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Thread: I found this puzzling

  1. #1
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    When I was firing for qualification for a carry permit of course I tried to fire as tight a group as possible.

    Imagine my surprise when the young lady conducting the class told me that was wrong. She said she needed to see 50 holes in the silhouette. So I shot it that way, scattering 50 rounds all over the place and receiving a perfect score.

    My question is: 1) what does this have to do with proficiency, and
    2)has anyone else encountered this?

    I realize this is of no consequence but I found it curious.

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    Perhaps she was trying to make it easier on herself to score you.

    It is my belief that most "qualification" tests in regards to state issued carry licenses are just there to make money for the state. They are usually so ridiculously easy that anyone can qualify.

    In Kentucky my mom was interested in getting a concealed carry permit. According to the tester all she needed to do to show proficiency was to hit a chest sized target seven feet away 11 times out of 20 shots.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Wow, that's just weird.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Probably not the best "educational dollars" you have ever spent...

    TFred


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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    Here in AZ, I believe a CWP appliant must fire 5 rounds at 15 feet, and 5 rounds at 30 feet, with a 70% accuracy rate overall for the 10 rounds.

    Personally, I prefer an easy qualification, to ensure as many as possible can excercise their "legislated right" (??!??), as opposed to making it some uber-marksman qualification, which would serve to deny people the option of carrying concealed.

    A $65 state processing fee, an 8 hour class on legal matters, a 10 round basic qual, a $10 fingerprint card, and a $100-150 class, and 75 days to wait for a bureaucrat to push paper is way to much government for "shall not be infringed", but I've seen a lot worse. Here's hoping "Constitutional Carry" passes next year (as it would have this year, had the budget fiasco screwed it up last session).

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    old dog wrote:
    When I was firing for qualification for a carry permit of course I tried to fire as tight a group as possible.

    Imagine my surprise when the young lady conducting the class told me that was wrong. She said she needed to see 50 holes in the silhouette. So I shot it that way, scattering 50 rounds all over the place and receiving a perfect score.

    My question is: 1) what does this have to do with proficiency, and
    2)has anyone else encountered this?

    I realize this is of no consequence but I found it curious.
    Here are two eternal truths of what we do:

    Speed is fine, but accuracy is final. -Bill Jordan

    There's always time to aim.

    The lady is flat wrong. Always aim, and if you have to shoot, you'll have less of a chance of hitting something you don't want to put holes in.

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    Food for thought...

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...apons_pg2.html

    Blind Man Who Has Concealed Weapons Permit Still at Center of Gun Debate

    McWilliams admits that becoming a successful writer is difficult, but so is dealing with blindness. He lost his eyesight at age 10 during a medical mystery of headaches and gradual eye deterioration. McWilliams reads Braille, uses a cane, and shoots his AK47, even though it was his .357 magnum that was fired for his permits.



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    Why didn't you just shoot this pattern?

    oooooooo ooooooo
    o o o
    o o o
    ooooooo o o
    o o o
    o o o
    ooooooo ooooooo

    I think that would show sufficient proficiency! Probably stop the BG too.

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    I think it mainly depends on the class size, range size and how many weapons are available.In the class I attended, there was one fella that painstakingly aimed every shot to stay in the 10 ring, I guess it was for self satisfaction, because all who hit 10 in the silouhette passed the shooting session, maybe he was looking to win a stuffed teddy bear, I don't knowbut it did drag out the timeframe needed for the other shooters.

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    I was required to shoot a double tap, one to head,one to groin, then repeat for a specific number of rounds, right and left handwhile doingtac reloads.

    Other people I know were required to to shoot as fast as they could while maintaining control of the pistol until their mag was empty or all rounds in their revolver was spent. All rounds were required to hit an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper at 7 yards.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    old dog wrote:
    When I was firing for qualification for a carry permit of course I tried to fire as tight a group as possible.

    Imagine my surprise when the young lady conducting the class told me that was wrong. She said she needed to see 50 holes in the silhouette. So I shot it that way, scattering 50 rounds all over the place and receiving a perfect score.

    My question is: 1) what does this have to do with proficiency, and
    2)has anyone else encountered this?

    I realize this is of no consequence but I found it curious.
    Mind filling in your location? I'd like to know where this is that 50 holes have to be in a target.

    It is a total joke. The anti's just like to make it seem to the rest of the world that they are forcing you to do their bidding with something complicated. 'Qualification tests.' Oooo they must be doing something useful there...

    Testing the most firearm proficient people on earth with a test that a monkey could pass... All it really proves is that shooting is easy and effective, and pretty much anyone can do it.

    I'd really hate to meet the person who couldn't pass these 'tests.' I'm not sure such a person even exists.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    Food for thought...

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...apons_pg2.html

    Blind Man Who Has Concealed Weapons Permit Still at Center of Gun Debate

    McWilliams admits that becoming a successful writer is difficult, but so is dealing with blindness. He lost his eyesight at age 10 during a medical mystery of headaches and gradual eye deterioration. McWilliams reads Braille, uses a cane, and shoots his AK47, even though it was his .357 magnum that was fired for his permits.
    I'm legally blind, but my glasses correct my vision to 20/20.

    Being 'blind' in the eyes of the law is not as bad as it sounds. Even legally blind, I can still see pedestrians, other cars, motorycles, etc. I can drive just as effectively as with my glasses on. I can't read signs, but I can see them. This is far more than enough vision to use a firearm safely and effectively.

    I'm not sure how bad his eyesight really is, but 'blind' is often misconstrued as 'can't see a damn thing' and that simply isn't true in most cases.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    ixtow wrote:
    fired for his permits.
    I'm legally blind, but my glasses correct my vision to 20/20.

    Being 'blind' in the eyes of the law is not as bad as it sounds. Even legally blind, I can still see pedestrians, other cars, motorycles, etc. I can drive just as effectively as with my glasses on. I can't read signs, but I can see them. This is far more than enough vision to use a firearm safely and effectively.

    I'm not sure how bad his eyesight really is, but 'blind' is often misconstrued as 'can't see a damn thing' and that simply isn't true in most cases.
    I'm in the same boat ixtow. My right eye will correct to 20/20 but my left eye jumps back and forth from 20/30-20/50, lazy-eye I guess it is. That's amazing your vision corrects to 20/20. My doctors over the years, many by the way, have told me there's nothing that can be done with my eyes. And yes, the bifocals really suck a big one.

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    ixtow, Carter's in Harrison, Tn.

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    When I took my CHP here in Virginia they said you had to hit the target 70% of the time of 50 shots. (35 of 50 for the math challenged)

    We shot at 3 yard, 7 yards and 15 yards.

    both hands, right handed,left handed

    double tap, off target repeat

    The 15 yards left handed made me nervous but I was able to get a 100% score.

    Prior to shooting I had asked the instructor, "What happens if we shoot through the same hole?" and he laughed but said if you are concentrating all your fire to the same spot creating a larger hole he would give you the benefit of the doubt.

    A couple other amusing side notes. This was the second time I shot my new (1st) pistol so I wasn't that familiar with it. The woman to the left of me shot once (maybe into the ceiling) put the gun down and walked out. She was shaking and said she never wanted to shoot another gun. The guy to the right of me was creating a very large hole in the center of the target and made me jealous. The man to the right of him was loading the bullets in backwards. After the instructor finally showed him how to load the magazine I believe he shot the wrong target a lane over (while aiming at his target mind you).

    I hope that guy gets some practice but don't want to be anywhere near him while he gets it.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    When I took the class for my Ohio license, shooting at 7 yards with my Glock 19 was so easy that I ran out of shootable area on the target. I started shooting at the copywrite, the NRA logo, and anything else I could use as an aiming point.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Frankly, this sounds like an instructor who feels some 'need' to see all 50 holes to 'prove' that 50 rounds were fired and hit the target.
    If it were me doing that course, the guy who obliterated the 9/10ring area with 50 shots does not need to 'prove' they used all 50 rounds.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    wrightme wrote:
    Frankly, this sounds like an instructor who feels some 'need' to see all 50 holes to 'prove' that 50 rounds were fired and hit the target.
    If it were me doing that course, the guy who obliterated the 9/10ring area with 50 shots does not need to 'prove' they used all 50 rounds.
    It is probably less about the instructor, and more about whatever govcrim it has to be shown to. I'd hate to lose my job as an instructor because some asshat politician "just can't beleive" that people can put 50 rounds into a half-dollar.....
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    When I took my CHL class the instructor informed us that if we putall rounds in the 8 ring of the silhouette from 3 and 7 yards, we pass. I shot at the trees behind the target from 15 yards, on purpose. He never caught on.

    There was a lady there that had never picked up a handgun before and passed, no problem.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
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    Gee all I had to do was put down my $60 and a set of fingerprints, but the Washington permit is one of the easiest in the country to get. No classes, no tests, no live fire drills, etc...

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    old dog wrote:


    My question is: 1) what does this have to do with proficiency, and
    2)has anyone else encountered this?



    I got the same crap from some a$$hat when I first qualified at the police academy. I had one jagged hole in the middle of the forehead of the "Coke Bottle" target. The 'instructor" told me that he couldn't count the number of hits and that I would have to shoot again and that I have should not have shot the target in the head.Of course I protested to no avail. (At Mott Lake we were trained to shoot at a 2-inch band across the eyes. Old habits die hard I guess!)

    I re-shot at the center of the target and again there was one jagged hole, this time in dead center of the target. The instructor told me I was a wise ass and to get off of "his" range.

    He had to give me 50 out of 50 because the Senior Rangemaster was watching and confirmed the score.
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
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    I didn't have time to read the entire thread because I am on break at work. Sorry if this has been mentioned already.

    My guess is if it is required to have 50 hits in a designated area then how does an instructor prove you qualified if you have one ragged hole that could of been made with 20 good shots? Someone that wanted to make that instructors life difficult could argue they passed you with a failing score.

    Not saying its good or bad, just saying that could be the rational.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Premo wrote:
    I didn't have time to read the entire thread because I am on break at work. Sorry if this has been mentioned already.

    My guess is if it is required to have 50 hits in a designated area then how does an instructor prove you qualified if you have one ragged hole that could of been made with 20 good shots? Someone that wanted to make that instructors life difficult could argue they passed you with a failing score.

    Not saying its good or bad, just saying that could be the rational.
    Anyone with the ability to make one jagged hole with 20 shots can probably do it with 50.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    I had quite the CC class. I shot one huge hole, .45 cal. But it was a bit low and left. Jerking the trigger a bit. Went to a 9mm after the class. The one armed guy had a better looking target than I did. The guy next to me shooting the 1911 was pretty mean with it. An old guy on the other side of the range pointed the gun at his stomach when he tried to unload a round. The RO had to grab the gun and put his finger under the exposed hammer to keep him from shooting himself. He was asked to leave. One lady, with little gun experience, went through 3 guns trying to find something she could use. Finally ended up shooting a .22. We shot 100 rds total. Needless to say the range took a long time. But after 100 rds they knew who could and who could not handle a weapon. Overall they did a good job of handling everyone. I did not find out about the old guy for a few weeks.

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