• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

OT: Right to film police

E

essayons

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Messages
278
Location
RVA, ,
imported post

Not really OC related, but I've been looking into the legality of filming police, the legality of police ordering a photographer or filmographer to cease filming, and when the police can seize cameras or film.

What I've found so far has been largely on blogs and in newspaper articles, with very little unbiased facts or cite's. It seems that it varies quite a bit from state to state as well, so I was wondering what VA statutes apply.

Hopefully some of you legal eagles out there can help me out.
 
MSC 45ACP

MSC 45ACP

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
2,840
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
imported post

AWESOME find, Ed. I'd love to have one of those.

I've HEARD that you can record public officials on audio and video if they are in a public place and acting in their official capacity as long as you are not "impeding" the performance of their job.

BUT... I don't know if that is true... Just what I HEARD. I'd also like to hear from a legal type.

I do KNOW that in Virginia, you can record a conversation as long as ONE party knows it is being recorded. In Maryland you cannot.
 
Dutch Uncle

Dutch Uncle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
1,715
Location
Virginia, USA
imported post

This does relate to OC. We have had situations where OC supporters have tried to film police during arrests only to have LEO's force the photographers to stop. Chet Szymecki's wife at Town Point Park, and Dan's friend at Waterside Mall come to mind.

It seems to me that no LEO has any right to privacy while transacting any business in a public venue. He or she might want to stop a record of such transaction, but I can see no justification for it. For that matter, if a dozen of us had been surrounding Chet or Dan in the above events, could the LEO possibly have ordered all of us to put our cell phones away while the LEO was breaking the law? I don't think so. It would have been impossible as well as illegal for such officer to order us to do so.
 
T

Tomahawk

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
5,117
Location
4 hours south of HankT, ,
imported post

MSC 45ACP wrote:
AWESOME find, Ed. I'd love to have one of those.

I've HEARD that you can record public officials on audio and video if they are in a public place and acting in their official capacity as long as you are not "impeding" the performance of their job.

BUT... I don't know if that is true... Just what I HEARD. I'd also like to hear from a legal type.

I do KNOW that in Virginia, you can record a conversation as long as ONE party knows it is being recorded. In Maryland you cannot.
Click to expand...
I believe you are correct, but we need a citation of some sort here. There's gotta be case law on this.
 
C

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

Tomahawk wrote:
MSC 45ACP wrote:
AWESOME find, Ed. I'd love to have one of those.

I've HEARD that you can record public officials on audio and video if they are in a public place and acting in their official capacity as long as you are not "impeding" the performance of their job.

BUT... I don't know if that is true... Just what I HEARD. I'd also like to hear from a legal type.

I do KNOW that in Virginia, you can record a conversation as long as ONE party knows it is being recorded. In Maryland you cannot.
Click to expand...
I believe you are correct, but we need a citation of some sort here. There's gotta be case law on this.
Click to expand...


When it comes to police demands, I would start with "what law makes it illegal?"

If there is no law against it, it is not prohibited.

Then dig from there. Maybe for federal civil rights violation law. I know one circuit or district in PA has some on this. Two PA troopers had to pay. But I don't know about VA. Except maybe internal citations in Mrs. Syzmecki's dismissed suit.
 
paramedic70002

paramedic70002

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
1,440
Location
Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
imported post

Recording is legal in VA as long as one party (you) is present and aware.

LEOs will tell you some Homeland Security federal law makes it illegal. Whatever. Bet they can't quote it or give you a copy.
 
TFred

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
imported post

ed wrote:
Anyone have one of these?

http://spypen.factoryoutletstore.com/?cid=11063&chid=1&gclid=CLaiif2wz5wCFVRM5Qod_WnkKw
Click to expand...
Very interesting product, and the prices at that site are very reasonable.

Does the indicator light face forward or backward though? I would hope it's on the opposite side from the clip, facing back toward your shirt and not out toward the persons/events you are recording.

I guess a tiny little piece of black tape would do the job though.

TFred
 
A

AbNo

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,805
Location
Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
imported post

Tomahawk wrote:
MSC 45ACP wrote:
AWESOME find, Ed. I'd love to have one of those.

I've HEARD that you can record public officials on audio and video if they are in a public place and acting in their official capacity as long as you are not "impeding" the performance of their job.

BUT... I don't know if that is true... Just what I HEARD. I'd also like to hear from a legal type.

I do KNOW that in Virginia, you can record a conversation as long as ONE party knows it is being recorded. In Maryland you cannot.
Click to expand...
I believe you are correct, but we need a citation of some sort here. There's gotta be case law on this.
Click to expand...
Case law, nothing. Book law.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+19.2-62

2. It shall not be a criminal offense under this chapter for a person to intercept a wire, electronic or oral communication, where such person is a party to the communication or one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception.
Click to expand...
So yes, any of you here may film my interactions with LEOs, so long as it keeps in spirit of this website's purpose. :D

That is me giving permission. ;)
 
ed

ed

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
4,841
Location
Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
imported post

TFred wrote:
Does the indicator light face forward or backward though?
Click to expand...
In another it looked like it faced the side... Yellow in standby.. and BLAZING BRIGHT BLUE (ugh) in record. But like you said.. black tape (or fingernail polish or a sharpie) might diminish it good enough.
 
Neplusultra

Neplusultra

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,224
Location
Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
imported post

ed wrote:
Anyone have one of these?
Click to expand...
Edit: I should read the whole thread before asking questions I guess, since someone already did ask the same thing :^).


What's the deal with the blue light when it's on??? Cop; "Uh, why is your pen glowing?" I do hope you can turn it on without any lights......
 
TexasNative

TexasNative

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
856
Location
Austin, TX
imported post

So Ed, when is your shipment due to arrive? I know you must have ordered at least one at that price.

~ Boyd
 
IanB

IanB

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
1,896
Location
Northern VA
imported post

Seems that as long as you are not "identifying a police officer with intent to harass" then you should be fine. See:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/09/AR2009080902126.html

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-186.4

Do stand up for your rights if challenged by police. Remember, police have NO DUTY to tell the truth unless under oath. I cannot tell you the number of times I've seen an officer tell someone to do (or stop doing) something or they would be arrested. Look at the free speech arrest threat from Reston last week for an example.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=108307
 
BB62

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
imported post

TFred wrote:
...Does the indicator light face forward or backward though? I would hope it's on the opposite side from the clip, facing back toward your shirt and not out toward the persons/events you are recording...
Click to expand...
The video clearly says "Light on back and not visible while in your shirt pocket".
 
A

alnitak

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
78
Location
Potomac Falls, Virginia, USA
imported post

nakedshoplifter wrote:
Seems that as long as you are not "identifying a police officer with intent to harass" then you should be fine. See:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/09/AR2009080902126.html

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-186.4

Do stand up for your rights if challenged by police. Remember, police have NO DUTY to tell the truth unless under oath. I cannot tell you the number of times I've seen an officer tell someone to do (or stop doing) something or they would be arrested. Look at the free speech arrest threat from Reston last week for an example.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=108307
Click to expand...

For those of you who are as upset as I am over the blatant violation of Constitutional rights as shown in that video, you can file a complaint.

Officer Cheeks is a sworn police officer with the Fairfax County (VA) School District Police. If you would like to file a complaint against Officer Cheeks, go here:

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/contact/MailForm.aspx?agId=2066

Complaints should be addressed to:

Major James A. Morris
Fairfax County Police Department
(703) 246-2918

Let Major Morris know that, contrary to what his officer thinks, this is STILL America, the Constitution has not yet been scrapped, the First Amendment still applies, and their oath requires that they respect the right to free speech of all Americans, even when the officer does not like the speech. The First Amendment does not just protect speech the officer on the scene agrees with, and he is not free to implement his own mini-Constitutional suspension zone.

They don't answer... but you can leave a message.
 
N

nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
275
Location
Winchester, Virginia, USA
imported post

ed wrote:
Anyone have one of these?
Click to expand...
Ed,

Yup, and I was wearing it at the class we attended, last week or two. I intended to turn it on (don't tell Dave) to see how well it picked up voices, but forgot to do so, when I came in late.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top