Shipping a Gun

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I have a .22 Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto. My dad wants to purchase it from me. I live in Idaho and he lives in Cali. Is it legal to ship it to him? And if so how do I go about it it? Do I ship the gun in one box, the clips in the 2nd and let him buy the ammo? I want to do this right and don't want any issues. My Dad just wants to be able to protect himself and my Mom. I have never shipped a gun, I always deliver.

Thanks for any help, by the way this is a great site, gladI found it.

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IANAL, but if memory serves, Cali is one of those places that requires an FFL-based transfer no matter what the circumstance. If that is the case, then you would need to pick out a local gun shop in your town, and one near your father in Cali, and arrange a transfer through them. Shop around, as the fees for this can definitely vary.


As far as the intended purpose, I'd really have to recommend keeping the .22 for yourself to plink with (or even giving it to them to plink and practice with) and have your father pick up something in a more beefy caliber locally. It's VERY true that any caliber is better than none, but I personally wouldn't even consider trusting my life or the life of a loved one to a .22 if given the option. 9mm or better in my book =)

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Figures, i will just wait until xmas and take it out then.

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Hopefully a Cali resident with some more info will chime in (you might also want to check the California section of these forums) on all the the involved legalities in more detail than I can. Even hand-delivered would (again, don't quote me, but I'm 99% sure of this) be illegal.

Person-to-person transfers don't give Kommiefornia any chance to track the gun/owners, and that angers the the state =)


Some info I just found:

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php

What is the process for purchasing a firearm in California?

All firearms purchases and transfers, including private party transactions and sales at gun shows, must be made through a licensed dealer under the Dealer Record of Sale (DROS) process. California imposes a 10-day waiting period before a firearm can be released to a buyer or transferee. A person must be at least 18 years of age to purchase a rifle or shotgun. To buy a handgun, a person must be at least 21 years of age, and either 1) possess an HSC plus successfully complete a safety demonstration with the handgun being purchased or 2) qualify for an HSC exemption.

As part of the DROS process, the buyer must present "clear evidence of identity and age" which is defined as a valid, non-expired California Driver's License or Identification Card issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles. A military identification accompanied by permanent duty station orders indicating a posting in California is also acceptable.

If the buyer is not a U.S. Citizen, then he or she is required to demonstrate that he or she is legally within the United States by providing to the firearms dealer with documentation that contains his/her Alien Registration Number or I-94 Number.

Purchasers of handguns are also required to provide proof of California residency, such as a utility bill, residential lease, property deed, or government-issued identification (other than a drivers license or other DMV-issued identification).
(PC Section 12071)


Looks like the fees could add up substantially. $19 for the 'DROS' thing, and probably more than that from each FFL dealer involved (~$35 seems to be common.)

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What is my dad never registers it and leaves it in my name. I have owned this gun for almost 20 years. I bought it as a gift for my wife. It is a eautiful Chrome Lady Smith & Wesson. My wife has moved up to my older S&W 9mm and I have my Sigma 9mm. I get it back when he is done with it.

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josie02av wrote:

Figures, i will just wait until xmas and take it out then.

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I don't think you're paying attention. In California, any firearm* transfer has to be accomplished through an FFL. So even if you hand carry it with you, a gun shop or pawn shop will have to transfer it to your father after he accomplishes the Form 4473. And some FFL's won't accept a firearm from anyone other than another FFL, which you are not.

Besides, as nice of a gun as a 22A is (I love mine), it's not a self defense weapon.



* I'm not 100% sure that long guns have the same requirement.

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Well so much for that idea.

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josie02av wrote:

What is my dad never registers it and leaves it in my name. I have owned this gun for almost 20 years. I bought it as a gift for my wife. It is a eautiful Chrome Lady Smith & Wesson. My wife has moved up to my older S&W 9mm and I have my Sigma 9mm. I get it back when he is done with it.

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Then your dad better never get caught in possession of an unregistered handgun... I don't know what the pentalty is, but I wouldn't advise testing the waters. Even if he returns it 'when he is done with it' he will still have been illegally possessing a handgun for the duration.

Since it doesn't sound like time is of any major factor, I'd strongly recommend he just buy something locally (ideally much bigger than .22 even) and avoid the whole interstate-transfer-in-a-commie-state thing.

As much as all of this sounds insane, that's because we are from states that have not trampled our 2nd amendment rights entirely. California, on the other hand, is probably THE strictest state in the union when it comes to anything involving guns, but even moreso when it comes to handguns.

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josie02av wrote:

... It is a beautiful Chrome Lady Smith & Wesson...

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If you'd be interested in selling it to someone who'd give it a great home, please contact me. It might make great anniversary present for my wife.

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Even an FFL licensee has to also have some registration number assigned by the California Department of Justice and/or Attorney General to be able to legally ship approved guns into California (c.f. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcoverview.php).Strangely, this applies to dealers and not collectors. Fortunately (for the rest of us), they are unique in this respect.

-ljp

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josie02av wrote:

I have a .22 Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto. My dad wants to purchase it from me. I live in Idaho and he lives in Cali. Is it legal to ship it to him? And if so how do I go about it it? Do I ship the gun in one box, the clips in the 2nd and let him buy the ammo? I want to do this right and don't want any issues. My Dad just wants to be able to protect himself and my Mom. I have never shipped a gun, I always deliver.

Thanks for any help, by the way this is a great site, gladI found it.

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The cheapest way is to have your local friendly FFL ship it via USPS to Dad's local friendly FFL. It's not a transfer, just a courtesy.

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smoking357 wrote:

josie02av wrote:

I have a .22 Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto. My dad wants to purchase it from me. I live in Idaho and he lives in Cali. Is it legal to ship it to him? And if so how do I go about it it? Do I ship the gun in one box, the clips in the 2nd and let him buy the ammo? I want to do this right and don't want any issues. My Dad just wants to be able to protect himself and my Mom. I have never shipped a gun, I always deliver.

Thanks for any help, by the way this is a great site, gladI found it.

Click to expand...

The cheapest way is to have your local friendly FFL ship it via USPS to Dad's local friendly FFL. It's not a transfer, just a courtesy.

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How is this not a transfer? Dad wants to purchase, seller and buyer are in two different states.

TFred

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Due to the insanity of those liderals in Cali,I thinkI will just have him get one locally. It just blows my mind how much crap you need to do in Cali. This is why I live in Idaho.

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josie02av wrote:

Due to the insanity of those liderals in Cali,I thinkI will just have him get one locally. It just blows my mind how much crap you need to do in Cali. This is why I live in Idaho.

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If you look at some of the on-line gun auction sites, many of the sellers say right on the page for their items "we do not ship to California". Of course this doesn't upset the Califormmunists one little bit, and I think they would probably consider that reaction a "win".

TFred

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I think all Interstate transfers have to bethough FFL's. Kalifornya has some restrictions on firearms, too. Like mag capacity (10 round max), color. Have they gone to requiring Visa's/Passports to visit that country, yet?

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Task Force 16 wrote:

I think all Interstate transfers have to bethough FFL's. Kalifornya has some restrictions on firearms, too. Like mag capacity (10 round max), color. Have they gone to requiring Visa's/Passports to visit that country, yet?

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IANAL, but see the post I made in this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/30799.html

It appears that there may be an exception for guns that are inherited. Any lawyers know more about this?

TFred



Interesting! It looks as though there may be an inheritance exception for interstate transfer.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/18usc_chap44.pdf

Search for "bequest".

TFred (learns new things every day, but remember IAstillNAL!)

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TFred wrote:

Interesting! It looks as though there may be an inheritance exception for interstate transfer.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/18usc_chap44.pdf

Search for "bequest".

TFred (learns new things every day, but remember IAstillNAL!)

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A transfer from a living son to a living father is not a bequest. Someone has to die for it to be a bequest.

This is an interstate transfer. It must go through an FFL in the recipient's state of residence. It doesn't have to be sent by an FFL, but doing so can be cheaper, because FFLs can use cheaper shipping options than the general public.

Alternatively, Josie can drive it over in person, but still has to take it to a California FFL to legally complete the transfer.

Also, Josie: it's NOT "registered in your name". Not in Idaho, because there is no registration there.

Yes, you could just drive it over, and let him claim that he owned it before registration was required. It would be illegal, but it wouldn't be wrong. Make up your own mind about which you're willing to accept.

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I believe it is easier than what people are saying.
You may give the gun to your father if:

1) The gun is legal to own in CA. (on the approved handguns list)
2) He is not otherwise prohibited from owning a handgun.
3) He submits the form FD 4544A (10/04) with $19 to the DoJ. The form is available on their website.

If you deliver it to him personally or he picks it up you're good to go. If you ship it an FFL needs to get involved.
The best bet would be to hand deliver it.

Can I give a firearm to my adult child? Can he/she give it back to me later? Yes, as long as the adult child receiving the firearm is not in a prohibited category PDF logo [PDF 10 kb / 1 pg] and the firearm is a legal firearm to possess, the transfer of a firearm between a parent and child or a grandparent and grandchild is exempt from the dealer transfer requirement. However, if the firearm is a handgun, you must submit an Report of Operation of Law or Intra-Familial Handgun Transaction PDF logo [PDF 481 kb / 2 pg] and $19 fee to the DOJ within 30 days. Assault weapons may not be transferred in this fashion. See Penal Code section 12285, subdivision (b). (PC section 12078(c))

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http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#20

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KBCraig wrote:

TFred wrote:

Interesting! It looks as though there may be an inheritance exception for interstate transfer.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/18usc_chap44.pdf

Search for "bequest".

TFred (learns new things every day, but remember IAstillNAL!)

Click to expand...

A transfer from a living son to a living father is not a bequest. Someone has to die for it to be a bequest.

This is an interstate transfer. It must go through an FFL in the recipient's state of residence. It doesn't have to be sent by an FFL, but doing so can be cheaper, because FFLs can use cheaper shipping options than the general public.

Alternatively, Josie can drive it over in person, but still has to take it to a California FFL to legally complete the transfer.

Also, Josie: it's NOT "registered in your name". Not in Idaho, because there is no registration there.

Yes, you could just drive it over, and let him claim that he owned it before registration was required. It would be illegal, but it wouldn't be wrong. Make up your own mind about which you're willing to accept.

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I never said this particular transfer was a bequest. I was responding to the previous poster who said "I think all Interstate transfers have to bethough FFL's."

My point was that if the transfer is a bequest, it appears that the FFL requirement does not apply. I added that IANAL, so I cannot be sure, but the code that I linked to does seem to say that. The quote I added to the bottom of my post was from the other thread that was specifically about a gun that was inherited. I did post a link to that thread to prevent just this sort of confusion. Apparently that effort was not successful...

TFred