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Thread: Carrying at school

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    With school about to start I thought it would be a good idea to check on school rules to make sure I stay on the outside of a cell.

    My understanding is that with a CHP you can carry concealed in car in the parking lot driveway etc. But you can NOT get out of the car with the gun. So if you do have to get out what do you do.

    1. I have heard the opinion that if you take it off that you have unconcealed it therefore you are in violation. What if you use a cover cloth to hide it until it is put away? Would this be sufficient?

    2. I have heard someone say that again you can't do this because the gun would be out of your control. But is it is a locked car wouldn't that still be under your control? Also since a locked trunk is legal, why wouldn't a locked car be? Would it have to be in a separate locked box?

    Thanks,

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    With a CHP, the gun must stay concealed and you must stay in the car. The gun cant be openly displayed and you cant get out with it.

    I would imagine that you could cover it with something while you are unholstering but that may inhibit your safe handling and is probably not a wise choice.

    If I had to get out, I'd probably secure it in my trunk before entering school property.
    James Reynolds

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    Unloaded in the trunk in a case.

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    Paper bag, sitting right next to me.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    What if your kid needs help getting out of the car or trips and falls. Dad can't help now because he is facing charges(class 6 felony) if he so much as opens the door to his car. Just unload it and stick it in the trunk before you get to the school. An unloaded shotgun in a rack is allowed though

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    "The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to........ a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk."

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    I can assume your "WI" is directed at me.

    "WI" an upset parent decides to start shooting while in the traffic circle, that gun in the trunk is useless, why not leave it at home.

    I can unload and secure (locked case)my firearm without anyone knowing inside that paper bag.

    Life is a gamble, let each person choose what works best for them.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Agent19 wrote:
    Paper bag, sitting right next to me.
    Paper bags like folded newspapers have some interesting/creative uses.

    IMO you are not brandishing if you have your hand inside a paper bag any more than if you have your hand in your pocket. Both eliminate the draw stoke time factor.

    Excuse me, sir; but I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't point your paper bag at me. :?

    If you try this in live fire practice, watch out for flaming bags.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    One would think it would be almost impossible for a brandishing charge to stick.


    The paper bag canalso beused in other situations, read the thread by Bubb4H.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony; however, if the person possesses any firearm within a public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school building and intends to use, or attempts to use, such firearm, or displays such weapon in a threatening manner, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of five years to be served consecutively with any other sentence.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony; however, if the person possesses any firearm within a public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school building and intends to use, or attempts to use, such firearm, or displays such weapon in a threatening manner, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of five years to be served consecutively with any other sentence.
    I can unload and secure (locked case)my firearm without anyone knowing what'sinside that paper bag.

    Unless you have xray vision you haveno clue what is inside the bag, and in no way can it be a threating manner if you don't know what you're looking at.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    What if your kid needs help getting out of the car or trips and falls. Dad can't help now because he is facing charges(class 6 felony) if he so much as opens the door to his car. Just unload it and stick it in the trunk before you get to the school. An unloaded shotgun in a rack is allowed though
    Just to clarifythe I'm addressing this.
    I'm not statingI carry loaded or unloaded on school property outside of my vehicle.




    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Agent19 wrote:
    Paper bag, sitting right next to me.
    Paper bags like folded newspapers have some interesting/creative uses.

    IMO you are not brandishing if you have your hand inside a paper bag any more than if you have your hand in your pocket. Both eliminate the draw stoke time factor.

    Excuse me, sir; but I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't point your paper bag at me. :?

    If you try this in live fire practice, watch out for flaming bags.

    Yata hey
    I think we need to bring some paper bags and newspapers to the range... :celebrate
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    I think we need to bring some paper bags and newspapers to the range... :celebrate
    IMHO, snubbies work best.



    Popcorn anyone.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Regular Member bom1911's Avatar
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    I like to keep my lunch in a paper bag. I never thought of keeping my sidearm in there as well.

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    Federal law makes it a felony to be within 1000 feet of the outer perimeter of property on which a school is located (with exceptions, such as on one's own property).
    That statute contains an exception for state law governing persons with permit, license, or registration that requires a background check, as Virginia's CHP does.

    Thus, without the CHP, no firearms of any kind within one thousand feet of school property - you're not even allowed to drive down the highway near a school with a gun in the car, even if it's secured, unloaded, and locked in the trunk. (I'd like to see that statute repealed, by the way, I think it's nuts.)

    With the CHP, Virginia law applies, and that allows you to stay on the paved surface inside your car with the gun. The gun is not required to be concealed, though obviously you can't use it intentionally in a way that makes other people feel threatened. There really isn't any statute that I recall that says what you have to do with the gun when you get out of the car. After you've left your car and locked it up, then you're no longer carrying the gun, and the statutes apply to "carrying". I wouldn't leave it in plain sight, though, and expect it to be there when I got back.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    user wrote:
    The gun is not required to be concealed...

    Are you sure about that? The statute reads otherwise.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Are you sure about that? The statute reads otherwise.
    Hear, hear.

    [snip]

    ...or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun...
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    user wrote:
    Federal law makes it a felony to be within 1000 feet of the outer perimeter of property on which a school is located (with exceptions, such as on one's own property).
    That statute contains an exception for state law governing persons with permit, license, or registration that requires a background check, as Virginia's CHP does.

    Thus, without the CHP, no firearms of any kind within one thousand feet of school property - you're not even allowed to drive down the highway near a school with a gun in the car, even if it's secured, unloaded, and locked in the trunk. (I'd like to see that statute repealed, by the way, I think it's nuts.)

    With the CHP, Virginia law applies, and that allows you to stay on the paved surface inside your car with the gun. The gun is not required to be concealed, though obviously you can't use it intentionally in a way that makes other people feel threatened. There really isn't any statute that I recall that says what you have to do with the gun when you get out of the car. After you've left your car and locked it up, then you're no longer carrying the gun, and the statutes apply to "carrying". I wouldn't leave it in plain sight, though, and expect it to be there when I got back.
    Then wouldn't you be in the wrong to leave the firearm in the vehicle and walk away? Your vehicle has a firearm in it and you are no longer there to bear the concealed firearm. Once you exit the vehicle, wouldn't that firearm now be considered to be in transport mode and without an attendant human with CHP with the vehicle, be in violation of federal law as you initially indicated (due to being in a vehicle within 1000' of the school property)?

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    user wrote:
    Federal law makes it a felony to be within 1000 feet of the outer perimeter of property on which a school is located (with exceptions, such as on one's own property).
    That statute contains an exception for state law governing persons with permit, license, or registration that requires a background check, as Virginia's CHP does.

    Thus, without the CHP, no firearms of any kind within one thousand feet of school property - you're not even allowed to drive down the highway near a school with a gun in the car, even if it's secured, unloaded, and locked in the trunk. (I'd like to see that statute repealed, by the way, I think it's nuts.)

    With the CHP, Virginia law applies, and that allows you to stay on the paved surface inside your car with the gun. The gun is not required to be concealed, though obviously you can't use it intentionally in a way that makes other people feel threatened. There really isn't any statute that I recall that says what you have to do with the gun when you get out of the car. After you've left your car and locked it up, then you're no longer carrying the gun, and the statutes apply to "carrying". I wouldn't leave it in plain sight, though, and expect it to be there when I got back.
    There's a school a block from my house. Does this make me a super felon everytime I step foot out my front door? My carrying a firearm has affected no interstate commerce. I obtained my gun in Virginia, and the "firearm" (frame) has no markings of origin other than a trademark logo, model number, and S/N., therefore nothing I've done has anything to do with another state. My gun has never shot anybody at a school. I'm not in a gang, or have anything to do with narcotics.

    It was ruled unconstitutional once already, and the current one has the same purpose...to screw people out of excercising their constitutional rights.

    Here I go again trying to use logic...

    F 'em.

    EDIT: interesting link that shows just how far 1000 ft really is.

    http://www.prisonpolicy.org/zones/thousand_feet.html

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    nova wrote:
    user wrote:
    Federal law makes it a felony to be within 1000 feet of the outer perimeter of property on which a school is located (with exceptions, such as on one's own property).
    That statute contains an exception for state law governing persons with permit, license, or registration that requires a background check, as Virginia's CHP does.

    Thus, without the CHP, no firearms of any kind within one thousand feet of school property - you're not even allowed to drive down the highway near a school with a gun in the car, even if it's secured, unloaded, and locked in the trunk. (I'd like to see that statute repealed, by the way, I think it's nuts.)

    With the CHP, Virginia law applies, and that allows you to stay on the paved surface inside your car with the gun. The gun is not required to be concealed, though obviously you can't use it intentionally in a way that makes other people feel threatened. There really isn't any statute that I recall that says what you have to do with the gun when you get out of the car. After you've left your car and locked it up, then you're no longer carrying the gun, and the statutes apply to "carrying". I wouldn't leave it in plain sight, though, and expect it to be there when I got back.
    There's a school a block from my house. Does this make me a super felon everytime I step foot out my front door? My carrying a firearm has affected no interstate commerce. I obtained my gun in Virginia, and the "firearm" (frame) has no markings of origin other than a trademark logo, model number, and S/N., therefore nothing I've done has anything to do with another state. My gun has never shot anybody at a school. I'm not in a gang, or have anything to do with narcotics.

    It was ruled unconstitutional once already, and the current one has the same purpose...to screw people out of excercising their constitutional rights.

    Here I go again trying to use logic...

    F 'em.
    ...
    Yes, you're well, not necessarily a "super" felon, and, given the presumption of innocence, not a felon at all (no harm no foul), but you could spend five years in Talledega if someone wants to "get" you. Not watching the races, neither.

    I'm with you on that. After it was ruled unconstitutional, Congress added "findings" to the statute about how guns move in interstate commerce, the states are powerless to do anything about guns, gangs are using drugs near schools while in possession of guns, and the states can't stop 'em. Like this statute is going to help. Anyway, the constitutional challenge was on the basis of authority to act; so they added some drivel about interstate commerce and crime affecting interstate commerce. I don't think it helps, but there it is. It would be best to repeal it.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    wylde007 wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    Are you sure about that?* The statute reads otherwise.
    Hear, hear.

    [snip]

    ...or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun...
    Y'all are quite right, I stand corrected.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  23. #23
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    user wrote:
    nova wrote:
    user wrote:
    Federal law makes it a felony to be within 1000 feet of the outer perimeter of property on which a school is located (with exceptions, such as on one's own property).
    That statute contains an exception for state law governing persons with permit, license, or registration that requires a background check, as Virginia's CHP does.

    Thus, without the CHP, no firearms of any kind within one thousand feet of school property - you're not even allowed to drive down the highway near a school with a gun in the car, even if it's secured, unloaded, and locked in the trunk. (I'd like to see that statute repealed, by the way, I think it's nuts.)

    With the CHP, Virginia law applies, and that allows you to stay on the paved surface inside your car with the gun. The gun is not required to be concealed, though obviously you can't use it intentionally in a way that makes other people feel threatened. There really isn't any statute that I recall that says what you have to do with the gun when you get out of the car. After you've left your car and locked it up, then you're no longer carrying the gun, and the statutes apply to "carrying". I wouldn't leave it in plain sight, though, and expect it to be there when I got back.
    There's a school a block from my house. Does this make me a super felon everytime I step foot out my front door? My carrying a firearm has affected no interstate commerce. I obtained my gun in Virginia, and the "firearm" (frame) has no markings of origin other than a trademark logo, model number, and S/N., therefore nothing I've done has anything to do with another state. My gun has never shot anybody at a school. I'm not in a gang, or have anything to do with narcotics.

    It was ruled unconstitutional once already, and the current one has the same purpose...to screw people out of excercising their constitutional rights.

    Here I go again trying to use logic...

    F 'em.
    ...
    Yes, you're well, not necessarily a "super" felon, and, given the presumption of innocence, not a felon at all (no harm no foul), but you could spend five years in Talledega if someone wants to "get" you. Not watching the races, neither.

    I'm with you on that. After it was ruled unconstitutional, Congress added "findings" to the statute about how guns move in interstate commerce, the states are powerless to do anything about guns, gangs are using drugs near schools while in possession of guns, and the states can't stop 'em. Like this statute is going to help. Anyway, the constitutional challenge was on the basis of authority to act; so they added some drivel about interstate commerce and crime affecting interstate commerce. I don't think it helps, but there it is. It would be best to repeal it.
    That's right...I admit to nothing other than living near a school.

    I've always wondered though, who can actually get you on the GFSZ act violation? If the feds say that local law enforcement can't enforce federal immigration laws, does that mean local gov't can't enforce federal gun laws? Or is it only apply to the ones they pick and choose to enforce? :?

    In other words, say I'm pulled over for any reason (say a traffic violation) within 1000ft of whatever they call a "school zone". If I'm not charged with any other crime, could they arrest me for carrying within the 1000ft zone (which isn't marked or designated in any way)?

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    I don't think there are any prosecutions under the Federal law. I am much more concerned about Virginia Law.

    So I drive an SUV (no trunk) and have a CHP. Before coming onto school property I exit vehicle, un-holster firearm, remove magazine, clear chamber, load round back into magazine, place unloaded pistol and magazine in a locked metal container, circle back around to drivers seat, drive onto school property, exit vehicle, attend parent teacher conference...

    Questions:
    1) I am now in full compliance with Virginia state laws?
    2) Does it have to be unloaded?
    3) Does it have to be in the back of the vehicle, or is a locked box in the front sufficient?
    4) What a PIA. (Not really a question.)

  25. #25
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    Fenris wrote:
    I don't think there are any prosecutions under the Federal law. I am much more concerned about Virginia Law.

    So I drive an SUV (no trunk) and have a CHP. Before coming onto school property I exit vehicle, un-holster firearm, remove magazine, clear chamber, load round back into magazine, place unloaded pistol and magazine in a locked metal container, circle back around to drivers seat, drive onto school property, exit vehicle, attend parent teacher conference...

    Questions:
    1) I am now in full compliance with Virginia state laws?
    2) Does it have to be unloaded?
    3) Does it have to be in the back of the vehicle, or is a locked box in the front sufficient?
    4) What a PIA. (Not really a question.)
    You are correct. In vehicles with no trunk you must have it not "readily accessible." Everything is legal as per your explanation I believe.

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