would clarify what constitutes good cause.

    "You won't have to define good cause," he told potential applicants. "I will have already done that for you."


    http://www.sacbee.com/news/story/2133266.html?storylink=lingospot_related_articles

    And see San Bernadino permit issuance soaring 730%: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/forums/posts.aspx?postID=18270&AspxAutoDetectCookieSu pport=1

  2. #2
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    Not to stir the hornets nest, but what does this have to do with open carry?
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Suwannee County, FL
    Posts
    5,069

    Post imported post

    ConditionThree wrote:
    Not to stir the hornets nest, but what does this have to do with open carry?
    These decisions might be a result of the fact that people are OCing in CA.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Statesman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    949

    Post imported post

    One could infer from the article that the Sheriff will voluntarily issue CCDW in response to the increase in open carry incidents.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Suwannee County, FL
    Posts
    5,069

    Post imported post

    One can see a clear path towards using Shall Issue as a concession to close the "OC Loophole."
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Walton County, Georgia, ,
    Posts
    475

    Post imported post

    This could also be considered evidence to the contrary of the belief that open carrying will cause us to lose our rights, as it may be that open carry contributed to these new promises.

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Suwannee County, FL
    Posts
    5,069

    Post imported post

    N00blet45 wrote:
    This could also be considered evidence to the contrary of the belief that open carrying will cause us to lose our rights, as it may be that open carry contributed to these new promises.
    I disagree. It is likely that the 0somewhate neutered0 RIGHT to OC in CA will be sacrificed to get the privilege of CC made into 'shall issue.'

    Then there will be no right left at all, just a less restricted, but still restricted, privilege.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  8. #8
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    ixtow wrote:
    ConditionThree wrote:
    Not to stir the hornets nest, but what does this have to do with open carry?
    These decisions might be a result of the fact that people are OCing in CA.
    Actually, there are those who believe that UOC in California has instigated additional legislative action to inhibit the practice. Most notably, the expansion of the gun free school zone form 1000 feet to 1500 feet is being attributed to my actions as well as others like me.

    This is more probably a reaction to the budget crisis eliminating patrols and releasing convicts.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  9. #9
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Temecula, California, USA
    Posts
    1,660

    Post imported post

    ConditionThree wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    ConditionThree wrote:
    Not to stir the hornets nest, but what does this have to do with open carry?
    These decisions might be a result of the fact that people are OCing in CA.
    Actually, there are those who believe that UOC in California has instigated additional legislative action to inhibit the practice. Most notably, the expansion of the gun free school zone form 1000 feet to 1500 feet is being attributed to my actions as well as others like me.

    This is more probably a reaction to the budget crisis eliminating patrols and releasing convicts.
    Mostly politics...fund the Sheriff's office or he/she will start issuing CCW's. But this is based on the additional fact that they are considering releasing so many prisoners. Additionally there is somewhat of a ground swell in support of issuing CCW's, and of course these guys (at least in my county) are coming up for re-election next year.

    As much as I would like to give credit to the UOC movement, I doubt its having any realimpact on the CCW policies in this state.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Suwannee County, FL
    Posts
    5,069

    Post imported post

    coolusername2007 wrote:
    ConditionThree wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    ConditionThree wrote:
    Not to stir the hornets nest, but what does this have to do with open carry?
    These decisions might be a result of the fact that people are OCing in CA.
    Actually, there are those who believe that UOC in California has instigated additional legislative action to inhibit the practice. Most notably, the expansion of the gun free school zone form 1000 feet to 1500 feet is being attributed to my actions as well as others like me.

    This is more probably a reaction to the budget crisis eliminating patrols and releasing convicts.
    Mostly politics...fund the Sheriff's office or he/she will start issuing CCW's. But this is based on the additional fact that they are considering releasing so many prisoners. Additionally there is somewhat of a ground swell in support of issuing CCW's, and of course these guys (at least in my county) are coming up for re-election next year.

    As much as I would like to give credit to the UOC movement, I doubt its having any realimpact on the CCW policies in this state.
    In a way, I hope you're right. OC would, no doubt, be the first sacrifice tossed on the altar of whatever is being bargained for.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Cherry Tree (Indiana County), Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,155

    Post imported post

    ConditionThree wrote:
    Not to stir the hornets nest, but what does this have to do with open carry?
    Easy. If more and more people are carrying loaded firearms concealed, then what sense does it make insisting that open carry ofthe very samefirearm have that firearm unloaded.

  12. #12
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    Statkowski wrote:
    ConditionThree wrote:
    Not to stir the hornets nest, but what does this have to do with open carry?
    Easy. If more and more people are carrying loaded firearms concealed, then what sense does it make insisting that open carry ofthe very samefirearm have that firearm unloaded.
    Give me a license, or give me death!

    Doesn't exactly have the same ring as liberty does it? Just sayin'.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Provo, Utah, USA
    Posts
    1,076

    Post imported post

    ixtow wrote:
    One can see a clear path towards using Shall Issue as a concession to close the "OC Loophole."
    Or one can see the law abiding citizens using it as leverage to show that a firearm doesn't have to be converted to a hammer (unloaded) to be safe to carry.

    Our experience here in Utah has been that we have been able to use the massive numbers of concealed permits with a minimal number of problems to gain additional freedom for all gun owners both CC and OC.

    One of the recent gains that can be largely attributed to the number of concealed permits is that there is no longer any restriction on carrying a handgun in a vehicle. Open, concealed, loaded, unloaded, permit, no permit, doesn't matter. As long as you are not prohibited from possessing a firearm you can carry it in any vehicle you legally occupy.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Suwannee County, FL
    Posts
    5,069

    Post imported post

    rpyne wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    One can see a clear path towards using Shall Issue as a concession to close the "OC Loophole."
    Or one can see the law abiding citizens using it as leverage to show that a firearm doesn't have to be converted to a hammer (unloaded) to be safe to carry.

    Our experience here in Utah has been that we have been able to use the massive numbers of concealed permits with a minimal number of problems to gain additional freedom for all gun owners both CC and OC.

    One of the recent gains that can be largely attributed to the number of concealed permits is that there is no longer any restriction on carrying a handgun in a vehicle. Open, concealed, loaded, unloaded, permit, no permit, doesn't matter. As long as you are not prohibited from possessing a firearm you can carry it in any vehicle you legally occupy.
    There is a whole country full of people doing this. Do Fringe-left lawmakers in CA listen?

    I doubt it.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    San Diego County, CA, California, USA
    Posts
    1,402

    Post imported post

    ConditionThree wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    ConditionThree wrote:
    Not to stir the hornets nest, but what does this have to do with open carry?
    These decisions might be a result of the fact that people are OCing in CA.
    Actually, there are those who believe that UOC in California has instigated additional legislative action to inhibit the practice. Most notably, the expansion of the gun free school zone form 1000 feet to 1500 feet is being attributed to my actions as well as others like me.

    This is more probably a reaction to the budget crisis eliminating patrols and releasing convicts.
    GFSZ expansion got signed by the governator already? If not, should read "the proposed/pending expansion"...

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Spokane, Washington, USA
    Posts
    132

    Post imported post

    So I am not from California and should probably study up on this before asking the question... but I drive through there quite often and break the law by concealing my pistol in my car. I want to apply for my CPL and may have an "in" To obtain one. BUt if they deny my application does that hurt my future chances of obtaining a non-resident CPL?

    THanks,

    Brian

  17. #17
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Temecula, California, USA
    Posts
    1,660

    Post imported post

    ixtow wrote:
    There is a whole country full of people doing this. Do Fringe-left lawmakers in CA listen?

    I doubt it.
    You doubt it? You're kidding right? They absolutely don't listen. Their ignorance is only exceeded by their arrogance!
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

  18. #18
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    SoCal, , USA
    Posts
    979

    Post imported post

    brianstone1985 wrote:
    So I am not from California and should probably study up on this before asking the question... but I drive through there quite often and break the law by concealing my pistol in my car. I want to apply for my CPL and may have an "in" To obtain one. BUt if they deny my application does that hurt my future chances of obtaining a non-resident CPL?

    THanks,

    Brian
    Sadly, although non-resident CCW licenses aren't technically nonexistant, the parameters for obtaining one and renewing oneare very narrow. It would also have a duration of only 90 days and is only valid in the county of issuance.

    ------------------------

    12050. (a) (1) (A) The sheriff of a county, upon proof that the
    person applying is of good moral character, that good cause exists
    for the issuance, and that the person applying satisfies any one of
    the conditions specified in subparagraph (D)
    and has completed a
    course of training as described in subparagraph (E), may issue to
    that person a license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm
    capable of being concealed upon the person in either one of the
    following formats:
    (i) A license to carry concealed a pistol, revolver, or other
    firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
    (ii) Where the population of the county is less than 200,000
    persons according to the most recent federal decennial census, a
    license to carry loaded and exposed in that county a pistol,
    revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
    person.
    (B) The chief or other head of a municipal police department of
    any city
    or city and county, upon proof that the person applying is
    of good moral character, that good cause exists for the issuance, and
    that the person applying is a resident of that city and has
    completed a course of training as described in subparagraph (E), may
    issue to that person a license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other
    firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in either one of
    the following formats:
    (i) A license to carry concealed a pistol, revolver, or other
    firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
    (ii) Where the population of the county in which the city is
    located is less than 200,000 persons according to the most recent
    federal decennial census, a license to carry loaded and exposed in
    that county a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
    concealed upon the person.
    (C)...
    (D) For the purpose of subparagraph (A), the applicant shall
    satisfy any one of the following:
    (i) Is a resident of the county or a city within the county.
    (ii) Spends a substantial period of time in the applicant's
    principal place of employment or business in the county or a city
    within the county.
    (2) (A) (i) Except as otherwise provided in clause (ii),
    subparagraphs (C) and (D) of this paragraph, and subparagraph (B) of
    paragraph (4) of subdivision (f), a license issued pursuant to
    subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) is valid for any period of
    time not to exceed two years from the date of the license.
    (ii) If the licensee's place of employment or business was the
    basis for issuance of the license pursuant to subparagraph (A) of
    paragraph (1), the license is valid for any period of time not to
    exceed 90 days from the date of the license. The license shall be
    valid only in the county in which the license was originally issued.
    The licensee shall give a copy of this license to the licensing
    authority of the city, county, or city and county in which he or she
    resides. The licensing authority that originally issued the license
    shall inform the licensee verbally and in writing in at least
    16-point type of this obligation to give a copy of the license to the
    licensing authority of the city, county, or city and county of
    residence. Any application to renew or extend the validity of, or
    reissue, the license may be granted only upon the concurrence of the
    licensing authority that originally issued the license and the
    licensing authority of the city, county, or city and county in which
    the licensee resides.


  19. #19
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    north mason county, Washington, USA
    Posts
    4,381

    Post imported post

    well that sucks!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Alabama, ,
    Posts
    1,338

    Post imported post

    So if you get a non-resident CC permit it is ok to OC loaded?
    (i) , (ii) both seem to say as long as it can be concealed, you can
    carry open and loaded. Could this be putting a target on #200,001
    trying to move into the neighborhood?

    But I am shocked that with all the anti-ca I read you can get permits
    for folding stock, and sawed off shotguns.:shock:

    The only problem I see with the "change of heart", is last year I recall
    a new sheriff blanket revoking every ones permits. So it is still only good
    as the nearest trash bin. A nice breath of possible fresh air, but I
    think you also need to fix revocation problem also.

    Just curious on what the time frame to get the permit is?
    Does it expire before you even receive it?

    As much as I would like to take my son to see those giant trees,
    it is not as important to me as having him reach his 21st birthday.
    I was so disgusted by what they have done to carlsbad caverns in
    the last 25 years, I shutter to think about how bad yellowstone, and
    grand canyon are now. The government is destroying everything
    they get their hands on.


  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    190

    Post imported post

    CA does not have a RKBA clause in its Constitution, does it? If not, then you already do not have the "right" to OC, except for the federal right.

    You may as well take all the legislative progress you can, until you amend your Constitution to guarantee the right to carry.

  22. #22
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    SoCal, , USA
    Posts
    979

    Post imported post

    Responses are inline below...

    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    So if you get a non-resident CC permit it is ok to OC loaded?
    (i) , (ii) both seem to say as long as it can be concealed, you can
    carry open and loaded. Could this be putting a target on #200,001
    trying to move into the neighborhood?
    IF you somehow managed to get issued a CCW as a non-resident, then yes, that license would exempt you from the restrictions for the Loaded condition of a firearm (PC 12031)
    But I am shocked that with all the anti-ca I read you can get permits
    for folding stock, and sawed off shotguns.:shock:
    MostNFA relatedpermits require the signoff of a Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) and as I understand it are generally not issued. FYI, there is no restriction on folding stocks except for 'assault weapons' for which if you are careful there are glaring holes in the law that make most of our restrictions in CA moot. For detailed info on either issues I would highly recommendhttp://Calguns.Net for more info...

    The only problem I see with the "change of heart", is last year I recall
    a new sheriff blanket revoking every ones permits. So it is still only good
    as the nearest trash bin. A nice breath of possible fresh air, but I
    think you also need to fix revocation problem also.
    Yes, this is a huge potential problem with CAs 'may issue' system. I believe you are referring to the change in the Orange County Sheriff. As I understand it, there were very few revocations, although she made it clear that many would simply 'not be renewed' Once we finally get 'shall issue' in place we're all set on that front. I think the people fighting this in the courts expect a positive result within the next couple years at most.
    Just curious on what the time frame to get the permit is?
    Does it expire before you even receive it?
    Huge variance depending on the issueing authority for processing time, it can vary from 1 day to well over a year. The 58(#?) County Sheriff's and all Chiefs of Police have issuing authority. The duration for a CA resident is typically 2 years. Cross-Jurisdiction issuance (which would include a theoretical non-Resident) are 90 days.
    As much as I would like to take my son to see those giant trees,
    it is not as important to me as having him reach his 21st birthday.
    I was so disgusted by what they have done to carlsbad caverns in
    the last 25 years, I shutter to think about how bad yellowstone, and
    grand canyon are now. The government is destroying everything
    they get their hands on.
    Come and visit, UOC/LOC as appropriate :celebrate

  23. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Brentwood, Tennessee
    Posts
    1,956

    Post imported post

    If California would change the law and charge people a few hundred bucks forpermits they could make hundreds of millions of dollars.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Provo, Utah, USA
    Posts
    1,076

    Post imported post

    mjones wrote
    Come and visit, UOC/LOC as appropriate
    I reserve my money to spend in places that actually support my rights and freedom.

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    San Diego County, CA, California, USA
    Posts
    1,402

    Post imported post

    kwikrnu wrote:
    If California would change the law and charge people a few hundred bucks forpermits they could make hundreds of millions of dollars.
    I thought sheriffs already charged exorbitant taxes on the right to bear arms in the few hundred dollar range... maybe the state is reticent to add their own taxes, lest the Laffer curve not be in tyranny's favor (less revenue because people opt-out completely).

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •