OT: Right to film police

nemo · Sep 1, 2009

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TFred wrote:

Does the indicator light face forward or backward though? I would hope it's on the opposite side from the clip, facing back toward your shirt and not out toward the persons/events you are recording.

The light faces away from the subject, when the pen is in the normal position; clipped to shirt pocket or collar. The camera lens faces toward the subject.

IanB · Sep 1, 2009

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alnitak wrote:

Complaints should be addressed to:

Major James A. Morris
Fairfax County Police Department
(703) 246-2918

Wrong info. See below:

nemo · Sep 1, 2009

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alnitak wrote:

For those of you who are as upset as I am over the blatant violation of Constitutional rights as shown in that video, you can file a complaint.

I am not as upset as you.... I am MORE upset.

They don't answer... but you can leave a message.

I first called the 24-hour number, just a few minutes ago. I said that I was calling about Wesley Cheeks. The girl there knew whohe was and immediately referred me to 571.423.12.00 (I don't know whose the number is). Another girl answered and I made the same statement. She told me thatwhat the video showedwas being investigated as a "personnel issue," and that she could make no comment. I asked her when the investigation would be concluded and she did not know. I asked her whether any public statement would be forthcoming and she did not know. All of that could even be true.

Keep those cards and letters coming!

essayons · Sep 1, 2009

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A second question:

I have seen in some recent instances, police seizing film, tapes, or in some cases the entire digital device, for evidence purposes. The most recent instance was the BART subway shooting where everyone who was filming with a cell-phone had their phone seized. The only reason some of the footage made it to the light of day was because the train doors closed before the police could seize all of the passengers' phones.

My understanding is that the police can collect your name and address, but unless the camera is used in the commission of a crime, they need a court order to supoena the film. Unfortunately I can't find any case law or other cite to support this.

nemo · Sep 1, 2009

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essayons wrote:

I have seen in some recent instances, police seizing film, tapes, or in some cases the entire digital device, for evidence purposes. The most recent instance was the BART subway shooting where everyone who was filming with a cell-phone had their phone seized. The only reason some of the footage made it to the light of day was because the train doors closed before the police could seize all of the passengers' phones.

This is all the more reason to HAVE and USE a phone, camera, or other recording device: to catch these uniformed thugs in the act. Their instinctive grabbing of all such devices is an acknowledgement that they know that they are guilty and do not want to be recognized. The rest of the story is that, even then, how very rarely does the individual uniformed thug pay ANY price for his conduct, and how very often the "internal investigation" informs the public that the cop/cops did everything "just by the book," now go away.

My understanding is that the police can collect your name and address, but unless the camera is used in the commission of a crime, they need a court order to supoena the film. Unfortunately I can't find any case law or other cite to support this.

I think that you are correct.I don't worry about any case law. The only way that cops will get my camera is to beat it out of my fingers. Unfortunately, I doubt that they would hesitate for a New York minute to do so.

Repeater · Sep 1, 2009

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nemo wrote:

alnitak wrote:

For those of you who are as upset as I am over the blatant violation of Constitutional rights as shown in that video, you can file a complaint.

Click to expand...

I am not as upset as you.... I am MORE upset.

They don't answer... but you can leave a message.

Click to expand...

I first called the 24-hour number, just a few minutes ago. I said that I was calling about Wesley Cheeks. The girl there knew whohe was and immediately referred me to 571.423.12.00 (I don't know whose the number is). Another girl answered and I made the same statement. She told me thatwhat the video showedwas being investigated as a "personnel issue," and that she could make no comment. I asked her when the investigation would be concluded and she did not know. I asked her whether any public statement would be forthcoming and she did not know. All of that could even be true.

Keep those cards and letters coming!

This is ironic. I posted about this a few days ago, only to have the thread deleted.

Maybe it was this that caused it:

Well, maybe he's coming for your guns, too. Watch out.

As for Cheeks, no response from the authorities yet? That says a lot.

Seems like Democrats in Virginia like holding town hall meetings at public schools. Nice way to exclude OC, don't you think?

Infidel · Sep 1, 2009

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alnitak wrote:

TexasNative wrote:

So Ed, when is your shipment due to arrive? I know you must have ordered at least one at that price.

Click to expand...

I think a group buy is in order!! Wonder what kind of discount we can get if we order 100 of them?

We could have Naked shoplifter get them, though I don't know where he would put them!:shock:

LOL J/K

Citizen · Sep 1, 2009

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Infidel wrote:

alnitak wrote:

TexasNative wrote:

So Ed, when is your shipment due to arrive? I know you must have ordered at least one at that price.

Click to expand...

I think a group buy is in order!! Wonder what kind of discount we can get if we order 100 of them?

Click to expand...

We could have Naked shoplifter get them, though I don't know where he would put them!:shock:

LOL J/K

No way!! Even though he got them free, that rascal would mark them up to 3%off retail...AND STILL CHARGE US SHIPPING!!! :cuss:

IanB · Sep 1, 2009

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Ohh geezzzzz... Are you still hurt from when I said you look like Matt Drudge?

Citizen · Sep 1, 2009

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nakedshoplifter wrote:

Ohh geezzzzz... Are you still hurt from when I said you look like Matt Drudge?

When I saw you had posted, I knew it was going to be something funny, but I never expected that.

IanB · Sep 1, 2009

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Where's HankT when I need him? Citizen is at 6800 posts!

IanB · Sep 1, 2009

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Infidel wrote:

We could have Naked shoplifter get them, though I don't know where he would put them!:shock:

LOL J/K

I carry personal belongings in my Tinky-Winky purse.

Infidel · Sep 1, 2009

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nakedshoplifter wrote:

Infidel wrote:

We could have Naked shoplifter get them, though I don't know where he would put them!:shock:

LOL J/K

Click to expand...

I carry personal belongings in my Tinky-Winky purse.

I didn't know Obama was on this forum!

architect · Sep 1, 2009

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nakedshoplifter wrote:

I carry personal belongings in my Tinky-Winky purse.

You just know he's packing a Desert Eagle in there!

Citizen · Sep 1, 2009

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nakedshoplifter wrote:

SNIP Where's HankT when I need him? Citizen is at 6800 posts![pic]

Ouch!!!!

OK. You win!! I give up!

richarcm · Sep 1, 2009

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alnitak wrote:

nakedshoplifter wrote:

Seems that as long as you are not "identifying a police officer with intent to harass" then you should be fine. See:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/09/AR2009080902126.html

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-186.4

Do stand up for your rights if challenged by police. Remember, police have NO DUTY to tell the truth unless under oath. I cannot tell you the number of times I've seen an officer tell someone to do (or stop doing) something or they would be arrested. Look at the free speech arrest threat from Reston last week for an example.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=108307

Click to expand...

For those of you who are as upset as I am over the blatant violation of Constitutional rights as shown in that video, you can file a complaint.

Officer Cheeks is a sworn police officer with the Fairfax County (VA) School District Police. If you would like to file a complaint against Officer Cheeks, go here:

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/contact/MailForm.aspx?agId=2066

Complaints should be addressed to:

Major James A. Morris
Fairfax County Police Department
(703) 246-2918

Let Major Morris know that, contrary to what his officer thinks, this is STILL America, the Constitution has not yet been scrapped, the First Amendment still applies, and their oath requires that they respect the right to free speech of all Americans, even when the officer does not like the speech. The First Amendment does not just protect speech the officer on the scene agrees with, and he is not free to implement his own mini-Constitutional suspension zone.

They don't answer... but you can leave a message.

In regards to Mr. Cheeks I have already submitted a complaint and received a response (do not contact the Fairfax County Police Department):

To Whom It May Concern:

Wesley Cheeks is not a Fairfax County police officer, he is a security
officer employed by the Fairfax County Public Schools. You may go to
http://www.fcps.edu to contact the School's Department of Communication
and Community Outreach concerning this matter. They may also be reached
by phone at 571-423-1200.

I would like to apologize for this generic response but if there is any
other matter I can assist you with please let me know.

Sincerely,

Lieutenant Chris Marsh
Commander, Investigations Division
Internal Affairs Bureau
Fairfax County Police Department
(703) 246-4248

richarcm · Sep 1, 2009

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I just noticed that Nakedshoplifter also received the same response. Sorry for the double post.

Neplusultra · Sep 2, 2009

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Infidel wrote:

alnitak wrote:

TexasNative wrote:

So Ed, when is your shipment due to arrive? I know you must have ordered at least one at that price.

Click to expand...

I think a group buy is in order!! Wonder what kind of discount we can get if we order 100 of them?

Click to expand...

We could have Naked shoplifter get them, though I don't know where he would put them!:shock:

LOL J/K

Hey, that's my joke!

codename_47 · Sep 2, 2009

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Not really OC related, but I've been looking into the legality of filming police, the legality of police ordering a photographer or filmographer to cease filming, and when the police can seize cameras or film.

Filming the police is generally legal everywhere. You have no right to privacy in an open field...or parking lot...or public street...or really anywhere outside your home with obvious exceptions being bathrooms, changing rooms, etc...because the supreme court says so:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_fields_doctrine

No right to privacy = subject to recording. If you don't like it, go behind closed doors somewhere.

What I've found so far has been largely on blogs and in newspaper articles, with very little unbiased facts or cite's. It seems that it varies quite a bit from state to state as well, so I was wondering what VA statutes apply.

I haven't seen ANY state prohibitions on VIDEO recording. I have seen one, Mass, I believe that prohibits audio recording in public. I saw one case where a guy was arrested for it, and it went to the state supreme court and he lost.

Check out Commonwealth v Hyde. This is the ONLY state where audio wiretapping has resulted in a conviction in a public place that I have seen.

http://www.citmedialaw.org/blog/2007/massachusetts-wiretapping-law-strikes-again

I'd be VERY leery about a cop trying to seize a recording for ANY purpose, evidence or otherwise. They could try to get me as a witness, ask for my name and such, but taking a recording, particularly of questionable police actions, ummm doesn't smell very good to me.

I prefer to avoid the whole physical confrontation of it by relying on hidden recording devices...

riverrat10k · Sep 3, 2009

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Gotta get me one'a them puppies.

OT: Right to film police

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