Atlantic Magazine: Carrying guns to protests counterproductive, but not dangerous

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

I'm not a big fan of being intimidated... directly or possibly. If anyone acts up toward an open carrier... (attempting to take the weapon) I expectthe perpetrator(s)toreap the immediateconsequences.

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Agreed, and within rights.... do you think that someday the type of holster might play a part? not in the right to carry, but in avoiding lawsuits if a BG grabbed the weapon of a OCer and harmed others? I rarely use a full retention holster, but, I have a concealed weapon. If, someday, I was to travel to an OC state, I can only guess that investing in a retention holster would bewise. I can hardly blame a flake for grabbing a gun I dangled in front of him, and nobody in this world is good enough to have 360 degree vision to always see it coming.

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So far I have primarily OCed only at events and in my rural neighborhood, in part because I do not have a retention holster so for me yes investing in a good quality holster like a Black Hawk Serpa is part of the plan before I OC regularly.

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I use your basic thunb-break for retention in all my holsters (except the G-Code). That and the "hi-ride" mode I prefer means someone trying a gun-grab would have to put their arm and hand in an awkward position, conducive to breaking if one knows the right moves. And there are carbon-fiber holsters with even more agressive retention, such as the one used by the OCer in PA which he had to help the police figure out how to get the wepon out.

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I carry cross draw at 10 O'Clock (butt reversed). Thumb break strap added to a Bianchi UM-84, altho I could re-install the flap. At any rate... they'd have to reach for it from within my vision. That could get 'em thepointy end of a Gerber MK II quickly. The present concern would be a slung long gun grabbed from behind. I'd suggest anyone attending/carrying at these rallies go in pairs at least. We know who the real nuts are 'n it's not us.

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Milkmanjoe,

To answer your original question about the "mechanics" of OC.

Here in Tennessee we have to ahve a Handgun Carry Permit (HCP) to carry a loaded handgun. With that HCP we have the option to CC or OC. I prefer OC at all times, unless the weather is wet or cold.

My reasons for preferring OC are as follows:

I don't have to dress around my weapon, meaning I don't have to make sure that what I wear will cover my firearm sufficiently enough that it can not be detected. Some of the CC only states are real sticklers about this. During the hot summer it is more comfortable to OC.

If I have to draw my weapon in a hurry, I won't have to dig it out from under clothing if it is OC.

I believe that OC has a deterrant factor that CC doesn't have. I'm not looking to get into a gunfight, so if the BG sees that I am armed, there's less chance that I will get into one.

OC in public is a way to de-sensitize the public to the idea of regular law abiding citizens carrying firearms. It's a counter measure to the propaganda the anti-gun groups spew to cause public fear about armed citizens.

I'm hoping that by OC'ing in my community everyday, it might discourage liberal anti-gunners from moving in.

BTW, I either carry a CZ82 9mm in a Mil/Police service thumb break holster at 9 o:clock with a spare mag opposite or a SA .45 revolver crossdraw at 10 o:clock withone or twobelt slide cartidge holders(6 rounds per)at 2 o:clock.

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Task Force 16 wrote:

Milkmanjoe,

To answer your original question about the "mechanics" of OC.

Here in Tennessee we have to ahve a Handgun Carry Permit (HCP) to carry a loaded handgun. With that HCP we have the option to CC or OC. I prefer OC at all times, unless the weather is wet or cold.

My reasons for preferring OC are as follows:

I don't have to dress around my weapon, meaning I don't have to make sure that what I wear will cover my firearm sufficiently enough that it can not be detected. Some of the CC only states are real sticklers about this. During the hot summer it is more comfortable to OC.

If I have to draw my weapon in a hurry, I won't have to dig it out from under clothing if it is OC.

I believe that OC has a deterrant factor that CC doesn't have. I'm not looking to get into a gunfight, so if the BG sees that I am armed, there's less chance that I will get into one.

OC in public is a way to de-sensitize the public to the idea of regular law abiding citizens carrying firearms. It's a counter measure to the propaganda the anti-gun groups spew to cause public fear about armed citizens.

I'm hoping that by OC'ing in my community everyday, it might discourage liberal anti-gunners from moving in.

BTW, I either carry a CZ82 9mm in a Mil/Police service thumb break holster at 9 o:clock with a spare mag opposite or a SA .45 revolver crossdraw at 10 o:clock withone or twobelt slide cartidge holders (6 rounds per)at 2 o:clock.

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This and a few of the last posts are exactly what I mean, all in a good way.While I am "stuck" with CC, and am pro OC, the light years apart the two are is becoming more evident here. I struggle with dressing around my weapon every day to the point of buying and practicing with the smallest .45's available. Have friends who carry KelTecP380's as a primary in extreme heat, that's nuts! And many of us have talked about what I call "The Pussy Syndrome" which is badically that you back down from any, andI mean any, controversial situation, whereas if an OC weapon was visible these situations wouldn't even occur much of the time. Put it this way, I am a retired powerlifter, and my weight while competing would vary, between 165 to up to 235 pounds. At 165 little old ladies would bump into me in KMart likeI didn't matter, at 235 people step to the side to let me pass. I'm 5'6" in height. Size matters, so does the visibility issue, same with OCing, great deterrent. I just hope some flake doesn't grab an OCers weapon at one of these rallies, but if one does, I hope the investigation would show they were put up to it.

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milkmanjoe wrote:

Since my little world, and I mean that sincerely, only has Concealed Carry, I would like to better understand if members here prefer Open Carry, or is Open Carry a legal avenue to have local goverments lean to Concealed Carry for them in the future. I have read that Open Carry is sometimes pursued because that is what the particular state government law allows, but members want to conceal. The question is both for me to understand you OCers better, and I wonder if, what if, these people carrying at political events were carrying concealed would it be so controversial since nobody would know. Please fill me and other CCers here in so we can be well informed.

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I Open Carry outside of work hours. On weekends I treat OC as an opportunity to educate as many people as possible so I OC either a full size H&K USP or a Colt 1911 in 10mm in a retention holster. I CC and OC out of personal responsibility. When I OC I take on the role of ambassador because my every move can be scrutized and gun-owners, in general, held to account. When I OC I always carry a digital voice recorder so all conversations will be recorded accurately to ensure I can't be accused of something I didn't say or do if something goes sideways.

OC assures I will always be polite, friendly and considerate. I hold more doors open for others when I OC. I rarely speed anyway, but nonetheless I am a more polite driver when I carry. Unless I am pressed for time I will speak with anyone who has questions about or questions the legality or sensibility of personal protection with a firearm. I carry informational cards (courtesy of Ed on this board) covering the legality of OC in Virginia and hand them out freely to anyone with questions. When I have them available I also wear and hand out fluorescent orange buttons with Guns Save Lives on them.

I see scowls, nervous stares, flickering glances, astonished wide eyes and rolling "he's one of those" eyes. I've been asked if I feel threatened in a particular place, "Goodness, no." I've been asked to move in a restaurant so my firearm wasn't the very first thing people saw when they walked in the door which I was happy to accomodate. OC is the only legal way to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol in VA. I've been informed that carrying a gun will not lower the prices (Best Buy) "I certainly hope not." I asked hotest female police officer I have ever seen about her full length arm tattoos while OC'ing. I OC at political fundraisers and while volunteering on political campaigns.

People who don't have exposure to citizens carrying firearms often believe that only police and criminals have guns. (Why wouldn't they? It's precisely what the media and TV say.) CC does not improve that situation due to the out-of-sight out-of-mind factor. OC can and does. Sometimes others are nervous or uncomfortable. Sometimes they want to tell you about it or even berate you for carrying (or for their discomfort). I'm happy to engage anyone who is genuinely interested or concerned to the extent they are willing to bring their brain to the conversation and not just their reflexive or emotional reactions. There are things I will happily say to deflect a wild-eyed spit-talker that I wouldn't dream of saying to someone who genuinely wants to know why I carry even if they obviously disapprove.

Anyway...that's my $0.02

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milkmanjoe wrote:

Yes, you are correct, I, of all people, have no understanding of law. Let's try it this way to see if you, or someone else, can be less defensive and provide a simple answer.

Do you prefer Open Carry or Concealed Carry and why?

Please, in simple terms of purely mechanical or safety reasons.

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I myself OC most of the time, I do have CHP to CC in va. Being able to CC is a convenience and a choice under some situations. Mostly, I don't want to deal with being told I am CC because of a coat or some other silliness that is unintended.

Because I have a CHP, I call my mod of carry....sloppy carry, i.e. I don't have to worry if it is CC or OC at any given moment. The concern of printing or accidental concealment is not an issue or a thought for me, with the exception of if I am having dinner somewhere that also serves alcohol. Va still requires OC in restaurants that serve alcohol.

So, sloppy carry is for me... If you can call carrying an HK45 in a retention holster sloppy!



PS-I hate that one must have a CHP to conceal carry...it should be like OC, simply a mode of carry/one way to express your 2A rights. If your a prohibited person that should not have a firearm to begin with, fine punish someone for that. A law abiding citizen should not have to ask for permission to OC or CC.....that is to say to carry however they see fit. Open, Concealed or Sloppy!

That is how I see it anyway.


*for spelling*

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I have been thinking about that statement (open carrying at political events is counterproductive) off and on for a couple days. I believe that this has turned out to be exactly the opposite of that.

First, it has taken the issue of open carry to a higher level in the national political debate.

Second, it has (once again) shown everybody that the anti-gunners are wrong when it comes to what theysay about us.

Third, it has shown that at least one of the MSM outlets is so biased on the issue that they fabricated a story about OC - and got caught doing it.

The down side is, well, what? It gave the naysayers of every stripe a chance to say it again? I don't really see that as much of a loss. More like status quo.

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If it is counterproductive, then why is it having precisely the desired effect; making people talk and think about it.

Oh, yeah. Because those ranting about it are projecting their own beliefs about what they think it was done for, and that isn't happening.... So they think it was counter productive in their own minds. Their own minds being a place where no other thought, idea, or perspective shall ever enter.... Especially, reality.